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Old 10-15-2009, 12:07 PM   #16
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i think it would be a good idea for a company to come up with a 4 stroke engine specifically for an 1/8th scale buggy/truggy. it would be sweet IMO. in motocross, the 4 strokes dominate the 2 strokes BIG time. so i think if they would put a lot of R&D in it, they could come up with a sick engine!
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Old 10-15-2009, 12:31 PM   #17
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Agreed 4 strokes would be awesome yes they have to be double the cc to match but take motocross 2 strokes used to dominate but nowadays in the ama motocross there is not 1 2 stroke in the field.

imo in 5/10 years time rc will be the same i hope so i love the sound of 4 strokes

here are some vids i found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igEw0Hb1m0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uddNtWwguI

both dont look slow to me and both are airplane engines converted

Ben
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:46 PM   #18
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As i said the cars are getting very light.Every one is going for runtime now and as a result the engines are making less power.Yes 4stroke make less power.Every one knows that.But with todays teck.i think they would be very good.Our cars are over powerd as is.Ever watch motor cross.
Ya i race motocross every weekend over the summer. R/c is what i do for pass time and while i am ingured. And yes i ride a YZ250f which is a four stroke i love it, but four stroke motocross bike drove the two stroke bikes out of sales. along with the loss of the two stroke went cheap racing two. It costs me about $1500 for a full top end reiuld on my bike. a YZ125 (two stroke) only cost $300 max. thats 5 times more. take a O.S. vspec .21 it costs $130 for a piston and sleeve plus another $40 buck for the conecting rod. thats a $170 for a two stroke, times that buy 5 and see if you will want t rebuild it.. keep the two stroke and keep cheap racing.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BenXB8ec View Post
Agreed 4 strokes would be awesome yes they have to be double the cc to match but take motocross 2 strokes used to dominate but nowadays in the ama motocross there is not 1 2 stroke in the field.

imo in 5/10 years time rc will be the same i hope so i love the sound of 4 strokes

here are some vids i found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igEw0Hb1m0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uddNtWwguI

both dont look slow to me and both are airplane engines converted

Ben
Although i will agree with you that the "current" 4 stroke 450cc moto`s are superior in power to the older gen 250 2 strokes, i have to say that the reason you dont see them anymore on the track is emission laws, they outlawed 2 strokes for racing a few years back hence why every manafacturer jumped into 4 strokes.

The very first production 450`s werent as powerful as they are now and a well setup 250 2 stroke was still a faster, lighter and more nimble bike for racing, 4 strokes make it easier for the novice rider to go fast, making the sport more freindly for new comers, 2 strokes are an experts engine when you start making big power because the powerband tends to be narrower. But they are a lot cheaper to rebuild, have a lot less moving parts and weigh a lot less, the current 450 bikes are a bit over 100kg, whereas the factory 250`s of the late 90`s and early 00`s were more around the 90-95kg mark, thats a big difference in the air and under braking etc.

All these comparisons work hand in hand with R/C, the motocross industry were forced into engine changes from laws getting tougher, our industry hasnt got these laws and the cheap, light, simple nature of a 2 stroke IMO will be the reason we will stay that way for a few years to come, unless something comes along that forces change... although fuel and emissions arent a problem with alcohol fueled engines.
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Old 10-15-2009, 01:57 PM   #20
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Although i will agree with you that the "current" 4 stroke 450cc moto`s are superior in power to the older gen 250 2 strokes, i have to say that the reason you dont see them anymore on the track is emission laws, they outlawed 2 strokes for racing a few years back hence why every manafacturer jumped into 4 strokes.

The very first production 450`s werent as powerful as they are now and a well setup 250 2 stroke was still a faster, lighter and more nimble bike for racing, 4 strokes make it easier for the novice rider to go fast, making the sport more freindly for new comers, 2 strokes are an experts engine when you start making big power because the powerband tends to be narrower. But they are a lot cheaper to rebuild, have a lot less moving parts and weigh a lot less, the current 450 bikes are a bit over 100kg, whereas the factory 250`s of the late 90`s and early 00`s were more around the 90-95kg mark, thats a big difference in the air and under braking etc.

All these comparisons work hand in hand with R/C, the motocross industry were forced into engine changes from laws getting tougher, our industry hasnt got these laws and the cheap, light, simple nature of a 2 stroke IMO will be the reason we will stay that way for a few years to come, unless something comes along that forces change... although fuel and emissions arent a problem with alcohol fueled engines.
they never banned two strokes for emitions, a two stroke can still raca an AMA pro natinal or supercross, it wouldnt be smart becuose the fourstrokes have a much larger dislacement and there for more power. i still race again two stokes and yamaha and KTM will have them for 2010.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:15 PM   #21
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Really? I remember reading in a motocross action magazine that worldwide they had to lower emissions and in 01-05 there was to be less and less 2 strokes manafactured by the major brands to comply with these rules. This was the reason behind the push for 4 strokes in racing, it cost the manafacturers millions of dollars in R&D to make these bikes fast, i cant see them doing that when they were already winning races still with 90% 2 strokes unless there was something forcing them to change.

I could be wrong, i know they still produce them but they arent raced everywhere and its not because they arent good bikes or competitive.

On the R/C topic, does anyone know where you can buy the GT2 4 stroke converions?
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:29 PM   #22
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idk about 4 stroke being the future with the current wave of brushless technology and the batteries to go with them its only going to get more powerful lighter and cheaper. granted it will get more powerful before cheaper. but imo it is the future of our hobby. dont get me wrong i love the sound and smell of internal combustion engines. but if you compare engine lifetime,power and ease of maintenance electric wins at least in my book but look at it like this.

bl motor system=330$+or- a few $$$
racing nitro mill=300+$ +extra$$$ for the better u go

bl motor lasts lets say 3 seasons before you inspect the bearings and relube 3$ for some 3in1 oil.

nitro mill=1 maybe 2 seasons before it has to be replaced or rebuilt.which can be big$$$ depending on motor.

