R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-24-2009, 06:49 AM   #106
Tech Master
 
pitpop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banter View Post
Yes, I'm saying that if you don't want idiots posting to a thread, don't bump the damn thing to the top of the board. Thought that was pretty clear.
don't be so hard on yourself
__________________
Cody King's Wrench (and dad :))| Team Kyosho International | Reds Racing Engines | Pro-Line Tires
KO Propo | Byron Fuels | AbsoluteHobbyz.com | Stickit1 Racing | kustomrcgraphics.com
LiveRC.com | OCRC Raceway | codykingrc.com | ROAR Sanctioning Director
pitpop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 08:38 AM   #107
Tech Addict
 
IanWright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: If i'm not in England i'm in Southern California
Posts: 532
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to IanWright
Default

Associated = D Plates, plastics.

Xray = Diff bearings.

Hotbodies = Driveshafts

Losi 2.0 = Shock Towers


All the cars upon release throw up issues. I take the view and judge by how the company deals with those issues, and this is in anything, any industry. My example is computers, i run a LOT of tech and software... if i want to sit on the cutting edge and use or play with new stuff i accept there is a risk you take in complications. If i need something to work because i have money riding on a time scale do not try something new and i do not update until i know the bugs and can fix them myself or a fix comes through.

This is in fact the case in ANY industry, and we are all playing in an industry ecosystem here.

Here's the only thing i can see will make an impact on cars coming out with issues... chassis manufacturers testing with club racers before release. Run some closed and private racing with them, see what breaks. Pro's can pick a car apart peformance and develop them, club guys will crash them, beat them up and so on.
Of course a program to develop a chassis like that would add anything from 3 months to a year on a chassis, before in the field full on racing development begins.

In my case, i have run the RC8 since it came out knowing i was in for the ride. Associated have backed it up superbly all the way, going from frustration to just being outright impressed with durability and performance. 8 months ago i had trouble recommending it to anyone that wasn't mechanically minded and prepared for a maintenence above the norm... now any new racer i can recommend it to. That's a companies first car in 1/8th.

My point there is not to be an AE fanboy, but that a company has a vested interest in developing a car an ironing out is problems, the MP9 is still brand new. My experience is the Kyosho team are very approachable, helpful. If i wasn't so heavily invested in my RC8 and looking for a car i wouldn't be dissuaded by internet sensationalism. This happens with every car. Anyone thinking about the Kyosho i would suggest watching the car at the track, read the specific MP9 thread on this forum through and see what people are doing with the car and what the actual problems are and what the solutions are, as well as what the team guys are doing. Pro's are just that, generally approachable, knowledgable and into helping people with their products... talk to them, talk to the club guys running them and remember a new car is pretty much Public Beta for at least 6 months.
IanWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 09:42 AM   #108
Tech Fanatic
 
Allumina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 939
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Allumina
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRussian View Post
Sigh. And you are a top Pro sponsored racer, right?
1. Sure every car breaks, however some more than others, and when many people have problems in the same area, enough for it to be widely known thats called a FLAW, imho. Assoc. acknowledged it on their RC8 and released a service pack.
2. So you saw top Pros running the car and going fast on tracks, so now you have reached the conclusion that wow, all these complaints MUST be wrong. Sound logic you have there, yet you toss around dumbest and dumb like you are an R/C legend.
3. So Kelby's MP9 slammed into degani's Z-Car and broke something. Please link where anyone has said its indestructable? ANY car will break when a 8 lb missile hits it wrong (duh?).
4. You statement is so clueless I hardly know where to start. Defends its 60 foot times for any reason?? So I guess 1:1 car magazines 0-60 times are hogwash? 1/4 mile times? Why do tests exist, Quincy, do expound, since you seem to know everything (take your time)? Are you capable of comprehending empirical data gathered from tests? DO you understand that Xtreme RC has good drivers that DO race and try hard to make the tests standardized? As well, I plainly explained that the one test is not the deciding factor on whether to buy a car or not, but its certainly food for thought. Was that really too much for you to comprehend, rather than your "dumbest defense" statement? Personally I appreciate Xtreme rcs in depth testing of vehicles, and their efforts to provide as much data as possible to racers....at least the ones who can understand it

Your arguments and logic are like a screen door on a submarine...cute, decorative, but in the end full of holes and useless.
If you want to debate like adults cease the name calling, and try and debate with this thing called LOGIC

There is a distinct difference between testing the 0-60 on a road car, and testing the 0-60 time in an OFFROAD remote control car. Part of the reason the magzine tests are a joke [atleast in my opinion] is that this is dirt, and its ALWAYS different. As a 1:1 sprintcar driver, I can tell you the enormous difference in traction between a freshly prepped track, to a cured [mudpacked; ready to race] track, to a dryslick ["washed out" in r/c terms] track all of which can occur in an hour if the conditions are right.

