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Old 02-18-2009, 09:30 AM   #61
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I agree with most, at a club level, run them together but score them seperate. At a sanctioned event, yes, they need thier own class and own race. As far as them having an advantage over the nitro guys, i'm not so sure about that. They are definately alot harder to drive because the power and the torque are there, NOW, as soon as you pull the trigger. It's kinda like taking a Rossi motor and putting like a 10t clutchbell on it. You'll have more wheel spin and wild handling then anything. Plus, when you're at a race that has a 30 min or 45 min main, they'll have to change batteries, which is EXTREMELY time consuming compared to a 5 sec pit stop for fuel. I've never seen one of those buggies have usable power past 20 min.

ADDED: Also, if the guy is good enough to drive an electric and click off good laps with it, that guy is still gonna woop you on the track with a nitro buggy too
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:42 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by bgbelden View Post
From my view,
Don't lipo's last 20 minutes?
Pit stops ? (true story)They were mandatory and when they didn't do the "fake" pit they still got to bump to the "A".
Weight? Are speed controler's really as heavy as fuel ?
Batteries ? I've got one in my car controlling my stuff too like both servo's i need to run.
Mod'd motors ? I'm just as slow with my cheapy motor as when i had my V-specs, as long as it last the whole main i'm good.
Turn Marshalling ? Yeah i do have you beat there because i can redline my motor to get your attention and i'm guilty of failing to flip over an electric once.
Verdict = for club racing with not enough to form a class i would rather the few cars race with nitro and make for a fuller track than to turn M a field of say 3 quiet, boring, cars.


Fuel is light compared to the batteries+electronics we have to run.

My elec 8ight easily weighs over 8oz heavier then my nitro 8ight.

Other then the battery chemistry, there is no comparison of your lipo rx pack to my 800g 6s lipo brick.

at big events, setup right, and with pro drivers, they are faster then nitros, but for club racing guarantee if i can win my my electric, i could have won with my nitro.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:27 AM   #63
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Sheesh, I thought this was settled long ago.

Club level: Run them together. Adjust the length of the main to favor the Nitro cars. (You have to err in favor of nitro 'cause they're folowing the rules) 30 min and hour amains should even it up. 1 battery change is as long as 2-3 pits for fuel. If have plenty of good racing, then split the class.

If your keeping the classes toether then its a run what ya brung race. Drop in an OS .28 xz and a truggy tank. That'll even the power odds some. (in buggy maybe)



Trophy level: split the classes, you have plenty of racers.


Lets not alienate the electric cars. Maybe indoor offroad racing will pick up some 'cause of them.

