R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-27-2009, 11:10 AM   #16
Tech Regular
 
gdux's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 400
Default

I was always taught to tune suspension and alignment on the vehicles after running the car for a bit on the track. Reason being that if you set the car up as it comes off the track, the shock oils and different areas of the car tend to warm up. The oil itself thins (less viscosity) and hot/cold parts = expand and contract even if only minimally. With these variables, a cold car that has been freshly setup typically comes off the track way out of the ballpark and then you're back to wrenching...
__________________
Gary Duxbury:
MUGEN SEIKI RACING / NOVAROSSI USA / AKA / M2C RACING / TKO / LUCKY 7 RC / VP RACING FUELS / PTRC RACING OILS /
PAINTMONSTER AIRBRUSHING.COM / UPGRADE RC
gdux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 11:15 AM   #17
Tech Prophet
 
tc5 man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: levittown pa
Posts: 16,873
Default

i just use a camber gauge and calipers to measure the steering linkages equally , now with the steering throw and the toe the setup station helps sometimes eyeballing toe can drive u nuts. but reallly a setup station is more inportant for onroad, think about it your jumping and hitting things more sometimes a bad landing can cause play in the wheel axle etc thats what im saying
tc5 man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 11:17 AM   #18
Tech Prophet
 
tc5 man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: levittown pa
Posts: 16,873
Default

thats a new one il try that
tc5 man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 11:28 AM   #19
Tech Master
 
8&stuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: In.
Posts: 1,401
Trader Rating: 55 (100%+)
Default

at some track layouts iv gave my cars a big workout changing things around and im sure the station would make things much easier for this but for normal tweeks the stations gotta be a rip off. not to mention the guys winning(not me so maybe i could use one)I never see use stations
8&stuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 11:29 AM   #20
Tech Regular
 
jnfweld's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 465
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Th ebiggest thing I have seen in people will but the $160 set up station but not buy the $32 blocks for the car to sit on.

http://www.teamhelotes.com/catalog/i1262.html

You need the blocks. You press the car down on them and then sett all of your settings. The camber will change as the suspenion moves up and down. If you do not have a baseline to set it from you will never get it the same.
__________________
www.teamhelotes.com
Xray parts
Hyperion Chargers and Batteries
Everything you need for a brushless.........Hyperion, Tekin and RC Monster.........we are stocking all of the best!!!!!!!
jnfweld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 11:47 AM   #21
Tech Elite
 
HaulinBass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: valleyview alberta canada
Posts: 2,114
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

9/10 its not peoples setup that causes them problems its not driving correctly. I make sure everything is even left to right and go from there, to much slop and flex in an 1/8th buggy to get it dialed on the station.
Besides the only thing people usually change offroad is springs/oil/pistons, caster,kickup and anti squat and ocassionally front toe. If you need a setup station to mesure toe, somethings not right.
HaulinBass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 12:23 PM   #22
Tech Elite
 
Zerodefect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Underground, Ohio
Posts: 4,305
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm1126 View Post
i found when i used the set up station that i would have to set -4 to achieve -2 on a standard camber gauge. also found once i stopped being anal about checking that stuff all the time i got faster
True. Most wheels wobble about 1 degree. Used or Proline can wobble 2+ degrees easy.
Zerodefect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 12:41 PM   #23
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: south florida
Posts: 7,704
Trader Rating: 163 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
True. Most wheels wobble about 1 degree. Used or Proline can wobble 2+ degrees easy.
when i do check my camber its allways with new rims and tires
cjm1126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 02:34 PM   #24
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnfweld View Post
Th ebiggest thing I have seen in people will but the $160 set up station but not buy the $32 blocks for the car to sit on.

