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Old 11-11-2009, 11:12 AM   #121
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I have been a race director for a number of years and have run into the sandbagging problem before. The best way to resolve it is to have everyone line up and the first one to finish wins. Pro, expert, intermedate , novice, or whatever you call them does not matter. If you are pro, then prove it racing against everyone.
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Old 11-11-2009, 07:10 PM   #122
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Default SANDBAGGING

Back a few posts people were really offering great sggestions on how to solve this or help the problem.I talked to a promoter of super moto and he uses his programs and AMA he is looking into a data base for drivers. I also think we will add services if you are a card holder .I heard of a track getting all the city permits just out of Newport Beach ca.someone must have some bucks ,possibly at the ElToro facility, that would be cool inside one of the cilos where they used to park the blimps back in the day.

Stay on point the ideas are really good and some funny stuff to.!!!
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:39 PM   #123
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For lack of any consistency across the racing scene, Intermediate and Sportsmen classes are the same level. This is just what I propose for this conversation. They are not Novice nor are they Expert.... Hence Intermediate/Sportsmen.
Everyone feels they need to call it something different. I say this just for this discussion.

If he (the racer in question) can compete in the top 25% of his region and has been established that way among the ranked drivers then he might need to move to Open/Expert.
In this example, or IMO, if he wants his sponsors identified to give them credit then he must run Open/Expert. If the RDs and media would quit giving props to sponsors and support for classes less than Open/Expert then his incentive would be to move up in class.
Think about it.... Why would a sponsor want to help someone they could get no recognition from? They wouldn't unless the kid is a wheel in the making. There again, without the recognition, the incentive is to move up in class.

You are starting to see this as ROAR is changing and adopting methods and procedures along these lines. If you are an Intermediate/Sportsman driver.... or something to that effect, you must run no stickers on your body. This is extreme but it is the same process. IMO I'm just getting at announcers and media coverage.

My .02.......
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well out here in ca that siderwinder nitro explosion last weekend the classes were sportsman, intermediate, and expert. he would have been running top 25% of intermediate BUT he was running sportsman, and when they called his name to the drivers stand at the begining or the A-main, most the other drivers and pit guys made it a point to call him sand bagger. and the "kid" in the making, is not a kid, he has seen a few moons in his day.
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:16 PM   #124
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well out here in ca that siderwinder nitro explosion last weekend the classes were sportsman, intermediate, and expert. he would have been running top 25% of intermediate BUT he was running sportsman, and when they called his name to the drivers stand at the begining or the A-main, most the other drivers and pit guys made it a point to call him sand bagger. and the "kid" in the making, is not a kid, he has seen a few moons in his day.
Some tall kid (old kid)running Panthers raced sportsman and had the kahoneys to except the trophy he ran hard though I blame Jimmy for that one!!! You watch once people have an option and get tired of being peeled for your hard earned money you'll go elsewhere for your fun and racing..
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:20 PM   #125
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well out here in ca that siderwinder nitro explosion last weekend the classes were sportsman, intermediate, and expert. he would have been running top 25% of intermediate BUT he was running sportsman, and when they called his name to the drivers stand at the begining or the A-main, most the other drivers and pit guys made it a point to call him sand bagger. and the "kid" in the making, is not a kid, he has seen a few moons in his day.
If you all legitimately caught someone sandbagging and knew it, you should have brought it up right then and there and put an end to it. A bunch of people calling him a sandbagger obviously did not stop him from doing it anyway. At the event someone should have had the balloons to go to the RD and the Racer in question and said this is bull s#@t, you need to race in the proper class. If nobody steps up and takes a stand then its never gonna stop
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:36 PM   #126
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Back a few posts people were really offering great sggestions on how to solve this or help the problem.I talked to a promoter of super moto and he uses his programs and AMA he is looking into a data base for drivers. I also think we will add services if you are a card holder .I heard of a track getting all the city permits just out of Newport Beach ca.someone must have some bucks ,possibly at the ElToro facility, that would be cool inside one of the cilos where they used to park the blimps back in the day.

Stay on point the ideas are really good and some funny stuff to.!!!
That rumor about the El Toro thing has been going on for years. Originally, it was rumoured to be a mx track. Between the city, state, and government, I think it will sit vacant forever. Too much red tape and too many greedy people.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:15 PM   #127
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That rumor about the El Toro thing has been going on for years. Originally, it was rumoured to be a mx track. Between the city, state, and government, I think it will sit vacant forever. Too much red tape and too many greedy people.
Its about money the mx people didnt want to get the necessary insurance because they wanted a sports cafe suspened over the track ,.it was to be funded by the Meere Group.so in turn they are looking for alternative projects and the people hat are looking at the hanger already have plans submitted for a R/C complex lake,dragstrip and airstrip with hobbyshop.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:08 AM   #128
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I personally don't care if I have to race the pros. I will tell you honestly that they would have more reason to object than I do! They're going to pass me, and proably pass clean... it doesn't hurt me a bit. On the other hand, I could (unintentionally) change the race order by making a mistake or being in the way at the wrong time.

