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Old 04-29-2010, 04:12 PM   #16
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tell him like it is jammin.

basically the vspec crank is garbage and the ninja crank is not only better, but does circles around the vspec crank. The longevity is tripled and the performance is a noticable upgrade. I was very impressed when i dropped it in my vspec. The speed is at least comparable if not better.

in my opinion, o.s. might have made a mistake making the ninja motor. its a much better engine for almost the same price. I also really like the 5 port sleeve over the 3 port vspec.

after all, they did quite making the vspec.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:17 PM   #17
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yes the speed crank will fit. and yes it is what should be there in the first place.

the stock vspec rod can work however. provided you drill an oiling hole in the rod, a 1mm hole should suffice. the hole is to face the intake side.

I have run my one pro-mod vspec that way when I needed a rod quick and all available was a stock vspec rod. 4 gallons and no problems.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by johnny t View Post
yes the speed crank will fit. and yes it is what should be there in the first place.

the stock vspec rod can work however. provided you drill an oiling hole in the rod, a 1mm hole should suffice. the hole is to face the intake side.

I have run my one pro-mod vspec that way when I needed a rod quick and all available was a stock vspec rod. 4 gallons and no problems.
Sounds like a lot of work for a connecting rod. I don't see a problem with it if you have the equipment to drill a hole that precisely. At the same time though, the speed/ninja JX rod is a better rod even not considering the oil hole. It is much stronger and is knife edged.

By the way I completely agree about the crank. The v-spec crank is garbage. They should at least include something like the JX crank in the v-spec.
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Old 04-29-2010, 06:55 PM   #19
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not really, and precision is not required. just something for oil to dribble into the journal.

I have drill presses and a milling machine at my disposal. but all I used was my cordless screwdriver. 5 minute job tops.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:08 PM   #20
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not really, and precision is not required. just something for oil to dribble into the journal.

I have drill presses and a milling machine at my disposal. but all I used was my cordless screwdriver. 5 minute job tops.
Yea but your Awesome Johnny, he also made custom shocks and towers fora xray 808
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #21
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So the VZ-R & VZ-B and the Ninja JX are pretty much drop in replacement parts for one and other. I assume the cylinder from a JX doesn't work, or at least doesn't work as well as the speed kit due to the 5 port design not really matching the internal structure in the engine block? (I guess it could have different timings to, the VZ-R has, and still works, apparently.)

You have all been very helpful. Thanks.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:48 AM   #22
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So the VZ-R & VZ-B and the Ninja JX are pretty much drop in replacement parts for one and other. I assume the cylinder from a JX doesn't work, or at least doesn't work as well as the speed kit due to the 5 port design not really matching the internal structure in the engine block? (I guess it could have different timings to, the VZ-R has, and still works, apparently.)

You have all been very helpful. Thanks.
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Even the 5 port sleeve is compatible.
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Old 04-30-2010, 04:57 AM   #23
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Even the 5 port sleeve is compatible.
indeed!
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:39 AM   #24
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Dreaux clearly stated that he preferred the 5 port ninja sleeve over the 3 (?) port Speed one. Is everyone agreeing, and this would then be based on what? RPM range seams to be the same, max power output the same & at the same rpm as my v-spec documentation states... Better fuel efficiency?
I assume it's stock, speed, speed II, and then ninja in order of preference? (And possibly, performance?)

If one were to at least for now, run with a Ninja crank, conrod, sleve & piston, would the 21C carb provided with the stock V-spec be an issue? It only has the 8 & 9mm airflow restrictors, so i assume the engine would run as a cross-breed ninja on a "wide or flat track"? I guess what I'm asking is if the 21C carb is such a bad choice that it will impede the ability to tune the engine, or if it simply cant dispense enough fuel quick enough making the engine run to lean, and take damage from that.
(I found a comparison on the 21H & 21J carb's and they apparently were identical in performance. The 21C LOOKS like the 21H, but i thought I'd ask, better safe, then sorry, should anyone know. Both my carbs are as good as new, so if i don't have to switch, I'll run them for another summer.)

I got to say you guys are amazing when it comes to answering all my dumb questions, and i can only say "thank you".
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:02 AM   #25
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Dreaux wheres a link to your Frankenstein engine or is dat top secret now.lolol
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:36 AM   #26
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Dreaux wheres a link to your Frankenstein engine or is dat top secret now.lolol
I love it when people drop gold nugets like this. The thread is... Turns out i cant post links. Well, at least i figure it is the thread you meant.
(rctech.net/forum/nitro-off-road/383729-my-ninja-vspec-experiment-you-might-surprised) www, and .html at your usual places...

And with that i pretty much have been told the "best" configuration is a
Speed block, all JX internals, exept the crank, and Speed or JX carb.
So i guess i'm going to have to try and locate a speed crank cheap, or i'd end up with the second.. no, third best config. Second best being the above but a stock block, and third best being ... Darn it, i'll end up at fourth. Third would be a speed block, and a JX crank, and my choise will be a stock block, and a jx crank. Ebay, list a dirt cheap speed crank... please... *goes searching*

Again, HUGE thank you to everyone posting here, even if they had no idea they were helpfull.

;- )
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Dreaux clearly stated that he preferred the 5 port ninja sleeve over the 3 (?) port Speed one. Is everyone agreeing, and this would then be based on what? RPM range seams to be the same, max power output the same & at the same rpm as my v-spec documentation states... Better fuel efficiency?
I assume it's stock, speed, speed II, and then ninja in order of preference? (And possibly, performance?)

