1/8 Nitro's & Electrics...Can they race together?
07-28-2009, 03:27 AM
#1
1/8 Nitro's & Electrics...Can they race together?
Ok, this has become a hot-button subject, and let's get it figured out.
And before we get started, let me just say that splitting up the classes is not an option at this point. Let me also say that this not to be a b*tch session about nitro vs. electric. So, let's keep this thread focused, neutral, and with the goal of coming up with a fair set of rules so electric and nitro 1/8 can co-exist.
So, topic #1 is pit stops. The rule we tried to run with at this last race seemed to be a little off. We tried to make it to where if a race was 15 minutes or longer, the electrics had to pit stop to level it out. While some people do own motors/pipes that can run in excess of 10 minutes, no-one ever seems to risk it and they always come in for a pit stop. So, I propose that we do this:
For every 10 minutes of racing, ALL cars are to make at least one 5 second pit stop.
Now, that opens it up for how this can be enforced because in the heat of the race, sometimes people just don't even remember to do it if they don't have to. So, to remedy that, I propose this:
If in a 10+ minute race, then at around either 4 minutes, or 7 minutes, each of the electrics are required to pull in and make their pit. The announcer will call that it is time, and knowing before hand how many electrics are in a heat, they can watch pit-lane for a period of about 60 seconds. Then they just count cars and make sure they all pitted.
Topic #2: Reverse in 1/8 electric. We have already discussed this, and it is not legal, and will remain that way. I propose this:
If you see someone using reverse, then simply let the race announcer (not me) know, and they will be not be allowed to continue racing until they program their ESC into reverse lock-out mode and will be required to demonstrate that it is locked out to the race director. Further violations will be penalized by either docking laps, or removal from the race. Again, this is enforced by the race director.....not me!
So, again, let's keep this thread focused, and let me know if you think those rules will cover it for now. Remember my rule: K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple, Stupid! That means don't even bother proposing some kind of long or complicated set of rules.....this isn't ROAR, and it never will be!
I'm talking local club racing here....
And before we get started, let me just say that splitting up the classes is not an option at this point. Let me also say that this not to be a b*tch session about nitro vs. electric. So, let's keep this thread focused, neutral, and with the goal of coming up with a fair set of rules so electric and nitro 1/8 can co-exist.
So, topic #1 is pit stops. The rule we tried to run with at this last race seemed to be a little off. We tried to make it to where if a race was 15 minutes or longer, the electrics had to pit stop to level it out. While some people do own motors/pipes that can run in excess of 10 minutes, no-one ever seems to risk it and they always come in for a pit stop. So, I propose that we do this:
For every 10 minutes of racing, ALL cars are to make at least one 5 second pit stop.
Now, that opens it up for how this can be enforced because in the heat of the race, sometimes people just don't even remember to do it if they don't have to. So, to remedy that, I propose this:
If in a 10+ minute race, then at around either 4 minutes, or 7 minutes, each of the electrics are required to pull in and make their pit. The announcer will call that it is time, and knowing before hand how many electrics are in a heat, they can watch pit-lane for a period of about 60 seconds. Then they just count cars and make sure they all pitted.
Topic #2: Reverse in 1/8 electric. We have already discussed this, and it is not legal, and will remain that way. I propose this:
If you see someone using reverse, then simply let the race announcer (not me) know, and they will be not be allowed to continue racing until they program their ESC into reverse lock-out mode and will be required to demonstrate that it is locked out to the race director. Further violations will be penalized by either docking laps, or removal from the race. Again, this is enforced by the race director.....not me!
So, again, let's keep this thread focused, and let me know if you think those rules will cover it for now. Remember my rule: K.I.S.S. = Keep It Simple, Stupid! That means don't even bother proposing some kind of long or complicated set of rules.....this isn't ROAR, and it never will be!
I'm talking local club racing here....
07-28-2009, 04:45 AM
#2
It's been noticed that same driver with electric and nitro is faster with the electric. What this has done locally is let the not so fast racers and new drivers place ahead of the seasoned racers. We don't have enough electric guys yet to have their own race so it is what it is.
The electric cars have a large advantage being at full power a the first moment of acceleration. Nitro engines need to spool up to get to their power band. Apples and oranges, you know? So it's like racing a Slash against a T4 or XXXT-CR. They're essentially the same but there is a distinct advantage.
