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Old 12-19-2009, 11:23 AM   #46
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if your new to the game or money is tight or you race here and there. 200 and under motors should be good for you. if your working with 200, once you get it save it and wait til you get some extra money and get a higher end motor. i think monty had the plus 4's on sale for $275 on his site.

if you get a 200 and under motor and your booking down the str8 and your head pops off then you have wasted your money and your back to square one.
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Old 12-19-2009, 02:00 PM   #47
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Its confusing I know. I can think of at least 20 engines that would fit the bill and all of them will perform well. In this day and age, this hobby revolves around reputation. Word of mouth is very important and it can make or break a product or service. Everyone has opinions and they are derived from personal experience and words from others they trust. While there are a lot of products to choose from, one thing I would suggest is not only listen to what is being said on the internet but also what you hear and see trackside. A good thing to do is go to some local races if you have a track close by and see what people are running and talk with them one on one, watch the engines perform on the track and when you start to see a pattern forming as to what performance envelopes you are looking for, that should help narrow down as to what engines you are looking at to purchase.


While many of these engines are similarly priced, one thing to look around for is overall quality. The biggest thing is carbs. A carb can make or break an engine depending on its overall design and quality. I have seen engines that ran outstanding but required a carb change to make it happen. When buying an engine, the last thing on your mind should be looking into what other carbs are available to put on your new engine because the one it comes with is not going to work well. The companies that I have experienced that make some of the best carbs are Novarossi and OS. A lot of people love OS because of their performance and tunability but a lot complain of low life expectancy. I myself have had a few vspecs in the day and all of them were catastrophic failures by the 4th gallon for different reasons. I have seen local guys get 8+ with no problems and they swear by them so it all comes full circle to overall experiences. I have dealt with Novarossi and Picco for years and have had great luck with both but others have not for their own personal reasons.

The biggest thing is to take care of it. I have seen people take the best engines available and kill them inside of 2 gallons because they didn't treat them right. If you break them in right, preheat the engine before each and every start, maintain a good tune and inspect wear on moving parts, replacing them before they actually fail, you shouldn't have too many problems out of most engines available.

The only other piece of advice I can give you is too shy away from relatively new products. I am not saying every new product is bad but there have been a lot of products that got rave reviews early and ended up flopping later because of inferior designs, materials etc.

All in all, the engines I would buy in your price range would be the N21R, P5 and the Plus 4. The new Picco based engines look pretty good. The new JL engine is made by Force and I never liked Force engines so if was me I would spend the extra $50 and get a JPX .21 or something similar is you want to go the Picco route. I can get you a race ported N21R for the same price and it will perform right up there with the new JL .21 so the only decision to make us what brand you want. I used to love the RB line but when they switched companies, I have shyed away because of past experiences with engines that were not made in Italy. I am not saying they are not good, I am just not taking the chance to find out. I am a Novarossi dealer now so I don't really want to run anything else at this point but I have run Picco's in the past and they always treated me well and their performance was hard to beat.

Last edited by PowerHouse; 12-19-2009 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:19 PM   #48
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these engines are the best, and have been for years. I recommend a p5xls for 250. Add a ofna 086 pipe set and your moving it out with an engine that lasts through the seasons.
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:43 PM   #49
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Got to be the Reedy for me chaps. For $250 its a real deal. Extremely smooth too. Think its about $300 for the engine and the AE pipe and manifold. Looks good aswell
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:05 PM   #50
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The force JL is a nasty power house Worth the cash, for sure, will it win the worlds, mabye, with the right wheelman
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:25 PM   #51
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Wow these threads always seem to go the same way lol . But as stated a few times there are a lot of good engines in the area of 200$ price range these days anyway. Prices on engines are becoming more competitive and that's a good thing. Not too long ago you really had to spend some bucks before you got a top of the line engine. Now you can get a great engine in the 200$ price range, give or take a little.


JPX .21
Novarossi 21B
RB Killer 9
JL.21

These are all good choices in the 200$ price range for a good solid RACE engine that i would personally choose from. I would stay away from the VG series from OS. There internal materials just don't make for the best engine IMO. Now there are other OS engines that are just amazing race engines but not in the 200$ price range.
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Old 12-19-2009, 05:43 PM   #52
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Dude........

There are tons of great engines out there. Most to all are great quality, or atleast you get what you pay for.