If one were to at least for now, run with a Ninja crank, conrod, sleve & piston, would the 21C carb provided with the stock V-spec be an issue? It only has the 8 & 9mm airflow restrictors, so i assume the engine would run as a cross-breed ninja on a "wide or flat track"? I guess what I'm asking is if the 21C carb is such a bad choice that it will impede the ability to tune the engine, or if it simply cant dispense enough fuel quick enough making the engine run to lean, and take damage from that.
(I found a comparison on the 21H & 21J carb's and they apparently were identical in performance. The 21C LOOKS like the 21H, but i thought I'd ask, better safe, then sorry, should anyone know. Both my carbs are as good as new, so if i don't have to switch, I'll run them for another summer.)

I got to say you guys are amazing when it comes to answering all my dumb questions, and i can only say "thank you".
B!

I actually don't agree. I prefer the v-spec or speed 3 port sleeve over the 5 port ninja sleeve. It will get you better fuel economy. Power will be about the same.

The speed and speed II use the same piston/sleeve. The v-spec sleeve is close to a speed sleeve, but not quite the same. Some people even prefer the v-spec sleeve over the speed sleeve. The speed and v-spec crankcases are almost the same. The speed case has a bit more fine machining inside and uses a different carb pinch bolt.

The 21c carb should be perfectly adequate. I would pick up a couple smaller restrictors. Say like a 6 and 7mm. You can use the aluminum speed or ninja restrictors in the 21c or pretty much any other brand(novarossi, GRP, RB, Go tech, etc...)
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:56 PM   #28
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I actually don't agree. I prefer the v-spec or speed 3 port sleeve over the 5 port ninja sleeve. It will get you better fuel economy. Power will be about the same.
I'm just guessing here, but "about the same" in this case actually means power will be ever so slightly to the JX side, while fuel economy makes it lean against the speed kit? Trying to figure out what i should get, and why, so to speak. It IS a bit of a monetary issue as well for me, since I'm far from broke, but still nowhere near rich.

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The speed and speed II use the same piston/sleeve.
So whats the difference on the sleeves in the 23753020 & 23753030 kits? Or the 70 buck price difference on the parts on tower is just for the rod that is included in the "30" kit? (Not all that impossible, i guess) But then what is the difference on the speed and the speed II versions of the engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMMINKRAZY View Post
The v-spec sleeve is close to a speed sleeve, but not quite the same.
I'm guessing timings are identical but that the speed version is a bit more machined to obtain a better performance during the scavenge sequence of the stroke?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMMINKRAZY View Post
Some people even prefer the v-spec sleeve over the speed sleeve.
Um... Now you lost me. Why? Fuel economy at the cost of peak performance? You mean a speed crank & conrod is a more valuable upgrade then cylinder & piston? Or should one run a speed piston and a stock sleeve? Sorry, I'm trying to figure out the best bang for your buck scenario, i guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMMINKRAZY View Post
The 21c carb should be perfectly adequate. I would pick up a couple smaller restrictors. Say like a 6 and 7mm. You can use the aluminum speed or ninja restrictors in the 21c or pretty much any other brand(novarossi, GRP, RB, Go tech, etc...)
Useful info. Thanks. Since I'm more of a basher then a racer anyway, i like the idea of fuel economy over performance. But a bit of both IS the best flavor, as always.

Funny, i just noticed that the Vz-R is a 7 port sleeve item. And it's actually quite cheap. Sidetracking, sorry.

I'm not a stranger to bringing out the hacksaw, and chisels, and make my own engine mods. But there is nothing like the work of a pro, and well, a factory mod is pretty much what you get with the speed version. But if the most important upgrade in the speed is actually the crank, then I'll rather get 2 cranks, then one crank, and one set of speed or JX Piston & sleeves. That would put both my V-specs at the same level, and i should get at least a summer out of the two of them b4 i need to have the sleeves pinched. (At which point I'm going to be buying a pair of new pistons & sleeves anyway, just to keep me rolling, but that postpones that cost at least 60 months...)

Over all I'm just trying to figure out what parts does what, how much, and what is a worthwhile upgrade. Sorry if i seam a bit slow, or long texted. ;- )
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:22 PM   #29
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The crank is really what makes the speed what it is. Everything else is pretty much just a tweaked version of the v-spec stuff. The crank is by FAR the biggest upgrade for a stock v-spec. Again connecting rods are needed too. Might as well throw a set of TKO ceramic bearings in them too.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:17 PM   #30
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My V-spec's already have ceramic bearings, or rather, hybrid bearings. Inner and outer race (Is that the right name?) is steel, and balls are ceramic (Si3N4) and they are classified "G5" what ever that means... NO idea, i guess it could be a measurement of how round they are? Bearing play are C3 or CM, don't remember. It's what the manufacturer recommended, but then, what do i know, it could be all wrong.... It seams to be working, haven't broken it yet. Not TKO, but KLB bearings.

Anyway, looks like i've had my mind made up. I'm going to get a speed crank, and a pair of cheap JX/speed conrods.
When i pick out a new cylinder sleeve & piston kit for the end of the summer service I'll try and get a Ninja & a speed, so i can see which i like better. And i think just for kicks I'll try and get a hold on a VZ-R kit as well. I can see people when they go "dude what the heck is wrong with your eng... Whoa" as the revs get in to the upper midrange and the VZ-R comes to life. (nothing nothing nothing and suddenly all the power at once. And with a speed crank... Anyone tried?) But it really wont make for a good buggy kit on tracks that aren't really flat, and with long straights.

Unless something new gets put on the table i think that was all for me, right now. Again, a HUGE thank you for your participation, much appreciated.
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