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Old 01-18-2009, 02:28 PM   #61
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So make it really easy IF you are only concerned about running on the track.

Here is what I would do if I ran a magazine....

Find a big area such as Florida or California and use sportsman results from rc pro or roar and have an invitational. Interview the top 50 and invite them. Have an actual race.

If you have 10 cars, you have 10 heats so each person has a chance to drive each car. Each manufacturer sets up their own car as they want it run, no optional parts. To make it fair, all cars get the same servos, motors and electronics....So a company like Airtronics would love to give up 10 radios and 10 servos to be involved with the challenge and get free advertising.

The people get ranked each heat and get NO practice time prior to driving it.

You set it up so each heat, the person gets $50 for a win, $25 for second, $10 for third so that there would not be sandbagging. Then maybe take it a step further and have a final that is worth $1000 to win, $500 for second, $250 for third and the top point guy picks the car he likes first to run in the main, the second guy gets second choice.....last place guy gets the last car...but for a possible $1000, he might still have a chance to win.

This would make it so people would have to actually race...wanna win? don't break and go fast....

Then report the findings..... Car x broke how many heats.... Car y top qualified with 3 different drivers..... Car z wasn't the fastest, but everyone kept it in third place.......

If the money is high enough, that will take bias out of it.

AND, how cool would it be to have your pic in the mag as an official test driver????
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:13 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by hakmazter View Post
So make it really easy IF you are only concerned about running on the track.

Here is what I would do if I ran a magazine....

Find a big area such as Florida or California and use sportsman results from rc pro or roar and have an invitational. Interview the top 50 and invite them. Have an actual race.

If you have 10 cars, you have 10 heats so each person has a chance to drive each car. Each manufacturer sets up their own car as they want it run, no optional parts. To make it fair, all cars get the same servos, motors and electronics....So a company like Airtronics would love to give up 10 radios and 10 servos to be involved with the challenge and get free advertising.

The people get ranked each heat and get NO practice time prior to driving it.

You set it up so each heat, the person gets $50 for a win, $25 for second, $10 for third so that there would not be sandbagging. Then maybe take it a step further and have a final that is worth $1000 to win, $500 for second, $250 for third and the top point guy picks the car he likes first to run in the main, the second guy gets second choice.....last place guy gets the last car...but for a possible $1000, he might still have a chance to win.

This would make it so people would have to actually race...wanna win? don't break and go fast....

Then report the findings..... Car x broke how many heats.... Car y top qualified with 3 different drivers..... Car z wasn't the fastest, but everyone kept it in third place.......

If the money is high enough, that will take bias out of it.

AND, how cool would it be to have your pic in the mag as an official test driver????
the problem with that is everyone drives different so the shoot would provide no real useful information other than durability information.
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:46 AM   #63
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The company I work for (music production products) spends $100K/yr on advertising in various "trade magazines" (the term used for publications aimed at people in a particular trade). EQ, Keyboard, Electronic Musician are some of these magazines.

We never get a negative review. We make great products (of course I think so, lol), but we know what really goes on behind the scenes. There's a simple formula... and I use that term lightly, because it might be more accurate to call it a freaking template.

They basically say it's a new product aimed at [insert music production type here], that it does this and that.

Then they talk about any potential problems, but they only do this in an attempt to cover the fact that the "review" is really bonus advertising. There could be more serious "problems", or they may think it's a gimmick, but they won't bring that up at all. They sweet-talk the lightweight/forgivable problem they've chosen to dedicate all of two sentences to.

Then they write a dozen paragraphs about how great it is and how they are recommending it to all their buddies in the industry. Then we're given a copy of the review before it goes to press (so-called "fact check") and we can respond to it and request changes. LOL.

Some people call this the sandwich theory. Whatever you call it, we all use this basic psychology in everyday life. Your boss, if he has any knowledge of supervisory skill, uses it in your yearly reviews.

The only publication that I've ever read (aside from Consumer Reports) that contained any real scrutiny about products was a video game magazine I used to read. They'd outright say that a product was a horribly-made gimmick. I don't remember the name of that magazine, but people had more respect for that one over all the others.

The price we pay for a magazine subscription covers the cost of printing and/or shipping the magazine. The actual operational cost of the publishers' businesses is all paid for by the advertisers and they serve the advertisers first. The only need to serve the readers is in the sense that advertising premiums are based on units sold/subscriptions. The only way they can charge $100K/year for a back cover is to show how many readers they have.

I'm skeptical of every review I read.
Sorry man, that's not how it goes here. It's always easier to just say things suck. What do people think if we opened up a magazine and every products "SUCKED" why would people buy it?
I used to read PC Accelerator too, it was funny to read how every game sucked...but video games do suck. They release them regardless of what's wrong with them and they cost in reality so little to make it's easy to make something bad and release it.

In RC everybody always talks of this "SUCKS" but in the end when asked what "SUCKS" and a reason why, they can't do it. I'm sorry to think that people can't believe anything or skeptical

We try to put things that dont' work or suck in, when a company sends us stuff with problems we ask them if it's common or offer to not review it until it's fix.