$100 motors
$200 motors
$300 motors
$400 motors

At EACH price range you will find similar motors with similar characteristcs.

If you are not sure what to get, check out what the others at the track run. This philosiphy is not for motors, but can apply to most anything RC. You can have the greatest motor out there, but if you do not use it in the right application, a lesser would dominate.

Your equipment is only part of the equation. Driving skills make up the largest part. I could have a $2000 setup, but there are guys at my local track that could spank me with a Radio Shack truck.

So what I am saying......

Don't get all caught up in the hype. Just buy good solid reliable equipment. Work on your driving. And then when you can keep the truck on its wheels for most of the race and consistantly be in the top of the pack at a sportsman level.......... Then it might me time to invest the extra cash to compete with the local " fast guys "
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:23 PM   #53
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here is my honest opinion i have ran p5, 21b werks b7, go 7 port and 5 port and alot of others ranging from $180- $300 and besides the go 5 port the rest all ran prettty good, i currently have a nova 7port plus buggy turbo it cost $370 and a werks team line b3 cost $150 and the they both are good running motors i get around the gas milage out of both the only real big differance is the nova will scream down the straight but it is a 7 port as fair as a real tech track the werks does better it has more tourge my next motor will be a B5 i have had good luck with werks engines.
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:32 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsbury View Post
Werks B5 hands down! Look no further!
Pair it up with a thunder tiger 2035 or Werks 2013 pipe.
OD97T plug.
Exactly what I run.
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Old 12-20-2009, 06:52 AM   #55
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Again as I said and as others also commented, there are Italian made engines which works OK and then Italian made engines which kills bearings, has leaking carbs, flame out w/o particular reason etc. but hey they are Made In Italy high end engines so they must be good ??

You are referring to the price as a reference for good materials vs. bad materials. OK but then with the same analogy you should throw all the low end novas to trash bin as they can't be worth a penny. Why ?? Because how can you make something in western country (labor cost atleast 10x vs. China/Tawan) and from high quality materials (more expensive as the ones the Taiwanese guys use) and still you sell them for 140US. Something here does not work.

Regarding RB and K9 it will be interesting to see how it will eventually turn out. RB has a reputation of being a good quality engine and I doubt they would take risks on trashing that image. So I'd assume they have done their homework and found the quality to be enough.

To me it's obvious that the price tag of a racing engine will go to 200USD mark +/-10USD. There are plenty of examples on the market already and then for these traditional brands it's just down to a question if they can maintain any edge over these cheaper ones and justify the higher price tag. Sofar there has been some but say by the end of 2010 things might look different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
Oh boy

Taiwan = cheap that's all there is to it

They can copy the good stuff but it really isn't ever as good or better . They have made some some affordabilty differences for sure but I don't believe they have made quality improvements over what they have copied.

There is only one original

And yes RB has switched to taiwan , does that mean they have upgraded?
And yes there are big differences in the metals used and in the processes used when making these engines between the two .

I am in no way saying that taiwan engines are crap guys as there a few good ones out there that rival the original italian made mills for sure .
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:13 AM   #56
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Wow, well let me tell you that I've been there and done that as well. If you don't know or can't specify what you want and find the right source and end up getting crap is it's the suppliers fault ? No. You can get the exact same stuff from china than you can get from Europe or US, you just need to be able to get your act together. If it would be impossible the China economy would not be booming like it is when all others are going down-hill and they would not be the guys to whom USA owns most money. In 1990-> they were learning the subcon. business, late 1990 and whole 2000 they have been making money and now we can see the results.

Ofcourse the labor, energy etc. is cheaper there. That't the reason all major WW companies are there getting their goods made on cheapest way possible.

Saying that Taiwanese engines offers 1/2 the life of your precious Nova is crap and you know it as well as I. Also stating that all of them are NOca knock-offs is only telling that you really don't know anything. If there was a model copied from some old Nova design 3 years back does that mean they all are copies and that there would be no difference ??

As I said earlier there still has been some performance differences between the Taiwanese engines and the traditional brands but the gap is closing out fast. For the Nova and others I hope they can keep it up as it will eventually do only good for the customers as it would offer the real development on all aspects.

