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Old 01-25-2010, 11:35 AM   #1
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Default WHY?

Why do we get all excited when a new brand shows up with a so called new design ? Do not get me wrong, competition is good, but is there enough copy cats out there? how many copy's of Novarossi motors are out there? How about buggy's? do they all work well? we all know that driver's skill and setup is 90% of the equation, what gets me going is the to the market or fairly new players, with no R&D, minimum Q.A, selling copy's of outdated equipment and calling it a new design......WTF. But the copy cat manufactures aren't the ones to blaim, but rather the uninformed, wana be racer that buys into it and then raves on how is $220.00 motor blows away a brand name motor, well lets look at it assuming one brand name and one copy cat, all tuning anf fuel beeing the same the brand name motor will outlast and outperfom the copy cat, then we hear ho for two hundred dollars i can get a new motor and the rebuild for a brand name costs more, well I have been using bran name motors and kits for a long long time, and with motors as long as you fallow the manufactures recomendations they are powerfull and last ver, very long I have motors with over 15 gallons still going strong. Wana run a copycat fine do it, just don't brag about how god they are.
The new Mustang Boss is a sports car, and in the 1/4 mille faster than any exotic car, but it will never be a Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc.
What I am try to say is apreciate thing for what they are, don't make them look better than what they really are.

Ok I am done with my rant
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:20 PM   #2
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I'm not really sure what the point of that rant is after trying to figure out what you said in half of it....so I'm not really sure which "copy cat" you are referring to....would you like to clarify since it's pretty obvious that 1 or more in particular have got you heated.

With that said....I tend to agree with you on certain things, but you also need to realize that not everything is a "copy" of something else.

Case in point...Alpha Plus engines. Sorry that was the first thing that came to mind when you mentioned $220 engine.. It seems a lot of haters seem to think they are rebadged GO engines....or copies of this....or copies of that. They are in fact their own entity....their own design. Yes one or more of the engineers worked for GO Engines and probably utilized what he learned while working there to BETTER the design in his own way. I think this is a GOOD thing for this hobby/sport.

The more competition the better I say. You have 15 gallons on a name brand engine. Congratulations! Some guys also get 15 gallons out of their $200 engines. So which one is better? That is such a loaded question. Maybe your driving style suits a NR Toro Nero like a glove.....will that be the "best" engine for me? Probably not. Maybe I prefer an RB instead...so I think that is "best".

You know what they say about opinions.....

So yes while I agree copycatting things can suck (iPhone clones anyone?)....I do not think that all things that happens to be inexpensive should be lumped into the "clone" category and called junk.

You may have the budget to go drop $400+ on an engine for a single season....I do not. So I for one am glad there are competitive engines in the $200 bracket.

Another great example are Zippy LIPOs....inexpensive and loved by just about everyone. Also 1/3rd the cost of a "brand name" battery. Which is better? Depends on who ya ask....some Zippy guys run for 2 years without issues...others have crappy luck and only last a few races. Doesn't mean all Zippys suck...

I guess I'll end my rant here....
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:35 PM   #3
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I do not want to mention names and start a flame war, I might not have made my point very clear....and I understand not all afordable motors are copy's, my rant is with the wana be copycats, they all know who they are.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:40 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by RAlmeida View Post
Why do we get all excited when a new brand shows up with a so called new design ? Do not get me wrong, competition is good, but is there enough copy cats out there? how many copy's of Novarossi motors are out there?
I'm pretty sure Novarossi engines are updated copies of things that have been made (in various sizes, and originally for aircraft use) for 50+ years. I'm not specifically singling out Novarossi... and I do think they make a good product... but you're way out in left field if you think they "invented" the glow ignition 2 stroke model engine. In fact, I'm pretty sure OS has been at it longer... Cox... McCoy... ThunderTiger... many many more. I understand your point, but your example is one of the copycats, not the originator. Did they improve on older stuff? Yup. Can others also improve on older stuff? (maybe even on theirs?) Also possible.

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How about buggy's? do they all work well? we all know that driver's skill and setup is 90% of the equation, what gets me going is the to the market or fairly new players, with no R&D, minimum Q.A, selling copy's of outdated equipment and calling it a new design......WTF.
There is some of that... and there are some things that are "game changers." Note that cream and crap both float to the top. Use the tools between your ears to determine the difference.