Besides there really isn't much to complain about 'till electric starts winning. And the Losi E-9ines I've seen didn't really go any faster than us.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:35 AM   #64
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You guys just dont get it..The "CLUB" level is where your getting all the new and for the most inexperienced drivers, also your getting a lot of guys that are thinking about racing..at most hobby shops nitro sells better than electric..so what "form" of power do you think most guys are going to show up with to race..Nitro..Now as far as top speed goes an electric is going to beat a nitro..they come out of the corners harder and therefore will reach top speed sooner..even non racers can tell the difference.. but what I find amazing is the same group of guys that have 1/8th scale electric are on this thread saying that things are equal as far as power goes..but go on an electric thread and read how they are saying that electric just kills nitro..need further proof..go to an on road race and look at the lap times of electric and then look at the lap times of nitro..at our local track in the 19 turn class I was 2 laps faster than the pro nitro guys (this was on a med. size track)..xlgraphicspro..wait till the fast guys start running electric..you guys attitudes towards club racing just amazes me..no wonder club racing is dieing..nothing matters as long as YOU are having fun (are you guys the same ones who run 19 turn motors in stock..it's only club racing..so it doesnt matter..right)..doesn't matter if anyone else is..you guys build a car/truggy knowing that their is no class for..yet, and when you guys show up everyone is suppose to cater to you....and one last thing..Electric 1/8th scale costs way more than nitro..up front..be honest and say just how much you spent on your conversion..a guy can buy an entry level RTR buggy for under $300 and race it..and another funny thing about you guys pointing out the costs of nitro motors..do all the electric brushless motors and speed controllers cost the same, are they all equal in power..nope..huge difference in prices also..plus why should a race director take a chance on losing regular racers so he can get one or two racers..looks like a wash to me..If I was a race director the electric guys would not run with the nitro guys, i would let them practice (for free) and run in between rounds to get interest in that class but i would not take a chance on losing nitro racers..and yes I have been a race director and track owner before..I saw the same thing happen in the monster truck class, guys with truggies started showing up..at first one or two, they bitched and whined so we let them race with the MT's..locally it just killed our biggest class, it's never recovered and the local hobby shops sell MT's 20 to 1 over buggies and truggies..but hey you guys are selfish and i understand..its all about you..
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:21 PM   #65
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You guys just dont get it..The "CLUB" level is where your getting all the new and for the most inexperienced drivers, also your getting a lot of guys that are thinking about racing..at most hobby shops nitro sells better than electric..so what "form" of power do you think most guys are going to show up with to race..Nitro..Now as far as top speed goes an electric is going to beat a nitro..they come out of the corners harder and therefore will reach top speed sooner..even non racers can tell the difference.. but what I find amazing is the same group of guys that have 1/8th scale electric are on this thread saying that things are equal as far as power goes..but go on an electric thread and read how they are saying that electric just kills nitro..need further proof..go to an on road race and look at the lap times of electric and then look at the lap times of nitro..at our local track in the 19 turn class I was 2 laps faster than the pro nitro guys (this was on a med. size track)..xlgraphicspro..wait till the fast guys start running electric..you guys attitudes towards club racing just amazes me..no wonder club racing is dieing..nothing matters as long as YOU are having fun (are you guys the same ones who run 19 turn motors in stock..it's only club racing..so it doesnt matter..right)..doesn't matter if anyone else is..you guys build a car/truggy knowing that their is no class for..yet, and when you guys show up everyone is suppose to cater to you....and one last thing..Electric 1/8th scale costs way more than nitro..up front..be honest and say just how much you spent on your conversion..a guy can buy an entry level RTR buggy for under $300 and race it..and another funny thing about you guys pointing out the costs of nitro motors..do all the electric brushless motors and speed controllers cost the same, are they all equal in power..nope..huge difference in prices also..plus why should a race director take a chance on losing regular racers so he can get one or two racers..looks like a wash to me..If I was a race director the electric guys would not run with the nitro guys, i would let them practice (for free) and run in between rounds to get interest in that class but i would not take a chance on losing nitro racers..and yes I have been a race director and track owner before..I saw the same thing happen in the monster truck class, guys with truggies started showing up..at first one or two, they bitched and whined so we let them race with the MT's..locally it just killed our biggest class, it's never recovered and the local hobby shops sell MT's 20 to 1 over buggies and truggies..but hey you guys are selfish and i understand..its all about you..
Out here in CA club racing is dying because BIG races and series races are rampant. Everyone is saving tires, motors, fuel, and money by skipping club racing. Period.

1/8th Electrics are faster out of corners, and have more "power/torque", but they are poorly balanced, heavy, and you cant run a 45 minute A main. Also its not a motor sport, and it has a toyish feel. Most 1/8th scale RC racers like the sound of the motor and the "SKILL" it takes to tune. So maybe "faster" isn't the point.

I say run the electric buggies with nitro's. However, you cant adjust the race length for those few electric guys, so they wont even finish the race because they have electrics, too bad. Maybe once you have 5-10 electrics around you can then start a class for them. Electrics will catch on eventually, but the most competitive class will be 1/8 gas buggy for a long time.


just my two cents..
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:41 PM   #66
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they shouldnt race together period.
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:06 PM   #67
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Oasis-
I am curious if you have actually tried running a converted car in a race to experience the advantage for yourself. I used to have a similar attitude untill I tried it. I went from a top 4 racer to a bottom 4.

The guys in the electric thread saying "electric kills nitro" are just wagging their e penis. They are faster in a drag race but in the hands of the average person, they are slower overall (I sure am anyways). Same reason why most go with a .21 in a truggy instead of .28, too much uselses power. Comparing on road traction to off road racing isnt really a good analysis though.

No one is saying cater to the E class, just let them play too. Run by the nitro rules. An E that is going to be able to run 20-30 minute mains is going to have a brick for a battery and the balance is going to be crap unless he does a battery swap and loses a couple laps. Forget everything you read that says "I can drive mine for 45 minutes on 1 charge", that is a load of BS. 15 minutes is the max for most at race speed, 20 minutes if you go extra slow and baby it.

Who said 1/8 E was cheaper????? Maybe in the long run after fuel/starter box/engine rebuilds are taken into account but for the most part, it is probably comparable. E is huge money up front though.

I always thought lack of reliability and overall handling/fun is what killed MT. At least around here it has. It is a race of attrition. Very rarely does more than half of the trucks survive 3 qualifiers, let alone have more than 2 or 3 survive a 15 minute main. Not hard to see why no one races that class anymore.

