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Old 10-11-2009, 09:40 AM   #16
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. i need to get rid of em
Sidewalk sale!.
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Old 10-12-2009, 12:42 AM   #17
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All (...the pros), thanks for the answers.

This thread took an interesting turn, as it seems that it's mostly pros who actually answered my question, which was (maybe unclearly) "when you pay for "engine break-in", do you expect the motor to be returned seemingly pinching like new". Which means the pros felt they had to explain what's happening... The customers didn't post much except praising monty's job (whom surely I believe does a nice job, but that was off-topic).

I am willing to accept that $40 can't buy you the full attention needed for someone to run the mill till it "drops the nuts", but I really, really find it borderline that the service paid for is called "break-in", when in reality, the mechanical charaterization (sp?) of true break-in (ie a perfectly mated piston/sleeve assembly) is still far from reach. I guess I'll take this as a learning for the future, which I'm happily sharing with the forum members...

To the other readers wondering about the conclusion of this, here we go:

$40 "break-in fee" buys you a few tanks on the bench, and that's it. The engine still is far from going through TDC. The other majority of tanks till the engine can be 100% race-tuned are still up to the engine owner to run himself. I recommend against purchasing such a service.

Thanks all,

Paul
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:31 AM   #18
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Still trying to get my plus 4c to break in. Runs real good but haven't noticed a power increase over regular plus 4 yet if there is one. I only have 3/4 gallon on it and I know its not complete because of the pinch when turned by hand. Really smooth and run times are already up to my plus 4's.
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:15 AM   #19
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By the request of Lonstar i was asked not to intervien on the topic he chose to post about engine breakin by a pro in which he sent me 2 os v spec's to go threw and breakin, now with his admittince of the conclusion of his finding's although still unsatisfied I will now post my thought's.


Paul, first off thank you for your honesty and determination to want to fully understand the process of what i do and what other consider to be a full breakin and weighing the differences.


Now it's my turn to be honest as i have always been with you. To me there is a big difference in which a motor gets brokein on a bench and in THE CAR, each person has there own way on how they like to do it, some dont want to do it at all. When i do a motor, it is more than a few tank's on the bench, a few tank's dont take over an our to go through, some people go throu 700cc's of fuel and are race tunning, I dont do it that way and have no issue with people chosing that methode, your motor has gone throu a series of heat cycle's, and i mean more than one heat cycle on a single tank. And as i mentioned to you through our conversation while pmming back and forth, I will not run someone elses motor in a car for breakin, to much of a risk for somethig to happen, I have seen it done and it's not good imo so i choose not to do it that way.

How much is enough? I did your motor the same way i do my own, yes i do some of my engine's more aggressivly due to their application, your motor is not being used for that, and i always have time to do it correctly, my own motor's are always last min due to getting everyone elses done and i know what to expect when i do my own motor's and why they are done that way. A perfect example is that you mentioned how the used v spec that installed a new rod in only had about 1 gallon on it and the compresion seemed very low, the os will normally have lower compresion than some other engine's. It's funny to me that you broke in that motor and your complaining about it not having any compresion, but i breakin your new one and it still has pinch, there is a reason for that, i used heat, and a bench. I choose a bench simply for the fact that the motor doest not get a aggressive inconsistant load and unload through the part's, if you listen very closley to a motor in the car while being brokin, the clutch is engaging and disingaging several times before it starts to clear out, that force is going directly through the rod and crank pin, it may not bother the piston and sleeve as much, but the other parts are feeling every bit of that.

Paul, as i said before, I am very sorry for your unhappiness with what i did for you, the motor was sent to your brother in law over a month ago, then sent to you out of the country it has gone through many different climate's and not ran for some time. As I stated to you before, it will not take much heat for your motor to get loose, and once your able to run it, the metal to metal pinch will start to go away in the proper way and the motor will have true compresion, if you beat all the pinch out of it to fast it will not idel at higher race temps and have less power overall than it would with the higher compresion. As the motor would do in the car, on the last TUNNIG TANK, the motor is put up to race temp with variable rpm cycles and then allowed to cool while ideling, your motor as withg every motor i do will idle at 240 down to 150 and never stop, I will even have to step back into the shop to listen for your motor, it will hold such a low consistant idle you would think it shut off, and if it didn't have the compresion or pinch to allow it to do that then you would be even more upset.

I'm not sure how you got the first os to start without a heat gun, but now you cant start the one i did for you even though it was brokin heat guns here in the states can be found for $15, grab yourself one and do it at the house, you only need it to be around 175 deg to start it and after that you will be fine, your motor is ready to start running in the car and just be easy with it for the first 30 min, and then you can use a conservitive race tune and go to the track.

Thanks Paul
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:40 AM   #20
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Brian

thanks for posting, and for indeed not getting involved earlier in this thread, where I was hoping more customers would give their opinion rather than motor pros. In the end, not many end-users shared their view on this, but many pros did...