Don't get me wrong, I love the mag's as much as the next guy, and buy every issue, every month and enjoy reading the testing articles etc, i'm just saying as a rule of thumb, there are a huge number of variables in testing an offroad vehicles rate of acceleration [regardless of scale], which makes the data gained from the test hold little water or relevance in my opinion.
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]Kyosho[/COLOR] - MP9 & ST-RR
A[COLOR="red"]K[/COLOR]A - Tires and Wheels[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Novarossi Racing Engines[/COLOR] - 21-4 Plus & Toro Nero
Houstons Engine Service - [email]houstonsengineservice@live.com[/email]
Allumina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 09:45 AM   #109
Tech Fanatic
 
Allumina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 939
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Allumina
Default

Plus, and I could be wrong about this one, don't they test a different damn motor in every car? I know for a fact when they tested the Xray 808 when it came out they had an RB C6 BB in it, and thats the only times I recall them testing with a mostermash C6
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]Kyosho[/COLOR] - MP9 & ST-RR
A[COLOR="red"]K[/COLOR]A - Tires and Wheels[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Novarossi Racing Engines[/COLOR] - 21-4 Plus & Toro Nero
Houstons Engine Service - [email]houstonsengineservice@live.com[/email]
Allumina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 10:08 AM   #110
Tech Fanatic
 
Allumina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 939
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Allumina
Default

Ok pulled a few old issues, here's just a couple examples:

XRC Car mag - December 2008

Hot Bodies D8
engine: Trinity Extech EB mods race prep .21
Track conditions: slightly packed dirt
Temp/humidity: 85f 45%

XRC Car mag - September 2008

GS Racing CL-1 Advanced
engine: RB concept S5, powerhouse modded
Track conditions: loose, sandy surface
Temp/humidity: 88f 23%

XRC Car mag - January 2009

Mugen MBX6
engine: Mugen Ninja JX21-B01
Track Conditions: Medium Grip
Temp/humidity: 81f 23%

XRC Car mag - February 2009

Losi 8IGHT 2.0
engine: GRP .21 Buggy Tuned Line
Track conditions: semi-dry powdery
Temp/humidity: 72f 45%

I mean theres just a couple examples, all different track surface descriptions, all different motors, pretty large deviation in temp/humidity. not trying to start any wars, just some facts!
__________________
[COLOR="Red"]Kyosho[/COLOR] - MP9 & ST-RR
A[COLOR="red"]K[/COLOR]A - Tires and Wheels[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Novarossi Racing Engines[/COLOR] - 21-4 Plus & Toro Nero
Houstons Engine Service - [email]houstonsengineservice@live.com[/email]
Allumina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 10:50 AM   #111
Tech Lord
 
Jaz240's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Dwindle city
Posts: 12,492
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allumina View Post
not trying to start any wars, just some facts!
The war started 3 pages ago! I would like to know how somebody posting that he was very unhappy with the quality of his MP9 became a comparison thread between the MP9 and the Z car? I would guess my AZZHOLE nephew had some hand in it, but it didn't seem like he started it..whatever..I saw Jarod and Cody at The Nitro Challenge on Sunday and both of them were kicking butt with their MP9's...there are 2 guys who run them every week here at The Nitro Pit and I haven't seen any broken arms..Actually I see more Broken Mugen arms than any other car..that wouldn't stop me from buying one though....
__________________
nothing to see here................................
Jaz240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 11:31 AM   #112
Tech Regular
 
smracer31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 425
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to smracer31
Default

This thread is hilarious! i think it needs to be stickied for comedic purposes.

On another note, i saw it mentioned but nobody else brought it up, im not sure how kyosho's manufacturing process and distribution works but if they are out sourcing there parts to different manufactures(or plastic companies) you may be getting different parts than we are state side. You may try ordering a set of arms from a-main hobbies, i think they ship internationaly and see if that doesn't cure your problem.