Greedy- Yup, I am, it is all about me. 3 of us (2 of us are E guys) out of about 50-60 racers do all the work for the clubs track (city owned, not for profit), maintenance, organizing and running events, bringing the equipment, I marshall near every single race, groom/water the track throughout the day without help etc. I am so greedy that I was going to quit, just because I was having a hard time keeping my truck running/clean/tuned etc. My warmup laps were usually the first race laps of the qualifiers. My free time during the week to go tune was spent repairing the track.

Ok so that last paragraph was more whiney and argumentative but you can see my point, untill the class is big enough, why not have the E guys race together with the nitros. When there are enough that they can have their own points series, split it then. Again, club level only. I race with the nitros in the big events but I am only there as a spoiler, my points dont count and I couldnt care less.

No matter how much you can try to stiffle it, things will evolve. It is still a few years away but 1/8 E is probably going to be that next evolutionary step. Might as well jump on the band wagon and help support it.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:30 PM   #68
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everyone needs to think back when Gas truck started out they ran with e 1/10 truck and so same thing was brought up about it being unfair. but look everyone made it though it. Another thing is if the people running the race is letting E run with 1/8 nitro for a cash race and big event then it sounds like we need to be talking to the the people running the races not the people racing. I also dont know any major race that lets that happen. Club level and big seires races like the rc pro are on to diff levels. Its like any sport not matter what happens not everyone is going to be happy no matter what. IF you dont like running with E or Nitro then run some bigger races. The whole reason behind this hobby is to have fun like any other hobby and no matter how are we try or want to there are a handful of people that make it big. I run nitro myself and dont mind E racing with me at a club level but you will not see the two run in the same class in a big race. For those of you crying about it if you dont like your more then welcome to go and build you own track and run what you want or dont want and can make your own rule.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:43 PM   #69
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The newbie club racing argument was weak. If they're new it won't matter that they're racing against an electric.

Nitro is still going to be preferred. The electrics are faster in a straight line but that seems to hurt them as much as it helps we aren't going from a dead stop more than once and as the track dusts up all that extra power is wasted. Nitro cars aren't exactly slow. The biggest advantage I've seen is the electric cars brakes.

Still 1/8th scale is about pit stops, long mains, noise, smoke, etc. Electrics are slow at battery changes and can't make time.

Your not going to see 'em running together at big races so is this really a big deal.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:05 PM   #70
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Oasis-
I am curious if you have actually tried running a converted car in a race to experience the advantage for yourself. I used to have a similar attitude untill I tried it. I went from a top 4 racer to a bottom 4.

The guys in the electric thread saying "electric kills nitro" are just wagging their e penis. They are faster in a drag race but in the hands of the average person, they are slower overall (I sure am anyways). Same reason why most go with a .21 in a truggy instead of .28, too much uselses power. Comparing on road traction to off road racing isnt really a good analysis though.

No one is saying cater to the E class, just let them play too. Run by the nitro rules. An E that is going to be able to run 20-30 minute mains is going to have a brick for a battery and the balance is going to be crap unless he does a battery swap and loses a couple laps. Forget everything you read that says "I can drive mine for 45 minutes on 1 charge", that is a load of BS. 15 minutes is the max for most at race speed, 20 minutes if you go extra slow and baby it.

Who said 1/8 E was cheaper????? Maybe in the long run after fuel/starter box/engine rebuilds are taken into account but for the most part, it is probably comparable. E is huge money up front though.

I always thought lack of reliability and overall handling/fun is what killed MT. At least around here it has. It is a race of attrition. Very rarely does more than half of the trucks survive 3 qualifiers, let alone have more than 2 or 3 survive a 15 minute main. Not hard to see why no one races that class anymore.

Greedy- Yup, I am, it is all about me. 3 of us (2 of us are E guys) out of about 50-60 racers do all the work for the clubs track (city owned, not for profit), maintenance, organizing and running events, bringing the equipment, I marshall near every single race, groom/water the track throughout the day without help etc. I am so greedy that I was going to quit, just because I was having a hard time keeping my truck running/clean/tuned etc. My warmup laps were usually the first race laps of the qualifiers. My free time during the week to go tune was spent repairing the track.

Ok so that last paragraph was more whiney and argumentative but you can see my point, untill the class is big enough, why not have the E guys race together with the nitros. When there are enough that they can have their own points series, split it then. Again, club level only. I race with the nitros in the big events but I am only there as a spoiler, my points dont count and I couldnt care less.