Quote:
But the copy cat manufactures aren't the ones to blaim, but rather the uninformed, wana be racer that buys into it and then raves on how is $220.00 motor blows away a brand name motor, well lets look at it assuming one brand name and one copy cat, all tuning anf fuel beeing the same the brand name motor will outlast and outperfom the copy cat,
So the old OS/Cox/McCoy/ThunderTiger/etc motors will outlast a Novarossi? Or did you mean something different? What leads you to this conclusion?

Quote:
then we hear ho for two hundred dollars i can get a new motor and the rebuild for a brand name costs more, well I have been using bran name motors and kits for a long long time, and with motors as long as you fallow the manufactures recomendations they are powerfull and last ver, very long I have motors with over 15 gallons still going strong. Wana run a copycat fine do it, just don't brag about how god they are.
Want to run a more expensive engine? Fine, just don't brag about how good they are.

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The new Mustang Boss is a sports car,
No it isn't. It is a grand touring car.

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and in the 1/4 mille faster than any exotic car,
Any?

Quote:

but it will never be a Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc.
Which means what? How about a Ford GT40? A Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc will never be a Ford... (oops... Aston Martin actually is... in a roundabout way... just like my Jaguar is...)

Quote:
What I am try to say is apreciate thing for what they are, don't make them look better than what they really are.
Good advice. You should listen to it.

Quote:
Ok I am done with my rant
Ok, me too... until next time.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:57 PM   #5
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Which means what? How about a Ford GT40? A Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc will never be a Ford... (oops... Aston Martin actually is... in a roundabout way... just like my Jaguar is...)

Sorry, Ford sold Jag to India and Aston back to the Britts
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RAlmeida View Post
Which means what? How about a Ford GT40? A Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc will never be a Ford... (oops... Aston Martin actually is... in a roundabout way... just like my Jaguar is...)

Sorry, Ford sold Jag to India and Aston back to the Britts
Ok... MY Jaguar was made by a subsidiary of Ford. And SOME Aston Martins are made by a subsidiary of Ford.

Better?

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Old 01-25-2010, 01:33 PM   #7
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Yeah the Ford comments are off base. The Mustang is a screaming value and yes, they can very well beat a Porsche. Go set up a Mustang with Griggs Suspension and you have a good match. And guess what I used to race professionally? Porsches.

The Ford Mustang is a screaming performance value. Especially starting in 2011 when the regular Mustang GT is coming with 411 hp (I think that figure is accurate, if not it is close to that.)

Right now we live in a phenomenal era of performance cars. When you see cars like the Camaro SS (or better yet, the Z/28 coming soon), the CTS-V, Corvetter ZR-1, Mustang Shelby GT 500, Dodge/Chrysler SRT8 & Viper, etc...we have some fine cars coming out of the states. Out of Europe we have the crazy Audi RS6 (not imported to the USA), BMW M3/5/6, AMG Mercedes (Go check out the stats of an AMG SL65!)

Out of Asia we have the GT-R, WRX STI, and EVO....not to mention the Lexus $350K supercar coming out.

There are some crazy performance wars going on and it is GREAT for the consumer. Who ever thought Cadillac could produce the fastest sedan around the Nurburgring when 15 years ago they were making complete crap.

Competition is good, and we can only win from it. How does this translate to RC cars? More competition is good. Do I care if the new shiny buggy has anodized purple and orange parts? Not really. But if it performs at an elite level and pushes the market forward I am all for it!
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:52 PM   #8
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Yeah the Ford comments are off base. The Mustang is a screaming value and yes, they can very well beat a Porsche. Go set up a Mustang with Griggs Suspension and you have a good match. And guess what I used to race professionally? Porsches.

The Ford Mustang is a screaming performance value. Especially starting in 2011 when the regular Mustang GT is coming with 411 hp (I think that figure is accurate, if not it is close to that.)

Right now we live in a phenomenal era of performance cars. When you see cars like the Camaro SS (or better yet, the Z/28 coming soon), the CTS-V, Corvetter ZR-1, Mustang Shelby GT 500, Dodge/Chrysler SRT8 & Viper, etc...we have some fine cars coming out of the states. Out of Europe we have the crazy Audi RS6 (not imported to the USA), BMW M3/5/6, AMG Mercedes (Go check out the stats of an AMG SL65!)

Out of Asia we have the GT-R, WRX STI, and EVO....not to mention the Lexus $350K supercar coming out.

There are some crazy performance wars going on and it is GREAT for the consumer. Who ever thought Cadillac could produce the fastest sedan around the Nurburgring when 15 years ago they were making complete crap.

