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Old 01-25-2009, 01:27 PM   #16
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id buy one of these cf chassis in a second no doubt. w/right thickness,droop stops&skids it'd last a season
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:29 PM   #17
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I think they are a silly idea simply because carbon does not have very good abrasion resistance, it has a short life if continually flexed (like our cars do!!) and doesn't bend- it snaps. Take it from somebody who has seen plenty of it... I used to manufacture for 1:1 cars. Carbon is used as it is light and stiff, period. No other reasons. Trouble is it looks good and is a must have product so you look the part and gullible people will buy them to look cool.

(1) Even if it has skid plates, that will not stop the chassis from contacting the track elsewhere.... skidplates can hit the track but if there is a small bump or rock in between them it wil gouge the chassis. I've seen some vid's of USA tracks and I can't believe how smooth they are compared to ours, but you would still scrape a lot even there.

(2) alloy bends, and to a point you can straighten it again. Kevlar and glass laminates bend and when you take it too far they fail microscopically and become a bit more bendy but still hold together. Carbon snaps. Total failure. Carbon also does not like continual small flexes or bumps and the damage builds up.


If this had a couple of layers of kevlar or even a sacrificial glass layer on the bottom I would consider it. But for the price, and the fact it will not last anywhere as long as an alloy chassis, I'd leave them well alone.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:14 PM   #18
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Very well put Mark.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:19 PM   #19
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point made although the weight is a factor if you want other components to be heavier on your buggy. carbon fiber has torque and flex. i have golf clubs to prove that, as well as the fact that some cf is better quality than others. the part of these chassis i dont like is $120 tag, and then see what quality material it is. iv changed my cnc buggy chassis twice in 9 months and truggy once in less time so if cf be an upgrade or wasting time due to lack of quality i doubt id take the plunge 4 that price
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:09 PM   #20
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I wouldn't worry too much about weight. There are min weight you have too meet. Sure that may allow you to use weights that you could put it forward. Now it's one more thing to keep track of as in tuning then hope they don't come off. Club racing most of it is bring as you run I don't think this chassis would be worth having at that level.
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Old 01-25-2009, 04:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Australia View Post
I think they are a silly idea simply because carbon does not have very good abrasion resistance, it has a short life if continually flexed (like our cars do!!) and doesn't bend- it snaps. Take it from somebody who has seen plenty of it... I used to manufacture for 1:1 cars. Carbon is used as it is light and stiff, period. No other reasons. Trouble is it looks good and is a must have product so you look the part and gullible people will buy them to look cool.

(1) Even if it has skid plates, that will not stop the chassis from contacting the track elsewhere.... skidplates can hit the track but if there is a small bump or rock in between them it wil gouge the chassis. I've seen some vid's of USA tracks and I can't believe how smooth they are compared to ours, but you would still scrape a lot even there.

(2) alloy bends, and to a point you can straighten it again. Kevlar and glass laminates bend and when you take it too far they fail microscopically and become a bit more bendy but still hold together. Carbon snaps. Total failure. Carbon also does not like continual small flexes or bumps and the damage builds up.


If this had a couple of layers of kevlar or even a sacrificial glass layer on the bottom I would consider it. But for the price, and the fact it will not last anywhere as long as an alloy chassis, I'd leave them well alone.

I beg to differ on everysingle one of your points.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:14 PM   #22
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wow i thought this thread was a joke. wonder how long that thing would last. how thick is it?

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Old 01-25-2009, 05:22 PM   #23
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thickness & quality carbon fiber are 2 big factors here
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
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thickness & quality carbon fiber are 2 big factors here
i would think his R&D figured this stuff out a LONG time ago...chassy is 4mm its a Proven design...here's a quote from the Man himself....this was back in Oct

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Yes it is true. Mike truhe drove it sunday night and said it was awesome. Really well balanced and a blast to drive. I ran the 2min warm up, and the 12 min main on saturday night at Revelation. Started dead last and finished 2nd.


As far as the 2.0 goes, our chassis is already 1.5mm longer thatn stock version, and the towers and stuff will be change over very soon.

Thanks
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:36 PM   #25
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I think the first 1/8 to have carbon chassis was the savage
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:24 PM   #26
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I find it comical how all the naysayers are claiming that carbon is this, carbon can't do (fill in the blank) and yet Matrix Concepts still have, to my knowledge, their original 8ight prototype-- from over a year ago --still running. From what I've read they've put that thing through hell and back too.

