R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-09-2010, 01:00 PM   #1
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,657
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default Has the industry taken nitro buggies as far as it can take it?

I was thinking (this has nothing to do with nitro engines), What else is left to be done to nitro buggies to make them better?

I have my mugen dialed in, And it handles so awesome, corners on rails and really feels and handles like a real car.

So, what else can be done? Make them lighter? They are plenty lite enough, almost to lite. Better drive train and Diffs? I don't know how much more efficient they can make that. I have even heard the ferroni smart diffs gave no bump in performance.

Durability? quality? Mugen/ xray

Weight distribution, tires, shocks, diffs, just about everything seems to be on a plateau.

I think if anything, the only thing that will change is cheaper kits, and more electric conversions or actual true 1/8 scale electric buggies.

But this is not about electric, it's about nitro.

So what would you do to improve a nitro buggy? I can't think of anything.

Engines? That is a different story.




Oh, i couldn't make my race today
__________________
"You are not understanding the fundamental principles of my fragmented personality"

Mugen
dreaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 01:11 PM   #2
Tech Master
 
Charles Godwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK (England)
Posts: 1,127
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

There's always improvements to a car. 1:1 cars are exactly the same. Can't think of a way to improve on it or change it... That's why there are designers . Probably got 2 or 3 ideas in the pipeline ready for future cars without us knowing
__________________
DXR | CML Distribution | Paint by Turnip Paint | TKRgraphics.com
Charles Godwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 01:34 PM   #3
Tech Elite
 
DPowers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where the fast guys are
Posts: 3,528
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

There is always room for improvement on anything to make the performance better when the losi first come out it was the cream of the crop and now there are so many cars that are just as good as the losi and they will just get better.
DPowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 01:50 PM   #4
Tech Master
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Richmond, Ky
Posts: 1,069
Trader Rating: 43 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPowers View Post
There is always room for improvement on anything to make the performance better when the losi first come out it was the cream of the crop and now there are so many cars that are just as good as the losi and they will just get better.
+1

in my opinion i see the technology just getting a good momentum going, i look for some good things to come in the next few years!
__________________
www.coyotehobbies.com-Owner
Brian Alderman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 02:27 PM   #5
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 365
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Competition from electric buggies is getting stiffer and stiffer. The Nitro buggy's center of gravity needs to be as low as the low CG electric's. Maybe
a .21 version of the old OS Lay Down .12 enginge. Nitro engine/clutch power traction control needs work. Of course shocks and suspension could always be improved.
topcat-lll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 04:37 PM   #6
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 120
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

The industry is not even close to tapping into the technology thats out there and being used in the upper levels of motorsports. I think over time more and more of the technology will find its way into RC car racing. A lot of the technology thats used in motorsports is developed in the aerospace industry whether it be materials or composites etc. Then it usually trickles down from there with racing usually getting their hands on this technoloy first. Over time you will have more entrepreneur's bringing this technology to our industry.
vivid concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 04:41 PM   #7
Tech Adept
 
TRArena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 155
Default

Similar things have been said over time with all forms of technology and yet they keep getting bigger, smaller, faster, lighter....Future improvements are more liklely to be evolution rather than revolution. Even better quality alloys and composites for same or less cost, slight geometry changes (like serpent/durango apparent rear shock mounting positions) may be the type of things that gain more popularity. Tyre tread pattens and compounds are always being tested (or copied in the case of some manufacturers! ) Development priority in terms of classes will be driven by end user demand. The differences between the main manufacturers are likely to be quite subtle and there will no doubt be some cases where changes are made for "new model sake" as opposed to actual performance advantage. The relatively level playing field that currently exists between the leading manufacturers should encourage further product development. Combine this with the need for new entrants to produce something a little different in order to be noticed and you have the basis for an interesting future in 1/8 scale.

Mike.
TRArena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 05:42 PM   #8
Tech Regular
 
aray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 368
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

I think there's always places to go with technology and sport, especially ours.

Crazy and not so crazy stuff like...

- Generally more well thought out engineering
- Super-easily removable diffs, snap-in snap out between heats pit lane
- More easily changed parts, ability to change things like arms during a main without major time loss
- More smartdiff type technology
- Engine management systems? Optimally/continuously tune the engine throughout the run based on telemetry, performance needs, etc.
- (good) Telemetry more common
- Ability to make additional adjustments via radio (a la F1 steering wheel), possibly remote tune hsn/lsn?
- No maintenance, or greatly reduced maintenance
- Permanently lubed and fully sealed bearings good for years, and provide easy indicators of wear when they need replacing (maybe the shield changes colors?)
- Easier to clean, air hose attachment in arms or air channels through chassis
- Adjustable/tunable tire inserts
- More advanced tire patterns, how about one that can run in mud but not collect mud... (yes im in Florida)