http://www.teamhelotes.com/catalog/i1262.html

You need the blocks. You press the car down on them and then sett all of your settings. The camber will change as the suspenion moves up and down. If you do not have a baseline to set it from you will never get it the same.
This has always puzzled me. Why would you set your ride height up at lets say 27mm, and then raise it up to 30mm to set the camber and toe?? Once it sits back down to 27mm, then you have more camber and toe then you wanted...Now if they made different size blocks for different ride heights then it would make sense.
So what logic am I missing?
__________________
DESC410r-MMP/3800
DEX 410-Tekin rs Pro/6.5
M11x
1day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 06:07 PM   #25
Tech Regular
 
tallyram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 476
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm1126 View Post
i found when i used the set up station that i would have to set -4 to achieve -2 on a standard camber gauge. also found once i stopped being anal about checking that stuff all the time i got faster
you would be correct! i'm the guy that "set up" joey's car. it's very simple to use the hudy set up station, not rocket science. after tweaking our cars i did notice that it looked like the tires had a little positive camber. i set the car up for -1* camber all the way around. then i checked the camber with wheels on and a gauge read +.5* to +1* camber! i set the car up in the order hudy suggests in the manual and also use the 30mm blocks. i was actually told by someone at rc merica not to use the 30mm blocks, but to let the suspension settle to ride height and then set the car up. made no difference either way! i will continue to use the station, but will add -1.5* camber to whatever number i am dialing in. driving with positive camber is like driving on ice! it makes the front end grab very hard, but the back end doesn't have any bite! oh well, another lesson learned the hard way.
tallyram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 06:42 PM   #26
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Manila, Philippines
Posts: 804
Trader Rating: 7 (89%+)
Default

I was also disappointed with my hudy station before cause i cant get my 808 to handle right. It turns out that I had every in reverse for camber. My steering links for toe in/out front was not balanced in the first place and I used that for my baseline setting.

The car was so twitchy and would not turn properly so I adjusted it using the trims.

One race day a Team racer checked my car by eyeballing it and told me your cambeing aint right. So he used my set up station to adjust my car.

He first adjusted my ride hight and droop telling me specifically not to use the droop adjustment for ride height. Use the shocks for ride height adjustment. I was not really giving much attention to this cause its of road and with all the bumps in the track ride hight wouldnt make a differece. I was so wrong cause toe and camber differs at different ride hieght.

He checked all my links all were fine except the steering ling for toe adjustment front. He made it equal and made equal adjustment on the setup station until he got it right. Camber was set correctly. After doing everything, he checked everything all over again doing minor adjustment. All in all he was finished in 15 minutes tops. Drove the car around the track and it was dialed.

After that I use my setup station almost every run but noticing that i dont really need it cause the setting doesnt really change. So I guess you only need the setup station one time once in a while you can just barrow from a friend. But IMO Its a needed tool for racing specially when you jump from tracks to tracks. For me I run only on one tracks so pretty much its just a on the side tool for my next kit setup.
__________________
Xray XB9/Kyosho MP9/Associated RC8.2/JQ The Car Yellow Edition
Mugen MBX6T
Techno RC EB8
oggietiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 06:50 PM   #27
Tech Master
 
Lille-bror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Frederikshavn, Denmark
Posts: 1,792
Default

Talking about set-up:

In this video Adam is adjusting the droop, by measure the length of the shocks. That's not an accurate way to measure the droop. Use the Hudy way, where the car stands on the 30 mm blocks, and then measure the distance from the wheel nut to the ground


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


__________________
www.xray-shop.dk www.northtq.com
Best regards Bjarne Petersson, Denmark
XRAY / FX Racing Engines / OS Speed / HPI / Byron / HUDY / Proline / Sanwa MT4s / Sav÷x servos / Ultimate
I miss you Amy...
Lille-bror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 07:26 PM   #28
Tech Elite
 
Zerodefect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Underground, Ohio
Posts: 4,305
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tallyram View Post
you would be correct! i'm the guy that "set up" joey's car. it's very simple to use the hudy set up station, not rocket science. after tweaking our cars i did notice that it looked like the tires had a little positive camber. i set the car up for -1* camber all the way around. then i checked the camber with wheels on and a gauge read +.5* to +1* camber! i set the car up in the order hudy suggests in the manual and also use the 30mm blocks. i was actually told by someone at rc merica not to use the 30mm blocks, but to let the suspension settle to ride height and then set the car up. made no difference either way! i will continue to use the station, but will add -1.5* camber to whatever number i am dialing in. driving with positive camber is like driving on ice! it makes the front end grab very hard, but the back end doesn't have any bite! oh well, another lesson learned the hard way.
I get accuracy of about .5 degrees. Also I use the blocks so I can get repeatable results that setting at ride ht cannot give. When you push the car down onto the blocks you can see how your roll center settings effect camber. You have more camber when pushed down.