I've been racing for about 3 years now. I still suck. The best I've ever done was 2nd in a club race... when the fast guys didn't show up.
I too have been at this about 3 years and still no victories aside from bumping from the B to the A at local events.
My problem is that at a big event is that i spend just as much money to race as "Sandbag Bob", but Bob will win or place in the sportsman class easily and walk out with some nice swag, a kit, a trophy, and a mention in the mag. But it won't say that had "Bob" been honest with himself and others he would have finished in the C-main of pro.
So how is that fair that myself and others equally as crappy get nothing while some cheater gets it all.
And i've seen it done, "Bob" is not sponsored, but stays in the sportsman class just so he can win at big races.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:23 AM   #129
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Now racing lawnmowers sounds like a blast
oh ya man it is.. haha maybe i'll start a thread in the chat lounge wiht my builds.. little off topic but i run a ford YT 16 thats fully custom and run a 12hp briggs, handle bars and throttle off a 1972 motoski 250. im building a fully custom john deere 111 with a fibreglass hood, 16hp briggs (the engine that i took out of the ford), its gonna be short and fast.. end thread jack.. i'll start a thread.

i agree with everyone here.. like i said before when racing L/M's we get a good solid 3 hours of racing in, and by the time that 3 hours is over your soo sore and can barely walk. so we let the stop watch do the thinking.. granted we all run in the 11hp/12hp class but they split us into groups of 4 according to ur lap times.. and since we know how each other races we know if they are sandbagging in the time trials.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:51 AM   #130
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I too have been at this about 3 years and still no victories aside from bumping from the B to the A at local events.
My problem is that at a big event is that i spend just as much money to race as "Sandbag Bob", but Bob will win or place in the sportsman class easily and walk out with some nice swag, a kit, a trophy, and a mention in the mag. But it won't say that had "Bob" been honest with himself and others he would have finished in the C-main of pro.
So how is that fair that myself and others equally as crappy get nothing while some cheater gets it all.
And i've seen it done, "Bob" is not sponsored, but stays in the sportsman class just so he can win at big races.
Part of the problem as I see it is this:

If I were at the top of the Sportsman/Intermediate class (those names are pretty much interchangeable at the races I run in) would I want to bump up to open, or stay down in the lower class?

Let's see: I can stay down in Sportsman and run a 30 minute A-main... or I can bump to Open and run a 10 minute C-D-whatever main. I paid a $45 entry or whatever to race... which one gives me more for my money?

The difference in runtime on the mains is an incentive to sandbag... a big one.

Just a thought.

BTW Carlton really stepped up at the Finals this year: The C-mains were 20 minutes! That rocks!
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:07 AM   #131
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Talking Definite incentive.....

Brad,

So Courtney forgets his fuel gun. He borrows one from Cedric. Courtney comments and inquires why and how does he keep it so clean. The ones we have are all beat up and scratched.
Cedric's reply.... I don't know. I have never been in a main long enough to use one.

I can definitely relate to that.

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Old 11-12-2009, 05:09 AM   #132
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On a related note: There is another kind of sandbagging that happens more frequently than you might think.

Some of the faster guys will intentionally qualify poorly to get more runtime... that way they can run the D-main, bump, run the C-main, bump, run the B-main, bump, and run the A-main.

I'm not talking about "Joe Hardluck" who breaks in every qualifying heat... I mean the guys who intentionally do that.

Of course this hurts the guys that are battleing for the bump spots in the lower mains that legitimately run there...

A 1-bump limit (or even 2-bump limit) would put a stop to that. Yes, it would suck for "Joe Hardluck..." but keeping the car in 1 piece is part of racing. (just like I got taken out in the warmup for the C at the finals... I was trying to get heat into the engine since we didn't get to pre-warm... cased a jump and flipped, and someone hit me and broke my truck. Oh well... my own stupid fault for being upside-down, right?)
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:19 AM   #133
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Brad,

So Courtney forgets his fuel gun. He borrows one from Cedric. Courtney comments and inquires why and how does he keep it so clean. The ones we have are all beat up and scratched.
Cedric's reply.... I don't know. I have never been in a main long enough to use one.

I can definitely relate to that.

TEX
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:15 AM   #134
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sand bagging is sand bagging it has nothing to do with being sponsored or not. i am new to this sport just this year and i am fortunate to be on the o'donnell team but its for reasons other than my driving skills. so i feel there are places where its ok to run sportsman, intermediate,etc and places where i should not. but i would never do it just so i could win or get a prize, like it was said above its up to the race directors to take care of this.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:09 AM   #135
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sand bagging is sand bagging it has nothing to do with being sponsored or not. i am new to this sport just this year and i am fortunate to be on the o'donnell team but its for reasons other than my driving skills. so i feel there are places where its ok to run sportsman, intermediate,etc and places where i should not. but i would never do it just so i could win or get a prize, like it was said above its up to the race directors to take care of this.
How ever you got sponsored thats great ,but what we are talking about is chassis sponsors and making the decision to race in you perspective class .Most people that are sponsored race in the class they belong but when someone is just stepping out of pro to race intermediate ,and just dropping down in class to bring home a slab of wood is just crap and ruins it for everyone involved.Race directors just want the money espcially these days,but I hear what you are saying!!!
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