I also want to point out that i think we have all been in the same position that the OP has been in, when we spend our hard earned dollars on a car that doesn't live up to our own expectations it is frustrating. I raced on-road for a long time and i know I felt that way several times and wanted to just throw the car in the trash can at times. So stick with the K-car im sure the problems will be ironed out over time like all the top buggies on the market, it just takes time.
smracer31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 12:21 PM   #113
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 75
Default

i drive in italy, i no see arms broke of mp9 for now... i see a coupple of upper front arms, some diff case(the old, and people that not change it...)

my mp9 i think is very strong.

its a LOL thread
amonmp9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 03:19 PM   #114
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 139
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

I really don't know why I'm degrading myself by responding to someone who is obviously a complete idiot, and isn't going to let me convince him he's not a rocket scientist. I am not a top pro, but I do work at a hobby shop and I have driven my fair share of cars. Anyone who races anything offroad can tell you that testing an offroad RC car for 0-60ft times is a worthless test. I'm not saying that all tests done by magazines are not worth reading, quite the contrary, but I guess that assumption could be made. I was not attacking the Z-Car either, but YOU were the one that brought up how strong the car was, I was simply saying that the car is not indestructible, every car breaks, LIKE I SAID! And if your going to tell me to cease the name calling, I believe you are the one acting like a 12 year old girl in this situation, I never called anyone names (in my first post), I simply said the defense was dumb and it was a dumb test, would you prefer I called it asinine?
Need I remind you that we are testing OFFROAD RC CARS for 0-60 times, not full scale onroad cars straight off the showroom floor. There are too many variables in track conditions and equipment to consider this a valid test. I would respect a side by side lap time test between the two cars run on the same track with similar conditions and running equipment, right down to the clutch springs, RC MAGAZINES DO RUN these tests, go find one. To any magazine editor or otherwise that might be reading this, I am in no way bashing tests run by mag's, I find some to be very informative, just not in this particular case.
As far as my seeing a pro driver drive his car and basing my opinion on that, I have been good friends with Kelby Roberts for years, I have seen him drive many cars and I race with him regularly, I respect his opinions as well as his driving abilities. While he might be considered a Pro, he is an equal in my eyes as I race with him (and get beat by him) weekly. I have yet to see him complain about any major parts breakage on the car, with the exception of a diff case issue that has been resolved by the company. So as far as my assuming that these complaints must be false, I wasn't assuming nearly as much about a car as you were about my background and intelligence.

And yes, I can comprehend the data gathered from testing, I also know when to base my opinions on what I read in tests, do you? Go ahead and continue insulting people online, I'm sure it does wonders for the company you are trying to promote.

Piss off
Chris

By the way, you can feel free to respond to this, but I won't bother reading it.
cfr7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 03:35 PM   #115
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 649
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitpop View Post
first let me say that I should not even dignify this thread with a post, but I am going to go ahead and do it... why? because I want to express my disappointment with the administrators of this forum for one thing... a thread of this nature should not even be allowed on RC Tech. If this is tolerated, then my opinion of this forum just went down hill... any thread that unabashedly calls out a product and says "don't buy it" is purely malicious in nature and obnoxiously negative... JMO nothing constructive about it.

as for the arms, you're right, they don't see some huge problem... the sales of the arms or replacement of them have not been out of the ordinary. People hit stuff and they break, simple as that. Each and every time we broke and arm (twice), we deserved to be broken. We just finished a long week at a VERY demanding, hard packed, and difficult track, and finished a nasty 45 minute main... NO issues. Did we crash? You bet!

That's about all I can say in this thread. byby now
Didn't see you objecting to any of the others bashings on this forum. KoyToy guys are sensitive.

You may not like it, but it is called "FREEDOM OF SPEECH".
SPEEDSKI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 03:41 PM   #116
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,715
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Default

your all idiots
thanks
Mo Denton
__________________
Mo Denton-www.mnkraceway.com
Team Losi
Proline,-Redrock Hobbies-,VP Powermaster fuel,Darkside Designs,Speedy Bills!
fast for an old guy
Mo Denton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 03:57 PM   #117
Tech Addict
 
IanWright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: If i'm not in England i'm in Southern California
Posts: 532
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to IanWright
Default

It's comedic people declaring freedom of speech as an excuse to say anything on a forum. A forum is controlled by moderators and works to terms and conditions for members that are designed to keep forums respectful and pleasant to take part in. A thread like this is down to the admins discretion, freedom of speech does not come into it. Personally, i would not like to make the call and i am a very experienced moderator, it will come down to what they want this forum to be. A slanging match and unreasonable over the top declarations not to buy a major brand is probably not what they want and their influence is probably needed here in some way.