I'll bet that your roll center is set to give .5 degrees less negative camber at ride ht than when the car is pushed down onto the blocks + you wanted very little+ possible wheel wobble = positive camber. LOLz!

If I copy some one elses setup or am useing very little camber then I'll check it at ride ht, but record the readings that I got on the blocks on my setup sheet so If I like thet setup I can go back and repeat it.


Where in the world are y'all raceing where you only need 1 degree camber? Every time you roll in a turn, your outside tires lose negative camber, and if you run too little you go positive and will traction roll first rutt you hit. Are you running real stiff springs or something? (no roll?)


I'm at -3.5/-5 on the stand which is about -3/-4 at ride ht. (useing very aggessive short rear camber link settings so it'll swing more than a long link)

I just set the front camber based on how much my car rolls and how much caster I'm running. ( more caster, I use less camber) I add rear camber to loosen the rear for better rotation and to prevent traction rolls.









Admit it, JP was catching up and you needed to sabotage his Tamiya "Jeremy Edition" buggy.
Zerodefect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 07:33 PM   #29
Tech Elite
 
Zerodefect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Underground, Ohio
Posts: 4,305
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lille-bror View Post
Talking about set-up:

In this video Adam is adjusting the droop, by measure the length of the shocks. That's not an accurate way to measure the droop. Use the Hudy way, where the car stands on the 30 mm blocks, and then measure the distance from the wheel nut to the ground





Setting droop with the shock length measurement is only accurate to +/-2mm at the hub Hudy style. It sucks, But its better than nothing.

Also that gauge staircase is different than the new one. -2 is 28mm off the table, or 2mm droop(using 30mm blocks). I usually start at -2/-2 now.

And they set the block too far back in that pic, its touching the arms.

only problem is sometime the screws on the bottom of the chassis stick out and the car wont sit flat on the blocks. But obviously they'll wear down in a few races.
Zerodefect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 07:46 PM   #30
Tech Lord
 
Integra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,482
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Integra
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lille-bror View Post
Talking about set-up:

In this video Adam is adjusting the droop, by measure the length of the shocks. That's not an accurate way to measure the droop. Use the Hudy way, where the car stands on the 30 mm blocks, and then measure the distance from the wheel nut to the ground


+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



IF its good enough for the ROAR national champ....its good enough for me.
__________________
TNS Driver - Radio Post - Blue Groove Apparel - Team Panther - Hitec - Losi - W.E.D. Paint - Clockwork Fuel - Competition Heat - SUMO Racing - Tekin - Team Terribles - M2C Racing - Matrix Concepts - Kal Gard - BuKu Power - DE Racing -
Integra is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Have any tips for a guy moving from electric to nitro? Banter Nitro Off-Road 32 01-22-2009 02:19 PM
Thinking abot going lipo and don`t know a thing about them . Briguy Electric Off-Road 14 08-16-2008 04:16 PM
I know this has been posted 10,000 times... new to rc cars Nitro Off-Road 61 07-10-2008 04:21 PM
Anyone know a Deborah Henn? What do you think of this? XMSRacing Chat Lounge 40 01-12-2007 07:21 AM
I Know its Early, but lets start a thread on theTricities +??? cclifton Canadian R/C Scene 223 11-15-2004 10:44 AM
b4 or xxx ke2 -I know this has been asked a million times... AE Racer Electric Off-Road 132 01-11-2004 09:46 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:39 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net