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Old 01-20-2010, 12:32 PM   #1
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Default pipe for toro nero

i'm looking for some advice. i have a dynamite 053 pipe and a jammin jp3. which pipe would be a better choice for a toro nero. now i know there may be better pipes for this motor out there but this is what i have to work with at the moment. i run a med size track for the most part. next month i will be goin to motorama which was a much larger track than i usually run on. so which pipe will b better for the med size track and whats better for the larger track? forgot i say it will be in a truggy.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:37 PM   #2
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The 9853 is perfect for the truggy, I don't know about the jp pipes, but the 9853 works perfect in the toro....
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:40 PM   #3
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Between those two, I put my money on the JP3
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:12 PM   #4
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I have done a lot of testing and also a lot of porting work with these engines and I have found the 9901ss and 41020 header to work the best for low and midrange performance and the 9901ss with the 41021 for more mid to upper end. I also have run it with the JP1, JP3, 007, 053, 2060, 2035 and out of all of those the JP1 and 3 worked the best. I found the 053 tuned section too short and restrictive for the longer stroke. The JP1 and 3 have longer and bigger volume chambers which the longer stroke and/or bigger bore engines need to scavage. The JP1's expansion chamber is about 10mm longer than the 3 which will give it more low end performance. I will be at motorama as well and will have a bunch of pipes and what not with me so come see me if you want to try out a few combinations if the JP3 or 053 isn't working to your liking.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:48 PM   #5
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I have done a lot of testing and also a lot of porting work with these engines and I have found the 9901ss and 41020 header to work the best for low and midrange performance and the 9901ss with the 41021 for more mid to upper end. I also have run it with the JP1, JP3, 007, 053, 2060, 2035 and out of all of those the JP1 and 3 worked the best. I found the 053 tuned section too short and restrictive for the longer stroke. The JP1 and 3 have longer and bigger volume chambers which the longer stroke and/or bigger bore engines need to scavage. The JP1's expansion chamber is about 10mm longer than the 3 which will give it more low end performance. I will be at motorama as well and will have a bunch of pipes and what not with me so come see me if you want to try out a few combinations if the JP3 or 053 isn't working to your liking.
so your saying the jp3 over the 053. once i have some $ i want to get a new pipe. i was thinking about the 9901ss.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:44 PM   #6
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In a nutshell yes. It isn't the best pipe for the engine but it is the better of two evils. I will have pipes for sale at the track so if you decide you want one, I will have some. You can even try it before you buy it.
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:18 PM   #7
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In a nutshell yes. It isn't the best pipe for the engine but it is the better of two evils. I will have pipes for sale at the track so if you decide you want one, I will have some. You can even try it before you buy it.
ok cool. thanks for the help
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:24 PM   #8
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What would be the difference in fuel mileage between the 41020 and 41021 headers w/ the 9901ss? Also, has anyone tried a DYN007HT on the Toro Nero? I've ran the 053 and 086, it liked the 086 better, but still seems to lack a little in the fuel mileage dept.
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:49 PM   #9
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Neither one really gives it great mileage. The 21 is 12.5mm shorter and will smoothen out the bottom while the 20 will give it more punch down low but will lose a little rpm on top. The stock toro gets in and around 8 minutes give or take a little depending on what pipe is on it and who's tuning it. The 007 is so close in spec with the 053 that it is hard to tell the difference between the two. I had both and on just about every engine I ran them on, they were almost dead even so I sold them as I had no need to have pipes that worked the same as the next. If you step up to my race ported toro, the engine will get 930-11 minutes again depending on pipe, tune and application and it will have quite a bit more low end torque and throttle response but with the raised port heights and intake timing adjustments, the engine will actually increase on top without losing the low end performance which will allow you to use the longer pipe which will not only keep the low end where it should be, it will also allow the engine to scavage properly increasing its efficiency giving you the extended run times needed and desired by racers worldwide.
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Old 01-20-2010, 08:28 PM   #10
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Neither one really gives it great mileage. The 21 is 12.5mm shorter and will smoothen out the bottom while the 20 will give it more punch down low but will lose a little rpm on top. The stock toro gets in and around 8 minutes give or take a little depending on what pipe is on it and who's tuning it. The 007 is so close in spec with the 053 that it is hard to tell the difference between the two. I had both and on just about every engine I ran them on, they were almost dead even so I sold them as I had no need to have pipes that worked the same as the next. If you step up to my race ported toro, the engine will get 930-11 minutes again depending on pipe, tune and application and it will have quite a bit more low end torque and throttle response but with the raised port heights and intake timing adjustments, the engine will actually increase on top without losing the low end performance which will allow you to use the longer pipe which will not only keep the low end where it should be, it will also allow the engine to scavage properly increasing its efficiency giving you the extended run times needed and desired by racers worldwide.
can an engine b modded at anytime or does it have to be new?
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:56 AM   #11
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If you want to hear it sing; msr 1005. My good friend tried this on his this past weekend and I drove it and it was literally the fastest motor I've driven but it was controllable. U tend to want to overdrive it a bit because it is so nasty on the pipe. He pitted comfortably on 10mins on a med indoor track with low-med traction. The truck was a mugen 6t.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:18 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by PowerHouse View Post
Neither one really gives it great mileage. The 21 is 12.5mm shorter and will smoothen out the bottom while the 20 will give it more punch down low but will lose a little rpm on top. The stock toro gets in and around 8 minutes give or take a little depending on what pipe is on it and who's tuning it. The 007 is so close in spec with the 053 that it is hard to tell the difference between the two. I had both and on just about every engine I ran them on, they were almost dead even so I sold them as I had no need to have pipes that worked the same as the next. If you step up to my race ported toro, the engine will get 930-11 minutes again depending on pipe, tune and application and it will have quite a bit more low end torque and throttle response but with the raised port heights and intake timing adjustments, the engine will actually increase on top without losing the low end performance which will allow you to use the longer pipe which will not only keep the low end where it should be, it will also allow the engine to scavage properly increasing its efficiency giving you the extended run times needed and desired by racers worldwide.