400$+or- for 4 batteries again depending on the batteries you go with.

10 gallons of nitro at 24.00$ a gallon=240$=1 season

but the catch there is the batteries you will have for multiple seasons and the nitro will be there for just the one season.

this is just my perspective on this matter the prices where all from the top of my head and a generalization on price from what ive seen in catalogs,magazines and msrp prices. please feel free to give me your thoughts aon this matter would love to hear them.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:29 PM   #23
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I could be wrong, i know they still produce them but they arent raced everywhere and its not because they arent good bikes or competitive.
they are still competitive with a talented rider no dout but now the four strokes are way more powerful and the rider can be off the gas a little more. unlike the 2 stroke winding it out and holding it wide open. and yea they race them at all ama events around here. people just choose the 4 strokes over the 2 because they are faster.. but pricier like stated above.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:36 PM   #24
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Beefhead, you have left out one important benifit of 2 strokes over 4 strokes, simplicity.

So how long can you run a 4 stroke wide open? Will they be able to hold up to a 45 min main? Reliability would be my main concern with a 4 stroke in a buggy/truggy. You are adding ALOT more moving parts and the weight of the components would go up. So that means more wear and tear. I really dont see how a 4 stroke would be beneficial in a small scale RC car or truck.

Andy
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mister-e-meat View Post
idk about 4 stroke being the future with the current wave of brushless technology and the batteries to go with them its only going to get more powerful lighter and cheaper. granted it will get more powerful before cheaper. but imo it is the future of our hobby. dont get me wrong i love the sound and smell of internal combustion engines. but if you compare engine lifetime,power and ease of maintenance electric wins at least in my book but look at it like this.

bl motor system=330$+or- a few $$$
racing nitro mill=300+$ +extra$$$ for the better u go

bl motor lasts lets say 3 seasons before you inspect the bearings and relube 3$ for some 3in1 oil.

nitro mill=1 maybe 2 seasons before it has to be replaced or rebuilt.which can be big$$$ depending on motor.

400$+or- for 4 batteries again depending on the batteries you go with.

10 gallons of nitro at 24.00$ a gallon=240$=1 season

but the catch there is the batteries you will have for multiple seasons and the nitro will be there for just the one season.

this is just my perspective on this matter the prices where all from the top of my head and a generalization on price from what ive seen in catalogs,magazines and msrp prices. please feel free to give me your thoughts aon this matter would love to hear them.

If you asked me about 6 months ago i would agree with you 100% man but i have just made the switch back to nitro from 1/8 electric, have had 2x expensive batteries swell up and they were balanced everytime, never run to low etc. looked after very carefully and still no luck, the bearing in the motors dont last very long, tires wear very fast, the cars break easier due to the power ( i was only running 1900kv on 4S ) and the motors and ESC`s although internally well made wont handle the nature of 1/8 off road, have had fans break and the cases break, wires nearly worn through even when cable tied well, just from the flex and hard hits the cars take, I would consider myself a very experience driver/racer and am very smooth and dont crash much but i still copped a lot of pain... i went electric to try and save myself some wrenching time, cost wasnt an issue and i bought the best of everything to go electric but i am not sold on the idea of it unfortunately, i might be only one in 100 that will feel this way but for me nitro is easier, i spend just as much time changing motor bearings, esc fans, making sure the electrics were all in good shape and clean, keeping the wires organized etc. and thats on top of the normal maintenance which was more frequent anyway due to the high power level. Was just as time consuming cleaning and oiling a motor and flushing out the tank after the days running....

Its much of a muchness, nitro is here to stay for a long while yet, i cant see them being taken over by electric, they run both electric and nitro in the on road circles, i think we will see 1/8 off road in both power plants, much like 1/10 truck nitro and electric back in the day, it was very popular and if not were my old RC10GT and OS 12 CV i wouldnt have had a good nitro experience, not much out there at the time was as reliable as that combo and it gave me faith to continue!!
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SinistiR View Post
Beefhead, you have left out one important benifit of 2 strokes over 4 strokes, simplicity.

So how long can you run a 4 stroke wide open? Will they be able to hold up to a 45 min main? Reliability would be my main concern with a 4 stroke in a buggy/truggy. You are adding ALOT more moving parts and the weight of the components would go up. So that means more wear and tear. I really dont see how a 4 stroke would be beneficial in a small scale RC car or truck.

Andy
+1 a very important thing that just slipped my mind.
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Old 10-15-2009, 02:57 PM   #27
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+1 a very important thing that just slipped my mind.
I had the Kyosho super ten 4 stroke and I thought it was cool as hell!!! The sound was great ,the tiny ass header and pipe were sweet, but the fact is ,on a big track the 2 strokers would smoke me. I even put the optional 2 speed in it that was not cheap and the motor just did not always have the power to engage it. it idled great and ran flawless and I could stay with the 2 strokes on a small track . If they were to come out with a 1/8 version I would have to see a couple of them run before I made the switch.
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Old 10-15-2009, 05:58 PM   #28
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Heres one for ya,
What about rotary!!
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Old 10-15-2009, 06:13 PM   #29
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haha perfect. lol
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Old 10-15-2009, 07:57 PM   #30
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4 stroke bikes are alot more reliable for trail rideing. No worries about dented pipes or oil goo messing up your tune. Less stalling. While harder to kick over, they seem more willing to start when tuned right.

More traction, more grunt, no clutch. Sounds alot cooler, 2 strokes sound like a fishing boat when your on them.

And just like in RC, four strokes are way more fun, and thats what its all about.
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