If you have a guy who want's to make a living out of selling these little engines howcome it would be only the guy selling the Italian mill that would understand the customer service and aftersales service ? If you want to believe this is the case then fine but without any real back up this statement is just bs. If you are referring to the issues with GO in US I assume that was more down to a individual person and I know that there has been changes also in Nova distribution chain because of obvious problems but that can't be due to brand itself can it ?

BTW now that Werks is selling their B5 for 199 does this mean that Nova is now ripping off their customers ? Or does it mean that all of a sudden Werks is also crap as it's below 200US ?

But let's get back to the original topic. We are now filling this thread with lot of speculation, personal opinions and other BS which is not helping the original poster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
It's based on knowledge from sourcing chinese and taiwanese goods in another industry.

Engines aren't made in China and Taiwan because they are the best engine building houses in the world, they are made there because it's WAY cheaper to have it done there. That a Taiwanese Novarossi knock off (all GO engines) cost within $50 of the Italian engines they're copied from but offer less than half the life (and face it, less performance) means you are being ripped off and the guy selling you the Taiwanese engine is making more money ripping you off than the guy selling you the Italian engine.

The guy selling the Italian engine also backs his product, not as likely with the gut selling the Asian engine...

Houston, Ron Hopkins of Werks and Jim at Fusion Motorsports are all legendary backers of the products they sell. What's the name of the guy that backs the Asian knockoffs?
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Old 12-20-2009, 07:36 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
i sell the 3 ports for 135$ , that is a good pricepoint for performance that you get

with 40$ for a little extra work , they are almost undetectible from much more expensive engines . powerhouse does a great little 3 port also . novarossi power


I guess it depends on what your comparing too... I highly doubt the modded 3 ports would even get an eyebrow raise from me...Sorry but $40.00 of tweaks is not going to cover the cost to completely re-engineer the engine..which IMO is what is needed for one of these 3 ports to run anywhere near where a stock Picco will, especially in a truggy.........I guess if all you run on is slick dry tracks then these weaker engines look good, but on traction they are going to be nowhere near considered powerful.......To each their own I guess !

FYI I have modified a few 3 ports, Sirio CL3B's and RB S3's..... I have done multiple stages of mods on these engines, from mild to full drag... Yes i increased performance, and quite significantly in the higher mods...However the end results were nowhere near what I would consider a powerful engine by my standards... And to make the engines somewhat decent they took a massive amount of work that pushed the cost of mods well past the point of being worthwhile.... For $40.00 you aren;t adding much to these engines...no knocking at you in any way, but in the case of these 3 ports your starting with an extremely primitive engine that doesn't even make 1 HP on the X-dyno...to make it truly compete with some of the other engines mentioned they are going to need a massive amount of work

Last edited by Maximo; 12-20-2009 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 12-20-2009, 08:46 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Poinas2 View Post
Wow, well let me tell you that I've been there and done that as well. If you don't know or can't specify what you want and find the right source and end up getting crap is it's the suppliers fault ? No. You can get the exact same stuff from china than you can get from Europe or US, you just need to be able to get your act together. If it would be impossible the China economy would not be booming like it is when all others are going down-hill and they would not be the guys to whom USA owns most money. In 1990-> they were learning the subcon. business, late 1990 and whole 2000 they have been making money and now we can see the results.

Ofcourse the labor, energy etc. is cheaper there. That't the reason all major WW companies are there getting their goods made on cheapest way possible.

Saying that Taiwanese engines offers 1/2 the life of your precious Nova is crap and you know it as well as I. Also stating that all of them are NOca knock-offs is only telling that you really don't know anything. If there was a model copied from some old Nova design 3 years back does that mean they all are copies and that there would be no difference ??

As I said earlier there still has been some performance differences between the Taiwanese engines and the traditional brands but the gap is closing out fast. For the Nova and others I hope they can keep it up as it will eventually do only good for the customers as it would offer the real development on all aspects.

If you have a guy who want's to make a living out of selling these little engines howcome it would be only the guy selling the Italian mill that would understand the customer service and aftersales service ? If you want to believe this is the case then fine but without any real back up this statement is just bs. If you are referring to the issues with GO in US I assume that was more down to a individual person and I know that there has been changes also in Nova distribution chain because of obvious problems but that can't be due to brand itself can it ?

BTW now that Werks is selling their B5 for 199 does this mean that Nova is now ripping off their customers ? Or does it mean that all of a sudden Werks is also crap as it's below 200US ?

