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Old 01-27-2009, 06:33 PM   #16
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Or we can consider the possibility that the author already knows about those buggies and wants to try a pillow ball car or the ever exotic xray
courious, why do you call the xray "exotic"? (this is an honest question, no sarcasum intended)
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:35 PM   #17
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I am not disagreeing or agreeing. I was just wondering how PBS would differ from C-hub for off power steering.
well, the xray isn't exactly a c hub design, but I can't really tell you waht it is called. And to answer the question, the geometry is differnt, and a PBS system has more bump steer, which can cause it to push when off power.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:47 PM   #18
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Break out the boxing gloves, mouth guards, and my dad can beat up your dad insults. It will start with a simple, “I prefer the 808 over the MBX6”. Followed up with a “yea but”. Then it will turn into all out war, nobody will be singing “Kumb by yaw”. And the anger really starts to seep in; people will be getting mad, kicking the dog, throwing the middle finger up at the monitor. Going out and robbing the local 7-11. You will start abusing alcohol, drugs and prostitutes. (The $2.00 kind and not the hot ones). Start cross dressing, (some of you are already there) and after weeks of soul searching, you figured out that you should have been born a girl; you sell your “808” and opt to move to Trinidad, Colorado. (Sex change capital, look it up) and get the “changes” that you always new should be. You will renounce your “NAMBLA” membership, and get ready for your new life. All of this came about because someone asked, “Which is better”. Do you really want to know?

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Doug, your scaring me man...........
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:01 PM   #19
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Doug, your scaring me man...........
yea, i get that alot....
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:06 PM   #20
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Doug, your scaring me man...........
+1 wow we wow!
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:14 PM   #21
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well, the xray isn't exactly a c hub design, but I can't really tell you waht it is called. And to answer the question, the geometry is differnt, and a PBS system has more bump steer, which can cause it to push when off power.
I would call it a Gyro-Hub design, as it seems to me that the hubs are like gyroscopes. I happen to love em, as well as everything else about the buggy. I was slightly pissed about having to buy optional plates to adjust the toe, and antisquat, but Compared to the money I save not breaking anything, its all worth it!! I am a Newbie racer, and I crash the hell out of it, and the only thing I've broken to date is ball ends
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:14 PM   #22
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they are both really good cars. my buddies 808 is good but i like the mugen a little more,parts avail.,tuning opt, the pillowball needs almost no maintance.
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:29 PM   #23
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a PBS system has more bump steer, which can cause it to push when off power.

Interesting. Is this due to the steering tie rod attaching to the PBS knuckle at a higher point or something? I just dont get why off power would cause the bump steer to become an issue. I dont think of off power making the buggy go to the extremes of suspension travel where bump steer comes up.I am planning on trying out the PBS option out in my X2 buggy. Chad Bradley said 'more steering and quicker lap times-but less consistant' Thanks for the explanation
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Old 01-27-2009, 07:45 PM   #24
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courious, why do you call the xray "exotic"? (this is an honest question, no sarcasum intended)
how about "luxury"?
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Old 01-27-2009, 08:05 PM   #25
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Interesting. Is this due to the steering tie rod attaching to the PBS knuckle at a higher point or something? I just dont get why off power would cause the bump steer to become an issue. I dont think of off power making the buggy go to the extremes of suspension travel where bump steer comes up.I am planning on trying out the PBS option out in my X2 buggy. Chad Bradley said 'more steering and quicker lap times-but less consistant' Thanks for the explanation

I wouldnt agree with the faster lap times thing, and I know for a fact that Pivot balls are more maintenance as I had them on my Hyper 7. Dirt gets in there and messes with the turn rate, and if you dont keep em clean and polished, all kinds of crappy things happen.