The electric cars have a large advantage being at full power a the first moment of acceleration. Nitro engines need to spool up to get to their power band. Apples and oranges, you know? So it's like racing a Slash against a T4 or XXXT-CR. They're essentially the same but there is a distinct advantage.
07-28-2009, 06:07 AM
#4
NO NO NO NO NO - no mixed classes - nitro is nitro and electric is electric
They have tried this here 2wice and both times all of the nitro guys left the stnad complaining that the electrics are in the way
They have tried this here 2wice and both times all of the nitro guys left the stnad complaining that the electrics are in the way
07-28-2009, 06:34 AM
#6
07-28-2009, 06:45 AM
#7
In the hands of very good drivers, the electrics are often a few tenths faster... but not at all tracks, and it's not a huge difference. There have been a couple big races where the NITRO cars were actually faster. (same guys running both classes)
It's easy for nitro racers to just sit back and say electric is faster and it's not fair. But a lot of people don't understand how difficult it can be to drive electric 1/8 consistently fast. They do some things really well, and can make certain parts of a track easier, but they can be worse on other parts of a track where a lot of control is needed (it's easy to overpower them).
Most nitro racers would say they have an advantage in braking. Also the nitro powerband actually can help in the rough and loose stuff... you CANNOT just grab full throttle all the time with electrics.
I've been racing electric 1/8 for a long time and I've let a lot of other guys run my cars. The bottom line is that it's always been driving skill that wins the race. Personally, I have had the same results no matter what I run... nitro, electric, 1/10, 1/8.... it's always about the same group of guys who make the A and the same few who finish at the top, etc.
I can see both sides of the issue... but I don't want to hear crying. It's driving that wins, period. And 1/8 is split into classes based on skill. Sportsman racers shouldn't worry or complain... if a guy is too fast he should get bumped to Pro whether it's nitro or electric. Pro guys shouldn't complain about racing with fast cars... isn't that the POINT? What if Tebo shows up to race... you going to go home or stay and take your beating? LOL
Question: With the tough economy and lower turnouts at most tracks.... WHY would anyone want to turn away more racers and more competition just because of what makes the tires spin?
I actually sat out a race last weekend that I traveled to. IMO the track lost out on the $25 entry and the racers lost out on bragging rights of beating the @#$%! electric car. Pretty much everyone looses IMO I didn't even try to run with the nitros though because it was a Pro Series state race and the rules are in place, with a separate electric class. But the trucks do get to run together for some reason and they still all have fun.....
It's easy for nitro racers to just sit back and say electric is faster and it's not fair. But a lot of people don't understand how difficult it can be to drive electric 1/8 consistently fast. They do some things really well, and can make certain parts of a track easier, but they can be worse on other parts of a track where a lot of control is needed (it's easy to overpower them).
Most nitro racers would say they have an advantage in braking. Also the nitro powerband actually can help in the rough and loose stuff... you CANNOT just grab full throttle all the time with electrics.
I've been racing electric 1/8 for a long time and I've let a lot of other guys run my cars. The bottom line is that it's always been driving skill that wins the race. Personally, I have had the same results no matter what I run... nitro, electric, 1/10, 1/8.... it's always about the same group of guys who make the A and the same few who finish at the top, etc.
I can see both sides of the issue... but I don't want to hear crying. It's driving that wins, period. And 1/8 is split into classes based on skill. Sportsman racers shouldn't worry or complain... if a guy is too fast he should get bumped to Pro whether it's nitro or electric. Pro guys shouldn't complain about racing with fast cars... isn't that the POINT? What if Tebo shows up to race... you going to go home or stay and take your beating? LOL
Question: With the tough economy and lower turnouts at most tracks.... WHY would anyone want to turn away more racers and more competition just because of what makes the tires spin?
I actually sat out a race last weekend that I traveled to. IMO the track lost out on the $25 entry and the racers lost out on bragging rights of beating the @#$%! electric car. Pretty much everyone looses IMO I didn't even try to run with the nitros though because it was a Pro Series state race and the rules are in place, with a separate electric class. But the trucks do get to run together for some reason and they still all have fun.....
07-28-2009, 07:34 AM
#8
OK, this is kind of weird. The original post in this thread is a cut and paste job from another forum and the topic is about our local series. The only thing that's changed is that the original post had a 3 second pit stop instead of 5.
This issue has proved to be both controversial and contentious here. I believe the classes should be separated because despite being similarly appearing, under the body the cars are totally different. In my mind, once you have enough electric cars for a class, they should be run separately. It make things much less complicated. If you don't have enough, then run them together, but try to make the rules fair to BOTH types of cars. It's not easy, there are pluses and minuses to both.