I get 10 minutes out of my stock Toro with an un matched lrp header and a jp racing on road based pipe (2031).... I have more power (bottom /mid/ and top) than you can poke a stick at

Funny thing is i often see people using nova tuned pipes and they cant get the run time and never seem to have the bottom end power i do








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Old 01-21-2010, 10:15 AM   #13
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can an engine b modded at anytime or does it have to be new?
It can modded at anytime but the less run time the better. The more runtime on it, the more chance of needing parts or additional services to make it run properly.

You can definately try every pipe out there to see what happens and I know some will work better than others but until you are in business and get to see what hundreds of people do and their habits, you will understand why I am trying to make the Novarossi pipes work with the Novarossi engines. I have also tried other brands and designs with good results but most, not all, but most people when purchasing something, want the matching equipment from the same manufacturer so it becomes my job to modify the engine's to run even better with the pipes they were intended for.
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:00 PM   #14
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I have done a lot of testing and also a lot of porting work with these engines and I have found the 9901ss and 41020 header to work the best for low and midrange performance and the 9901ss with the 41021 for more mid to upper end. I also have run it with the JP1, JP3, 007, 053, 2060, 2035 and out of all of those the JP1 and 3 worked the best. I found the 053 tuned section too short and restrictive for the longer stroke. The JP1 and 3 have longer and bigger volume chambers which the longer stroke and/or bigger bore engines need to scavage. The JP1's expansion chamber is about 10mm longer than the 3 which will give it more low end performance. I will be at motorama as well and will have a bunch of pipes and what not with me so come see me if you want to try out a few combinations if the JP3 or 053 isn't working to your liking.
I have similar expereince as well. But, it also depends on your driving style. In general, if you want to have a stronger low end performance, you want to use 41020 ( a longer header). I only tried 9853 and 9901 on Toro Nero. I like the combo of 41020 and 9853.
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:26 PM   #15
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Then you can definitely are wher I am coming from as you have also tested similar waters. When I race port a toro, I retime the intake and exhaust port timing and I also stuff the case and with the case stuffed, the engine maintains higher internal velocities and pressure and the larger volume pipe responds well to those changes. If you see running a stock toro, the slower velocity will tend to favor the smaller volume pipe when comparing the 9901 and 9853 which may be why you prefer that combo. Nothing wrong with either one. It just depends on who is using it and what they want out of it. Is the 9901ss and 41020 the end all be all, not by any means, but it is definately a good base line setup for this engine to see what it needs to suit your style.
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