I get the impression that one of the only things preventing a lot of team guys from using them are contractual obligations with their sponsors.
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Australia View Post
I think they are a silly idea simply because carbon does not have very good abrasion resistance, it has a short life if continually flexed (like our cars do!!) and doesn't bend- it snaps. Take it from somebody who has seen plenty of it... I used to manufacture for 1:1 cars. Carbon is used as it is light and stiff, period. No other reasons. Trouble is it looks good and is a must have product so you look the part and gullible people will buy them to look cool.

(1) Even if it has skid plates, that will not stop the chassis from contacting the track elsewhere.... skid plates can hit the track but if there is a small bump or rock in between them it will gouge the chassis. I've seen some videos of USA tracks and I can't believe how smooth they are compared to ours, but you would still scrape a lot even there.

(2) alloy bends, and to a point you can straighten it again. Kevlar and glass laminates bend and when you take it too far they fail microscopically and become a bit more bendy but still hold together. Carbon snaps. Total failure. Carbon also does not like continual small flexes or bumps and the damage builds up.


If this had a couple of layers of Kevlar or even a sacrificial glass layer on the bottom I would consider it. But for the price, and the fact it will not last anywhere as long as an alloy chassis, I'd leave them well alone.
Most of the tracks we Americans race on are not that smooth either..i think your seeing to many blue groove tracks that are well prepared..us club racers get the same types of tracks that your racing on..blown out tracks..but now as far as your experience with Carbon fiber goes..makes me think it's been awhile since you have been in the industry..I ride MT bikes and they use carbon fiber a lot..bars, seat posts, cranks and even frames..I do know that carbon can be designed to flex, it's all in how you layer the weave..and on that..we have been using carbon fiber chassis on 1/10 scale off road for years with pretty much no problems..i know that a few people can and will break them..but people destroy anvils also..says more about the person than the product..then you have the Vantage carbon fiber Revo chassis that for the most have been trouble free..then last but not least..if you dont like a product or think it's going to work..dont buy it..simple
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:05 AM   #28
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I beg to differ on everysingle one of your points.
Without being argumentative: then I'd love you to elaborate.

It is a fact that carbon laminates have much lower abrasion resistance that glass and waaaay less that Kevlar or Spectra. I could demo that to you anytime, I hate doing Kevlar work as grinding excess off the mould edge is a nightmare... with carbon I just touch it with the file and it is gone.

Fact: carbon is stiff but when it fails it really fails. For eg: in windsurfing, 100% carbon masts snap for no reason eventually.... just thru continual flex cycles... the cheaper 50% ones dont!! Obviously to those who race, 100% is important due to superiour reflex response and that extra bit of performance but they know it won't last as long.

I never said these carbon chassis' WILL break... I just said that when taken to it's limit alloy will bend a little but carbon will snap. Combined with carbon's lower life when continually cycled thru bend and straighten (compared to metals) it will fail erlier.

The only way to mitigate these factors is to make the chassis just as heavy as an alloy one.... and then you have zero flex and no advantages over alloy at all.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Australia View Post
Without being argumentative: then I'd love you to elaborate.

It is a fact that carbon laminates have much lower abrasion resistance that glass and waaaay less that Kevlar or Spectra. I could demo that to you anytime, I hate doing Kevlar work as grinding excess off the mould edge is a nightmare... with carbon I just touch it with the file and it is gone.

Fact: carbon is stiff but when it fails it really fails. For eg: in windsurfing, 100% carbon masts snap for no reason eventually.... just thru continual flex cycles... the cheaper 50% ones dont!! Obviously to those who race, 100% is important due to superiour reflex response and that extra bit of performance but they know it won't last as long.

I never said these carbon chassis' WILL break... I just said that when taken to it's limit alloy will bend a little but carbon will snap. Combined with carbon's lower life when continually cycled thru bend and straighten (compared to metals) it will fail erlier.

The only way to mitigate these factors is to make the chassis just as heavy as an alloy one.... and then you have zero flex and no advantages over alloy at all.

its all been said.....what else do you want to know....Why dont you get a clue and read up on how Robert did it....then you might "see the light" so to speak.
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:39 PM   #30
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thx integrea. after reading your quote from production il likely be checking one out soon. the only extra that gets me is the suggestion to use there engine mount. iv got khz blocks&mounts to last for years(so that mod might work on those). so if i dont go 2.0 soon il be checking different options out
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