The first OS #1 I sent for inspection was my first 8th scale offroad engine I bought in march - it ran about 5L, never well. I've done electric racing competitively for the past 10yrs+, but this is my first 8th scale offroad season, hence I made some beginners' mistakes it seems. I didn't use a heat gun to start it , but I have a decent starter box, and as a result, you rightfully noted the conrod is shot. I don't have a heat gun, and my issue is that I wouldn't know where to hook one up at the track where I race, as there's no AC power there. Breaking-in an engine in my neighborood is a big no-no. This is why I also sent engine #2 a brand spanking new OS so it could be fully broken in, as I knew I'm a complete ass at breaking-in engines. In the meantime, I had a Plus4 broken in by a friend at anpther track for me, and I also purchase a ToroNero which came modded and fully (passes TDC) broken-in, these two engines could abuse pretty much straight away when they were returned to me.

You did notice I didn't mention any names on this thread, as I don't think what I consider an issue is related to your company in particular. You did treat me well in the end, very pro on the phone, very helpful, good communication. So don't consider I am dissatisfied with protwistermod's service, rather than with the way the industry calls "break-in" service what I consider is just a "pre-break-in".

I am just warning other modellers who'd want to purchase a $40 "break-in" than they will only get a "partial" one, and be returned with a engine that still pinches sustantially at TDC - the engine will still be far from "dropping the nuts" or "being 100% ready for race-tuning reliably".

I think I understand this applies to most motor shops, not yours specifically - hence me never mentionning your shop's name. Actually, your shop I would recommend happily to anyone asking.

Hope this clarifies,

regards,
Paul
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:30 AM   #21
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I break n my own engines on the bench using the heat cycle method it usually takes about 5-6 tanks I run it very rich and wrap the head with foil and use a heat gun to keep the temp above 200. Usually 200-230. But it still has metal pinch after this. Then I race them at about 80% race tune. You can tell when it's broke in because the metal pinch will be almost gone and it will richen up on you to the point that it almost won't run. That means it's broken in. Personally I would not expect a service to completly remove the metal pinch unless they state that they will. As long as the parts have been heat cycled then runthe engine and it will be great for many gallons. I have one os speed engine with about 5-6 gallons on it and it had great compression sill and pulls very hard. I have even run it hot 2 or 3 times during 30 min mains comming off the track at 280-290. I don't like hem this hot but things happen. I know guys that say os engnes are shot at 4-5 gallons they must not be tuning them properly. I think you got the engine back with exactly what you paid for in my opinion. Tune it and run it. Always use a heat gun until that metal pinch is gone and the engine will last for many gallons. Just one racers opinion (not a factory guy)
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:04 AM   #22
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Hudy Engine Break-In Bench

worth every penny
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:00 PM   #23
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Paul, i'm not sure how soon your wanting to run the motor if you want you can send the new os back to me and i will run the motor to break the pinch, that way you wont need any heating to get going, free of charge just pay the shipping, offers there if you want it.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:45 PM   #24
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I don't see how anyone could think that you would get a complete breakin for 40.00 dollars. The fuel alone is almost that much. Although it says a breakin as mention before maybe it should read pre breakin. Even if they got the fuel for free 40.00 would not cover anyones time unless they where doing the breakin to help a friend out. Although I have never bought anything from Monte or Brian they have help me out a lot eather by posting on here or over the phone. Cant say thank you enough.

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Old 10-13-2009, 01:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Hudy Engine Break-In Bench

worth every penny
Speaking of the hudy bench. How many people use it and does it work well?
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:59 PM   #26
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Speaking of the hudy bench. How many people use it and does it work well?
i use 3
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:03 PM   #27
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It offers a very simple engine start up, everything as far as how high you set the base is very accessable and easy to use. it has a control arm for the carb and comes with a prop and collet wheel, a motor can be pulled from the box mounted and heated in about 5 min if you dont inspect the motor before brekin.
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Old 10-13-2009, 02:47 PM   #28
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I had afriend break in one of my GRP tuned.21 and a lot of the guys at the track frowned and said thats not the way to break in an engine.We broke it in out doors in a grassy area right near the track ... early in the A.M..... no one was running on the track and no-one else was even there. We could not attach an air filter.The prop would not clear it. We wrapped the head and heat cycled it for about 10 tanks. I feel we did everything right. the engine became un-tunable at about the 1 gallon mark. I pulled the engine and noticed the front seal was very very wet. Sent the engine back to Horizon and they said there had been se veral came back with defective front seals....... since it was a race engine no-warranty.The also said they would fix it for 180.00 half price.
They also said it had been run lean.... yeah no sh-t! when you have a front seal blow out they tend to get warm. well al the other guys at the track were saying ..man you don't break in an engine on a hudy bench.... you did not even have an air filter on it.Well do you know what?There were no scuffs on the P/S. Why do you guys even use a Hudy break in bench since they Suck????? personally I think they are a great tool but why all the haters???
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Old 10-13-2009, 03:58 PM   #29
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haters are the people that cant afford one :P
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Old 10-13-2009, 05:03 PM   #30
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Life lesson#113 Any time someone earnestly tries their best to help you, always appreciate it, even if you find out what they did is criticized by others ,never ever turn against the person that tried to help you.
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