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Old 06-15-2009, 09:03 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Marcus Falconie View Post
and I might get another 3port Werks motor soon.
I have one of them for ya Marcus.
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Old 06-15-2009, 09:17 PM   #62
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I have one of them for ya Marcus.
I know I have that free Fusion mod I won at the Nitro pit I think with some work and the right pipe that motor will go 12min, I know the new ABI 3 port will go 12. I dont know how close the two are but it would be fun to see what we can get it to do. I will bring the mod cert with me to SRS wed, You can have it
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:44 PM   #63
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Old 06-16-2009, 06:45 AM   #64
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Marcus with all due respect, you know like I know the only reason why fuel
makers put dye in their fuel is MARKETING not performance. Bashers and
beginners are about 80% percent of the R/C market and they like to see cool
colors in their fuel tanks. So most fuel makers look at their bottom line put
performance aside and ad color to their fuel. Not being able to see clear fuel
in your tank as racers is BS. I've been racing on-road and off-road for over 10
years and that has never been an issue. Are you sponsered by Torco?

Werks I have alot of respect for you and your racers only company. I have
heard alot good of thinks about your products. I would love to try your fuel,
but it is hard to find and I run Novarossi's at their recommended 25% I think
you only make 30%.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:08 AM   #65
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Default Freshness counts!!

Werks, I appreciate your naturally curious nature and I'm certain our sport is the better for it! I also appreciate your willingness to openly discuss not only your products but processes as well. One thing we can all agree on is that having choices is vitally important to rc racing. As a fuel manufacturer I'm certain you'd agree that other important factors to consider when making your choice are product freshness and consistancy. I think these factors are often overlooked, and get lost in product content discussions like oil percentages and the like. When a racer grabs a bottle of fuel at his LHS he/she really has no idea how long it's been sitting there or just how old it is. The fresher the fuel the better, and you certainly want each and every bottle to be consistant.

It's clear that each of us has our favorites for a reason, and I don't believe in bashing other products simply because someone chose differenly than I did. That's what makes this country so great...the freedom to choose as we please. One of the reasons I've gravitated to Cold Fusion fuel beyond it's performance factors is the guarantee of freshness and consistancy. It's mixed in small quantities usually to order, and the product is always the same bottle-to-bottle. I appreciate that fact and the benefits my engine realizes because of it. That's in no way meant as a negative comment on how your's or Torco's or anyone elses are made, just a positive comment on my fuel of choice based upon my knowledge of the product.

It's nice that we can debate without bashing, and I hope it continues! Keep up the good work guys!!
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Old 06-16-2009, 01:23 PM   #66
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Nitro-X all the way!!!
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:58 PM   #67
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Gearhead Racer, what are you hum...'ing about? If you have a question or comment please feel free to post it. I'm a straight shooter and can take it also, there's nothing worse than cryptic comments.

Pimp_9000. In a nutshell you want to either increase the size of the brass vent tubes (using larger diameter tuber) or increase the amount of them using a larger amount (more) of the smaller diameter tubes. The old ones would need to be removed and the gun modified to accept the new ones and then these would be brazed in. Fuel guns are gravity fed but if there is not enough air being fed into the rear of the gun (this replaces the fuel that goes into the tank) a vacuum can form slowing the fuel flow. I've played with Collari's in the past and at that time his was modified to have seven small diameter vent tubes. It was really, really fast.

Mike thanks for the response and clarification. This makes a little more sense, in your post on the other thread you said that there was the same amount of oil's left which is why I questioned the results. Regarding the oil content that you mentioned in your post this should be easily attainable using the Klotz that they use. From my testing with their oil it is possible to run a minimum of 8% oil using a combination of their synthetic and castor oil without resulting in what I would consider unacceptable levels of engine wear in the hands of a knowledgeable tuner. Unfortunately this is also the key words "knowledgeable tuner". I've tested oil packages that can be run without a problem down to 4% but how do you sell this? Way too much variation in skill levels amongst the "average tuner" and these are unfortunately the majority of the purchasers and the ones we have to make sure can safely use our products

On a side note I'm glad that you have used our products in the past and have liked them and appreciate the fact that the Torco guys make good products and take good care of the guys in AZ. However my questions/comments/statements have nothing to do with any of that nor Torco's product specifically (with the exception of the question directly related the evaporation results from your test). For some reason everyone here in the US and on our forums specifically seem to be so hyper sensitive about having simple discussions/information exchanges. They (talking in general here not specifically about you) always seem to believe that simply because some one states something that might not necisarrely jibe with their expectations/thoughts on a product, is counter intuitive or whatever that they are "bashing a product".

It's really kind of sad and unfortunately one of the reasons that you do not find a lot of business owners or decision makers posting on forums other than to maybe just quickly pump their products for a second. Most of us avoid these places like the plague simply because it always seems to turn into some type of bash fest instead of an intelligent discussion/debate. Unfortunately the only ones that end up loosing out because of this are the users. Frankly and I do not like saying this but here in the US we have some of the best drivers in the world but also some of the least technologically savvy hobbyists.