Competition is good, and we can only win from it. How does this translate to RC cars? More competition is good. Do I care if the new shiny buggy has anodized purple and orange parts? Not really. But if it performs at an elite level and pushes the market forward I am all for it!
I got a yellow 993 C4S with 36489 original km on it. Was that a good Porsche?
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:52 PM   #9
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Default Some of the stuff is crap

What I hate to see is some kid showing up at the track with a brand-x buggy he bought for a few hundred thinking that buying cheap new would be better than a good used roller. These cars are crap. I'm not going to name names but you guys know what I'm talking about. Some of their ad's started showing up on my videos on youtube and it really pissed me off. Not much I can do about it. A kid will get stuck with one of these pieces of crap get discouraged and drop the hobby. When people ask me for favorites I always refer them to a good web site on R/C. Tell them to ask before they buy the cheap crap. They aren't going to know inexpensive but good from crap. They just see their dream buggy for 100's of dollars less than it really costs for a car thats fit to race. No way to stop these kids from getting ripped off than to educate them whenever possible. A lot of kids come up to me and ask about whats good etc. And comments in forums and pm's. By sending them to a decent forum where they can learn and get decent advice I'm hoping to do my part to make sure these rip-off kits go away.

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Old 01-25-2010, 01:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by RAlmeida View Post
I got a yellow 993 C4S with 36489 original km on it. Was that a good Porsche?
The C4S is definitely a great car.

I would always go for one of the lighter 911s myself. Like the 964 911 RS America, or the new GT3. Something like the C4S would definitely be more livable day to day.

I don't think they ever made a "bad" 911. I am even a big fan of the ugly 914.

The only few Porsches I never liked that much were the 912 and 924. But I wouldn't mind owning a 924 Turbo. Hell I would love to own a regular 924 or 912 too, they are just "lesser" Porsches in my mind.
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:59 PM   #11
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I got a yellow 993 C4S with 36489 original km on it. Was that a good Porsche?
PS: Yellow is my favorite color on a 993.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by griz11 View Post
What I hate to see is some kid showing up at the track with a brand-x buggy he bought for a few hundred thinking that buying cheap new would be better than a good used roller. These cars are crap. I'm not going to name names but you guys know what I'm talking about. Some of their ad's started showing up on my videos on youtube and it really pissed me off. Not much I can do about it. A kid will get stuck with one of these pieces of crap get discouraged and drop the hobby. When people ask me for favorites I always refer them to a good web site on R/C. Tell them to ask before they buy the cheap crap. They aren't going to know inexpensive but good from crap. They just see their dream buggy for 100's of dollars less than it really costs for a car thats fit to race. No way to stop these kids from getting ripped off than to educate them whenever possible. A lot of kids come up to me and ask about whats good etc. And comments in forums and pm's. By sending them to a decent forum where they can learn and get decent advice I'm hoping to do my part to make sure these rip-off kits go away.



Griz
Thank you, you explained it better than me, that was what my original rant was about.
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:13 PM   #13
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Thank you, you explained it better than me, that was what my original rant was about.

THAT I can agree with. What your original post sounded like was "$220 engines have got to be crap, because they don't say Novarossi on them."
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:14 PM   #14
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This thread has totally derailed to the point I'll make some wayward comments.

There are many many RC engines that all are developed around a similar design. Copies? Sure; they happen. But until the "copies" start using the same quality alloys and quality controls...then they're just cheap rip offs. I think this is more of the OP's point rather than just items "of similar design".

Some things are just a given due to constraints of electronics size (servos) and powerplants (engines/pipes/fuel tank...pretty much a constant design parameter).

So with those limitations and whatnot there's only so much "innovation" you can cram into a confined space.

But when ya'll digressed into the Mustang discussion you're in dangerous territory with a Ford nut

When Ford introduced the FR500C into Grand-AM in '05...the world didn't know what happened. A pony car turned world beater that now holds multiple championships. And no crazy suspension to be found other than coilovers/shocks.

BTW...Griggs has filed for CH. 11 bankruptcy. I hate it for Bruce, but there aren't a whoooooole lotta folks that are going to reach for his products, especially in an economic downturn. I hate it for the industry and for him, but there's too many viable companies in the mix now for him to stay on a bit of a high horse. Hopefully he can get things straightened out.

For historical purposes...the original Ford GT-40 was a log truck that surprised everyone. And now, a new Ford GT will not be an Italian piece of artwork like a Ferrari...but you let me know how ya like your Ford GT with a pair of twin turbos and 1000+HP. I'll take the 1000HP GT
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:17 PM   #15
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PS: Yellow is my favorite color on a 993.
It is a garage queen, I drive it maybe 1000km per year to shows, if it does not interfering with my rc
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