But let's get back to the original topic. We are now filling this thread with lot of speculation, personal opinions and other BS which is not helping the original poster.
#1. European engines in general do outlast asian engines, not opinion, fact. The GO engines are Nova copies, parts are cross compatible, timing specs are the same. Strangely, the GO's do not run as well as the Nova P5 they copy. In the paragraph after you even admit as much.

#2. You have not been there, done that or you wouldn't feel so insulted because you'd know I was right. If engines as good as the europen engines could be made in Asia and for a better price, then it'd already be happening, it's not. FWIW, I never said it was anyone's fault, just the way it is right now.

#3 Werks isn't crap or ripping off his customers, he is making less money per engine (as are ALL the EU brands because of the exchange rate) on purpose, betting that if he offers better stuff for less, he'll earn more customers. It's a gamble and he knows it. Ron (screen name "Werks" on this forum) would be glad to explain that to you himself.

To the OP, buy a european made engine. They are always better and they are no longer more expensive.
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Old 12-20-2009, 09:58 AM   #59
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1# So you've tested all asian made engines against all Italians and noticed the difference ? Which would be how much ? (not focusing only on GO)
Gen 4 GO was a Nova copy, 7p and 3p were not. If you look only on rod dimensions then the old rod and proably the sleeve was replaceable but I assume you are aware that the current parts are not the same anymore ?
What I admit was (again if we compare to GO) is that 4+ has better mileage than GO 5p. Powervice it's not that different.

2# OK so first you claim you know what materials etc. all the engines builders use and now you claim you know better what I've done or am doing ?? You have a chrystal ball there as I do not recall to know you personally. And tro remind you we were not talking about these micro engines. Also have you run all current spec Taiwanese engines to back up your statement ?

3# Ie Nova is ripping off customers as Werks is doing just fine with smaller price tag ?

All in all just admit, Nova or any other engine is not THE ENGINE that would be better than anything else. If it would be then everyone would be using it.
I'm not trying to say that GO OR any other engine would be better than Italian made ones just correcting the false saying that Italian made ones would _always_ outperform + outlast any Taiwanese engine thus everyone should by Italian made engine. Same thing would be to say that Kyosho will always outperform and outlast LOSI because Kyosho is made in Japan and LOSI is made in Taiwan.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
#1. European engines in general do outlast asian engines, not opinion, fact. The GO engines are Nova copies, parts are cross compatible, timing specs are the same. Strangely, the GO's do not run as well as the Nova P5 they copy. In the paragraph after you even admit as much.

#2. You have not been there, done that or you wouldn't feel so insulted because you'd know I was right. If engines as good as the europen engines could be made in Asia and for a better price, then it'd already be happening, it's not. FWIW, I never said it was anyone's fault, just the way it is right now.

#3 Werks isn't crap or ripping off his customers, he is making less money per engine (as are ALL the EU brands because of the exchange rate) on purpose, betting that if he offers better stuff for less, he'll earn more customers. It's a gamble and he knows it. Ron (screen name "Werks" on this forum) would be glad to explain that to you himself.

To the OP, buy a european made engine. They are always better and they are no longer more expensive.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Poinas2 View Post
Again as I said and as others also commented, there are Italian made engines which works OK and then Italian made engines which kills bearings, has leaking carbs, flame out w/o particular reason etc. but hey they are Made In Italy high end engines so they must be good ??

You are referring to the price as a reference for good materials vs. bad materials. OK but then with the same analogy you should throw all the low end novas to trash bin as they can't be worth a penny. Why ?? Because how can you make something in western country (labor cost atleast 10x vs. China/Tawan) and from high quality materials (more expensive as the ones the Taiwanese guys use) and still you sell them for 140US. Something here does not work.

Regarding RB and K9 it will be interesting to see how it will eventually turn out. RB has a reputation of being a good quality engine and I doubt they would take risks on trashing that image. So I'd assume they have done their homework and found the quality to be enough.

To me it's obvious that the price tag of a racing engine will go to 200USD mark +/-10USD. There are plenty of examples on the market already and then for these traditional brands it's just down to a question if they can maintain any edge over these cheaper ones and justify the higher price tag. Sofar there has been some but say by the end of 2010 things might look different.
Boy, you sure read a lot into nothing

I think this "argument" is much more important to you

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