Yes, some are farfetched, but the same would have been said about a 250gb ipod 5 years ago, or a lipo powered rc heli the size of my palm...
aray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 08:48 PM   #9
Tech Regular
 
CKmaxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sask, Canada
Posts: 485
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

All good ideas ^ With respect to nitro engines, I would love to see a lay down .21 with fuel injection. OS did fuel injection years ago already in plane engines and then discontinued it (I think). It is time to adapt that technology to offroad.
CKmaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 08:54 PM   #10
Tech Elite
 
COBRARACING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,300
Default

call me a nut but i think there is way more to go with nitro buggies and truggies like built into the chassi Gyro's for stabilisation,and many more designers are working on upgrades behind closed doors as we speak
__________________
Email : teamcobraracing@gmail.com or ae@hobbywing.com
Repair service Address
Hobbywing Technology Co., Ltd.
4th Floor, 3rd Building, KeLunTe Industrial Park, ShangLiLang, BuLan Road, LongGang District, ShenZhen, China
COBRARACING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 09:35 PM   #11
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,781
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
call me a nut but i think there is way more to go with nitro buggies and truggies like built into the chassi Gyro's for stabilisation,
Illegal. Many of the possible advancements are not possible due to rules rather than technology. Things like traction control, active suspensions, fuel injection, etc. are all possible but banned.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 09:37 PM   #12
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,657
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aray View Post
I think there's always places to go with technology and sport, especially ours.

Crazy and not so crazy stuff like...

- Generally more well thought out engineering
- Super-easily removable diffs, snap-in snap out between heats pit lane
- More easily changed parts, ability to change things like arms during a main without major time loss
- More smartdiff type technology
- Engine management systems? Optimally/continuously tune the engine throughout the run based on telemetry, performance needs, etc.
- (good) Telemetry more common
- Ability to make additional adjustments via radio (a la F1 steering wheel), possibly remote tune hsn/lsn?
- No maintenance, or greatly reduced maintenance
- Permanently lubed and fully sealed bearings good for years, and provide easy indicators of wear when they need replacing (maybe the shield changes colors?)
- Easier to clean, air hose attachment in arms or air channels through chassis
- Adjustable/tunable tire inserts
- More advanced tire patterns, how about one that can run in mud but not collect mud... (yes im in Florida)

Yes, some are farfetched, but the same would have been said about a 250gb ipod 5 years ago, or a lipo powered rc heli the size of my palm...
Man that's some really good ideas. I knew i was wrong. But i just wonder how much more performance can be had. I believe ease of maintenance and interchangeable parts could be better. I really like the idea of tuning your engine with a trim switch.

Good stuff. I think the durability of nitro engines could be better. I think there is a better clutch setup and power delivery as well.

Very interesting this thread is.
__________________
"You are not understanding the fundamental principles of my fragmented personality"

Mugen
dreaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 09:41 PM   #13
Tech Master
 
captain america's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

I don't think we're anywhere close to seeing the limits; not by a long shot. That having been said, one must take into consideration that innovation comes at a price, and by that I mean a financial price, be it in time/man hours or the cost of prototyping various goodies, or materials, or all three. Also, with radical change comes a certain amount of risk, since time/money spent on certain potential "innovations" might not pan-out, or may simply not be viable commercially.

Second, current racing rules prohibit certain exotic materials or devices from being used as a means of levelling the playing field, and also to keep costs under control.

For example, all of the steel in a car's drivetrain could be replaced with titanium (especially those big, heavy gears) or some other super-light alloy to increase acceleration, but it just wouldn't be cost-feasible, nor would it be cost-feasible to have all-ceramic engine bearings, ceramic piston and/or sleeve, titanium conrods, you name it.

Heck, if someone really wanted to, they could probably find a way to come up with a mini active-suspension system to knock 2-3 seconds off your lap time, but at what cost? How many people would spend the 2-3Gs per car for that?

Technical innovation is good, but innovation gone rampant could kill the hobby; I remember the glory days of Sports Prototype racing back in the early 90s, and how they essentially spent themselves into oblivion. Not a good model to follow.
captain america is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 09:48 PM   #14
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,781
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post
Good stuff. I think the durability of nitro engines could be better. I think there is a better clutch setup and power delivery as well.
Very easily done. Boat guys have been doing it for years but again, illegal. Third servos and electronic engine management are banned.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 09:50 PM   #15
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,657
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Illegal. Many of the possible advancements are not possible due to rules rather than technology. Things like traction control, active suspensions, fuel injection, etc. are all possible but banned.
really? that's backward thinking. We might as well go back to soap box derby. So racing is holding back the industry. I mean without the industry there would be no races, but you would still have a industrial market without the racing. So you premise does not make sense. The industry dictates not the other way around.

I hope i am right, but i have a feeling i am about to eat it
__________________
"You are not understanding the fundamental principles of my fragmented personality"

Mugen
dreaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:49 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net