This issue has proved to be both controversial and contentious here. I believe the classes should be separated because despite being similarly appearing, under the body the cars are totally different. In my mind, once you have enough electric cars for a class, they should be run separately. It make things much less complicated. If you don't have enough, then run them together, but try to make the rules fair to BOTH types of cars. It's not easy, there are pluses and minuses to both.
07-28-2009, 07:54 AM
#9
at one or more of the tracks hear they both run together just
not enough electrics to make two class they just make the e-cars
do a stop an go depending on how long the race is one or two times
seems to work out fine so far but I do think that when you have enough
cars to make a class they should be separate class for electrics and nitro
not enough electrics to make two class they just make the e-cars
do a stop an go depending on how long the race is one or two times
seems to work out fine so far but I do think that when you have enough
cars to make a class they should be separate class for electrics and nitro
07-28-2009, 09:21 AM
#10
I dont see the prob racing both in one race at a club race and this is comen from a nitro guy your not going to win a race with just speed. More then like if the guy that is winning is fast hes not just winning because hes fast it also means he can drive and if you give the same guy a nitro car hes porb going to win too. Club races are for fun and if you dont like running with e car or gas car run in rc pro or another big race.
07-28-2009, 10:10 AM
#13
I never said one was faster than the other ,nor did I mention driving........ Me I dont care I will come out and say it "I (TOKEN) thinks 1/8 Electric sucks. I know that there are a few people that likethem. Please dont tell me there is alot of intrest in 1/8 electric - there is not. If it was we will not be having this discussion, and they would have huge showings at th races.
Running them in the same class as nitro just sucks. There are several reason why.
Turn Marshalling - I have seen electrics flip over and the marshal just picks him up thinkin he died.
A huge part of nitro racing is the pit stop and managing your time. Electics cant make it or they make a stop to change packs.
Not everyone but 95%of the electric i have seen - the DRIVER cant control them, so they are in the way.
So with that said , no mixed classes
Running them in the same class as nitro just sucks. There are several reason why.
Turn Marshalling - I have seen electrics flip over and the marshal just picks him up thinkin he died.
A huge part of nitro racing is the pit stop and managing your time. Electics cant make it or they make a stop to change packs.
Not everyone but 95%of the electric i have seen - the DRIVER cant control them, so they are in the way.
So with that said , no mixed classes
07-28-2009, 10:17 AM
#14
I agree with all the above. But making an electric make a fake pit stop is kind of lame. Fake isn't racing.
Can an electric 1/8th scale even run for 15 minutes without slowing down and saving battery. I haven't seen one go for 15.
At the club level I wouldn't even bother adjusting the rules. Run 'em for 15, pit if you have to.
If the racing gets lopsided real bad, and I doubt it will at the club level, then run 'em for 30 minutes in the mains. Takes a long time to change a battery.
Now this deosn't apply to big races, and the way 1/10th electric is dieing, I'd expect to see more electric 1/8th scale cars. The problem solves itsself, lets have some nitro vs e fun until then.
I haven't seen any electrics do well in 15 or 30 min mixed mains yet. Forget all the handicap rules and adjust the length of the main so that the electrics need to make one stop. A nitro can make a bunch of stops in the time it takes to change a battery.
Can an electric 1/8th scale even run for 15 minutes without slowing down and saving battery. I haven't seen one go for 15.
At the club level I wouldn't even bother adjusting the rules. Run 'em for 15, pit if you have to.
If the racing gets lopsided real bad, and I doubt it will at the club level, then run 'em for 30 minutes in the mains. Takes a long time to change a battery.
Now this deosn't apply to big races, and the way 1/10th electric is dieing, I'd expect to see more electric 1/8th scale cars. The problem solves itsself, lets have some nitro vs e fun until then.
I haven't seen any electrics do well in 15 or 30 min mixed mains yet. Forget all the handicap rules and adjust the length of the main so that the electrics need to make one stop. A nitro can make a bunch of stops in the time it takes to change a battery.
Last edited by Zerodefect; 07-28-2009 at 10:30 AM.
07-28-2009, 10:36 AM
#15
i understand that you dont like e cars. but they have just as much of a right to run as me you and the next guy thats why its called club racing and not a pro series race or nitro chall, or some other big race. Club racing are for the people that want to have fun and run their cars and trucks just like you and me.