I'm a naturally curious person and started my business partially because I questioned why things had to be done a certain way. This questioning resulted in us developing the first 5 port .12's with Picco because why does a .12 only have to have 3 ports? The creation of the outlaw touring class for sedan, because why cant there be 1/10th lola's and all of the parts to make a faster touring car? Making the first .30 and .32 dedicated car engines (not helicopter motors), because you cant beat more displacement! Producing the first stock engine with a lightened cooling head, because why should customers have to buy an expensive motor and then have to buy and aftermarket cooling head too? Creating one of the few true competition level fuel that the average driver can buy at the time, because why should we sell one fuel and then have our team drivers use a completely different version that we don't sell? Etc. etc. etc. This is where innovation comes from. Heck look at Losi, why do all 1/8th scale cars have to look alike? resulted in the Eight! Ok, just noticed how long this got....getting off my soap box now lol!!!
Im sorry! Just one part of your post i found weird at first.
"The lack of any performance benefit and discoloration of the internals is why several of the US made racing fuels (O'Donnell, our Werks, Gil's Nitrotane and Byrons (though it's G2 has a very, very slight tint to it)) are made as clear fuels."
I cant remember where, but someone told me the dye did help performance. Like i said i cant remember where, well it was when i first started rc last August. Just i never gave it thought after that. Your the perfessional, so if you say it is this way then it is that way.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:39 PM   #68
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:10 PM   #69
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:18 PM   #70
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Hey everyone,
Just to clarify, Dye does not take away or rob any horsepower whatsoever never has never will with the technology behind the burn rate of a dye once blended with a combustable you wont notice it that is what these dyes are made for specifically. We provide nitro dyed yellow to top fuel dragster, funny cars and hydro boats that make 8,000 horsepower and believe me those guys fight for every inch of performance they can get. Fuel comes clear (most of the time), Nitro and Methanol comes clear they are dyed to distinguish different octanes and fuel types. there it no secret behind it. It has been proven on many dynos that dye has no affect AT ALL on the performance! Oil comes black untill its refined then its a golden brown or a yellow clearish depending on the use. Torco oil -our sister company- (www.torcoracingoils.com) dyes it whatever color we want them to, we decided to use red because its our logo color so why not have Torco Red Rc Nitro, we have produced 25% with (9% oil that was blue, and 30% 10% that was green. Color really does nothing but it is easier to see in a tank than clear. I think marcus was just curious more than anything to do an evaporation test, Works you have a great fuel I have heard, I have not pearsonally ran it through our lab but heard its really good..competition is healthy for business, I would never bash another fuel company myself even though we have tested in our lab and broked down most of the RC fuels out there and know exactly the components and the percentages and they might not all be consistant as they say

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Old 06-17-2009, 10:03 AM   #71
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:38 AM   #72
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Hey ron,
you are correct it wont make power or increase anything...

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Old 06-17-2009, 10:38 AM   #73
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The dye makes ZERO differance in RC Engines on the dyno, we ran 4 different motors total and the dye did absolutly nothing! There is and never will be a performance adder with dye its not possible torco has tested its dyes and it will not gain performance but will not lose either , even in a RC Engine. I have had a pro off road driver run it and test it and it had more power than he expected. He will remain nameless untill he comes on board with torco which is in the works but he is one of the worlds best pro drivers around. The only thing the dye does is used to tell what fuel is what, thats pretty much it..People cant be scared becuase someone not a (fuel person)posts that dye is not good and you could lose power when they DO NOT know how it works when combusted even in a RC engine, the burn rate is more in an RC engine than a car race engine making it even less noticable if it did make a differance.. 8,000 horsepower or 3 horespower dye will not take away power or affect the engine other than making it maybe a anodized look in the motor, which could be cool looking..

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Old 06-17-2009, 11:06 AM   #74
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I have ran Gen 2 for awhile now. Kinda was trying both 20% and 30%. I have 2 fairly fresh motors one is a turbo plug and one is standard. I've mainly been running the 20% and my cars were running primo. I took them to the races this weekend and got them tuned up to run the 30%. They ran alright through most of the qualifiers until the last minute my head on my go 28 standard came lose and I was up to 340* when i temped it. I got it running for the main but i just couldnt get it to hold a tune. I am going to go back to the 20% gen 2. Seems to work well with my Go engines.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:22 AM   #75
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I have ran Gen 2 for awhile now. Kinda was trying both 20% and 30%. I have 2 fairly fresh motors one is a turbo plug and one is standard. I've mainly been running the 20% and my cars were running primo. I took them to the races this weekend and got them tuned up to run the 30%. They ran alright through most of the qualifiers until the last minute my head on my go 28 standard came lose and I was up to 340* when i temped it. I got it running for the main but i just couldnt get it to hold a tune. I am going to go back to the 20% gen 2. Seems to work well with my Go engines.
The lower the percentage of nitro in the fuel the easier it is to tune. But switching from 20% to 30% will not make that drastic of a temp increase maybe 10 or 15 degrees but not 100. That engine needs to be checked for an air leak. I dont think its the fuel unless you got a bad bottle of fuel.
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