Last edited by IanWright; 02-24-2009 at 04:31 PM.
IanWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:05 PM   #118
Tech Elite
 
MadRussian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SE USA
Posts: 2,378
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allumina View Post
Ok pulled a few old issues, here's just a couple examples:

XRC Car mag - December 2008

Hot Bodies D8
engine: Trinity Extech EB mods race prep .21
Track conditions: slightly packed dirt
Temp/humidity: 85f 45%

XRC Car mag - September 2008

GS Racing CL-1 Advanced
engine: RB concept S5, powerhouse modded
Track conditions: loose, sandy surface
Temp/humidity: 88f 23%

XRC Car mag - January 2009

Mugen MBX6
engine: Mugen Ninja JX21-B01
Track Conditions: Medium Grip
Temp/humidity: 81f 23%

XRC Car mag - February 2009

Losi 8IGHT 2.0
engine: GRP .21 Buggy Tuned Line
Track conditions: semi-dry powdery
Temp/humidity: 72f 45%

I mean theres just a couple examples, all different track surface descriptions, all different motors, pretty large deviation in temp/humidity. not trying to start any wars, just some facts!
Certainly, I enjoy debating when addressed with a modicum of respect, and will respond with equal respect.
I understand what your point is, and what you are saying.
But..
Look at Motor Trend, or Car and Driver, road and track etc.
They test different cars with different motors in varying humidity and weather conditions, as its impossible to recreate exact conditions, and of course the car engines are different, as they are different cars.
Same with motorcycle magazines, they test in different countries sometimes, and of course with different engines as well.

I never stated that the example I posted was "the" or only answer to all the criteria one would use for a choice of buggy, but everybody sure assumed I though it was.
However it was interesting that of almost all the buggies tested the Z-Car was the fastest 0-60 ft? In fact I have been searching but I havent found a faster buggy time, a few close though.
So I felt it was an interesting tidbit of info that a $800 buggy compared to a $469 buggy that is slightly heavier, and with a less powerful engine, with SH tires that ship with the kit, against the AKAs the Kyosho comes with beat it by almost a half a sec in the tests.

Xtreme RC is not infallible, but until there is another magazine, 3rd party, or website that chooses to perform tests as they do, I guess its about the ONLY yardstick we have at the moment as they are the only ones that imho really test and provide results. I appreciate as well their Xdyno testing of every engine that comes through their mag. They attempt to provide us with as close as possible (of course perfected standardized testing really does not exist, except in a lab environment, where every possible variable is controlled) test results as a basis for comparison so that we may examine the data and use it, along with any actual hands on or physical experience, as information on making a smart informed decision on which buggy to buy.

Personally I think the $800+ price for the MP9 is high, and as such, it better be an equivalent amount of performance/durability better. Its not. Thats my issue with it. I dont think the price is fair for racers, especially with the issues with durability and drivability.

My point was that a buggy for half the cost (even more than if you catch a sale) less hp by a 1/3, ordinary tires, outaccelerated by almost a half a second in 0-60 ft times. So it had all the disadvantages of: less hp, not as good tires, and slightly more weight... When you combine all that, and then add the cost of the MP 9 to it, the end result was most interesting to me.

If the MP9 was priced CLOSE to other top tier buggies, I could be more tolerant of its issues, but when they put it on a pedestal as their pricing has, it had better perform and last an equivalent level.

This is an expensive enough hobby, if a company is gonna hammer the racers wallets, then the goods should be worth it. Thats my whole point.
MadRussian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:22 PM   #119
Tech Master
 
pitpop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,445
Default delusional

RC Tech has nothing to do with "freedom of speech", (duh) it has everything to do with horrible administration
__________________
Cody King's Wrench (and dad :))| Team Kyosho International | Reds Racing Engines | Pro-Line Tires
KO Propo | Byron Fuels | AbsoluteHobbyz.com | Stickit1 Racing | kustomrcgraphics.com
LiveRC.com | OCRC Raceway | codykingrc.com | ROAR Sanctioning Director
pitpop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2009, 04:29 PM   #120
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 649
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitpop View Post
RC Tech has nothing to do with "freedom of speech", (duh) it has everything to do with horrible administration

And nothing to do with the fact you drive a Kyosho?????, I am not bashing anything, the guy can say what he wants!
SPEEDSKI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Inferno MP9 thread captain america Nitro Off-Road 20015 05-19-2017 02:14 AM
Kyosho Inferno VE UK.hardcore Electric Off-Road 95 08-29-2010 08:22 AM
losi 2.0 vs. mp9 patrick lsp Nitro Off-Road 53 04-11-2009 03:42 AM
thoughts on the new KYOSHO MP9?????????????? JOEHULL Nitro Off-Road 14 01-05-2009 10:22 PM
Kyosho MP9 compared to Hot Bodies D8 xpertpredator Nitro Off-Road 121 12-23-2008 02:33 PM
what buggy to buy F-1 Nitro Off-Road 37 10-08-2008 09:51 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:34 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net