No matter how much you can try to stiffle it, things will evolve. It is still a few years away but 1/8 E is probably going to be that next evolutionary step. Might as well jump on the band wagon and help support it.
Yes I have driven a few..for me running electric is pretty easy..I was an electric driver first and I am still figuring nitro out, so I'm about the same as far as speed goes. The conversions that I have driven were the novak and the tecno, to me the balance of the tecno buggy was pretty good..the novak was a bit off, but with the tecno kit you keep the center diff and you still have the brake balance plus the motor and speed controller stay cooler because your not using the brakes on the speed controller..and who's trying to stifle it..I'm just saying race in your own class..but hey..lets just put everyone in the same race..do 2 or 3 full heats and have some fun..1/10th..1/8th. nitro, electric, it doesnt matter its only a club race..you know slightly above open practice..
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:33 PM   #71
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Cheating is in what way taking it over the edge..
How is it cheaing when ur just club racing for fun
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:38 PM   #72
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I can understand your point of view but will have to continue to agree to disagree. 1/10 racing with 1/8 is a different comparison as opposed to 1/8 e vs 1/8 nitro. Last time I had my 1/10 truck on the track with a 1/8 nitro I was hit by a buggy that jumped a lane, poor little 1/10 was dust.
Maybe stifle wasnt the best choice of words (made sense in my head) - It's all got to start somewhere. I dont see it causing any harm around here, quite the opposite actually. For the hobby to survive, it has to evolve with the times (environmental issues, noise polution, fuel supply could be bigger issues in the future). I know the fragile 1/10 4wd class of yesteryear nearly killed the local rc scene for lack of reliability. Then 1/8 became big and so did racing again. I guess it all depends on how "serious" of a racer you are. If winning is that important to people, they will probably be the ones who adopt the attitude "no, if they want to go against the grain, their loss, they cant race untill there are more". I more look at it as big kids playing with toy cars, the more the merrier, help out untill they are established.
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Old 02-18-2009, 06:04 PM   #73
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its not that we WANT to race with electrics just not enough to have their own class right now.so how is this cheatting if we have to run with them?what we are cheaters cause we wont to run an 8th scale but dont like nitro.

come on now thuoght we wanted more people to race and to get into this hobby not just to turn them away cause they have electric.
Thats Hilarious!! I will go to my electric track this weekend and demand to them I race my Nitro at their all electric events, i WOULD BE LAUGHED OUT OF THAT PLACE AFTER THEY HIT ME IN THE HEAD WITH A LIPO PACK!!!

Come on, All this PC crap is now getting into my hobbies. Yes. I am a gun carrying, beer/whiskey drinking, cig smoking, white catholic, that's believes there is a winner and a looser. I am always the looser, but that is what keeps me coming back to get better. Not "Lets just have fun" There are CLUB RACERS and COMPETITION RACERS, I think most agree club races no biggy, but big races it is totally different and for good reason.

Sorry for the rant, but I am tired of being called names because I think there should be 2 separate classes. I'm not friendly, not promoting the hobby, not welcoming, not open minded, a motorhead, I'm creating division, I'm afraid of technology. PLEASE!!!!

IF ALL THE TRACKS RAN ELECTRIC BUGGY, I WOULD BUY ELECTRIC. VICE VERSA, WHY EXPECT TO RUN AN ELECTRIC AND "THE NITRO PIT", "PSYCHO NITRO BLAST", "NITRO CHALLENGE" ETC....

I understand you guys want to race, I think the class will grow and grow fast, but until then, you need to go with the flow, and not expect everyone else too.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:17 PM   #74
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Red face Please think about this.....

Track owner?? If you turn away an entry fee then you are foolish. The tech has diversified and it is different. The guy has a 1/8th scale and wants to race.

Racers? What? You scare they will beat your $400 engine? Get over it. Just make them run full nitro rules. 20 min mains requires at least one pit stop like the nitros. At the same time, 30 min mains will work out on their own.

Is there an advantage? Not really. Not in club racing. It is a racer you did not have before. It is more of an advantage to keep the racer.

In big races the rules are already in place.

These are cars that are designed for nitro and fitted with electric motors. It is a new class. If it grows then good for them. About time they got to drive something that is durable and can run on some good rough tracks. I drive Nitro but welcome all electrics and new racers if this is the avenue they take to racing.

Bottom line is I race nirto because I do not have to listen people bitch and whine about that guys batteries or motors. We all have more horsepower than traction. To me....this is what makes it fun. Wrench and drive. Get over it. Bring your flash lights....I need to be able to see through the smoke!

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Old 02-18-2009, 07:35 PM   #75
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Aren't you guys of complaining yet? Let's just race Eventually there will be enough for a class of there own but until then why discourage people from getting into the hobby
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