Chad races here every so often so I'll talk to him myself and see what he says
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:57 PM   #26
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PBS designs usually are unable to turn the wheels as far as open design front ends simply because the part that keeps the ball from pulling out needs to be restrictive enough to keep the ball from pulling out & that limits how far the knuckle can physicaly move.Pbs will also always have more bump steer simply due to the design ,upper ball is always further inboard from the lower & the pivot points are always closer together due to the large diamiter of the balls.The only time I see a lack of steering from the 6 is if you blow the line in a very slow tight turn but then your screwed no matter what you drive. I drive the 808 now & setup is key to either car.You can take either car to the extreames of twitchy or locked in.The rear of the 6 can not be made to follow the front as well the 808 can but other than that both can be made to feel the exact same.I will be finishing gallon #8 this weekend & plan on replacing some plastic parts after that. So far I replaced all bearings once & outer wheel bearings twice & all dogbone & cv pins once about 2 gallons ago.other than that nothing has broke & there is zero slop anywhere.You dont need to buy adjustment parts for the 808,I bought the rear pin set but ended up going back to stock settings with that.Links,oils,shock angles,& pistons can take the 808 from tractor to rally car.If you need a lcoked in rear end to drive consistantly buy the 808 if you like twitchy either car will be good with the 808 being cheaper in the long run.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:14 AM   #27
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Talking Either of these would be good...

Personal preference will let you decide between the maintenance of the pillow ball or the spindle front end. I can personally tell you steering is not an issue. I have made both front end types steer equally as well. The methods are different but there is not limitation to design. It seems as though some of the hop up guys are starting to figure out the pillow ball stuff.
I can tell you there is no maintenance in the 808's front end.

The 808 is a little lighter but that is not always a good thing.

The Mugen is not the same as the 5R as far as durability goes. The guys that run the 6 locally are very fast. They have figured a lot out but they do not seem to be up to the old standards where you would never see the 5R break. The plastic and carbon is not the same as the old car. Before you reply.... I do plastic products for a living.

The 808 has great plastic but it develops memory. It will stay bent but it does not break. The bearings on the rear corners need to be watched after.

All in all both are great cars. The Mugen is the best bang for the buck kit for what you get in the box for your money. Adjustable and it comes with rims and tires to boot. The 808 is the most refined car that really stands out when you build it.

Performance - Either one can be put on the podium equally as well.

Luxury? - I'm not going to go there for fear of being flamed to death. Read the box.

One odd fact to note.... for what ever reason Mugen has chosen a layout where pipe selection is limited. These guys make them work but I think they have to bend the headers to get them in nice and tight. RB 2045s, JP-1s and others like this... forget it. You need small and tight if you go with the Mugen. Very narrow design.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-28-2009, 09:34 AM   #28
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Thanks for the all the replies.

The pricing here in the Uk is quite a bit different to the US. The MBX6 is some £150 more expensive. There also happends to be a 2 race old 808 with all the hop ups, which is quite a bit cheaper than buying a new one. Cost is important, espiecially when I can get a new engine with the money I save !

The problem I'm having that there are a lot of different cars that run at my local tracks. The 808 does seem very reliable, with some of the other cars dropping out.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:14 AM   #29
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Thumbs up Sweet......

If you can get it and save money then there is something to consider. You do not need alot of motor for either of these cars and if parts are available then go for it. The 808 is very durable but there are still things to watch for.
Check the drive pins regularly. Watch the four corner bearings at the wheel hubs. Other than that... knock yourself out and get your season started.
After a year, then you have driven all of the other guys buggies, you will be better equipped to decide if you want to change or not.
If you take care of it, the 808 will not break down and should suit you well.
You can tune it however you like so don't make your judgement the first time you drive it.

There are alot of good guys on here that will be more than glad to help you either way you go.
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Old 01-28-2009, 10:45 AM   #30
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Engine wise its between the Sirio CL7B Sti and the Novarossi Plus 5k. Both seem to go well, more tempted by the novarossi, as the support is better here in the UK, with a lot of local model shops stocking bits.
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