In the end the public decides what is "the best" even if it's not. Ever read RCCA's reader choice? I laugh at some of the things in there not because they suck, but because they aren't the "best" it's what perceived as popular.

We can discuss the morals of companies in any industry and where you work too. It's pretty easy. I've talked about what being an advertiser in our magazine gets you in several threads. It's not a free pass to suck or a template review. we don't send "editorial" to any advertiser before print. We will send "spec information" like price/part number chassis thickness...but none reads what we have to say before hand.


So again, I'll challenge somebody to constructively write about something they used that out and out was terrible.
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:01 PM   #64
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Blah... Blah... Blah... if you dont like the magazine dont buy it!!!
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:06 PM   #65
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hey guys remember, the world of RC magazines....

....even the duratrax warhead gets 9/10

R
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:13 PM   #66
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hey guys remember, the world of RC magazines....

....even the duratrax warhead gets 9/10

R
Actually I just looked the review up and we gave it a "6" for durability...so that technically is an "F" and we mentioned the technical issues we had with the car.
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Old 01-19-2009, 09:04 PM   #67
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DereckB is XRC going to have a 1/8th shoot out any time soon ?
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:28 PM   #68
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If you want the real scoop on a car read reviews at oOple.com. He is really honest, plus the photos and writing are great. Of course he doesn't have 100's of reviews, just a dozen or so, but they are great reading!
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:32 AM   #69
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Sorry man, that's not how it goes here. It's always easier to just say things suck. What do people think if we opened up a magazine and every products "SUCKED" why would people buy it?
I used to read PC Accelerator too, it was funny to read how every game sucked...but video games do suck. They release them regardless of what's wrong with them and they cost in reality so little to make it's easy to make something bad and release it.

In RC everybody always talks of this "SUCKS" but in the end when asked what "SUCKS" and a reason why, they can't do it. I'm sorry to think that people can't believe anything or skeptical

We try to put things that dont' work or suck in, when a company sends us stuff with problems we ask them if it's common or offer to not review it until it's fix.

In the end the public decides what is "the best" even if it's not. Ever read RCCA's reader choice? I laugh at some of the things in there not because they suck, but because they aren't the "best" it's what perceived as popular.

We can discuss the morals of companies in any industry and where you work too. It's pretty easy. I've talked about what being an advertiser in our magazine gets you in several threads. It's not a free pass to suck or a template review. we don't send "editorial" to any advertiser before print. We will send "spec information" like price/part number chassis thickness...but none reads what we have to say before hand.


So again, I'll challenge somebody to constructively write about something they used that out and out was terrible.
I'm not criticizing your magazine (I don't even know what it is). I didn't intend to put you or anyone else on the defensive.

As far as challenging someone to write constructively... there's something to consider: Many of us will write based on emotion.

If a person spends $500 on a kit and discovers there's a flaw that puts its performance on par/below that of a $300 kit he thought he was upgrading from, he's going to experience an unpleasant emotion. Add to the price, the time he put into acquiring and assembling the kit, and any specific hop-ups for it, and he might be downright P.O.'d about it. He'll voice that without feeling the need to justify every aspect and be constructive in his personal review.

That example isn't even about a terrible product. I imagine that if the $500 kit was actually terrible instead of disappointing, he'd go on a virtual rampage.
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:36 AM   #70
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I'm not criticizing your magazine (I don't even know what it is). I didn't intend to put you or anyone else on the defensive.

As far as challenging someone to write constructively... there's something to consider: Many of us will write based on emotion.

If a person spends $500 on a kit and discovers there's a flaw that puts its performance on par/below that of a $300 kit he thought he was upgrading from, he's going to experience an unpleasant emotion. Add to the price, the time he put into acquiring and assembling the kit, and any specific hop-ups for it, and he might be downright P.O.'d about it. He'll voice that without feeling the need to justify every aspect and be constructive in his personal review.

That example isn't even about a terrible product. I imagine that if the $500 kit was actually terrible instead of disappointing, he'd go on a virtual rampage.
Thats exactly why that person would make a bad writer than, the inability to seperate emotion from his judgment.
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:46 AM   #71
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Thats exactly why that person would make a bad writer than, the inability to seperate emotion from his judgment.
True, but the fictional person isn't a writer. He's a consumer who spent his earned money and he's got an opinion to voice.

Derek's challenge is about a consumer, not magazine reviewer, writing a constructive review about a terrible product. I'm suggesting that there's something he may not be considering... the emotional aspect that comes from a person spending his own money on a failure of a product.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:12 PM   #72
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True, but the fictional person isn't a writer. He's a consumer who spent his earned money and he's got an opinion to voice.

Derek's challenge is about a consumer, not magazine reviewer, writing a constructive review about a terrible product. I'm suggesting that there's something he may not be considering... the emotional aspect that comes from a person spending his own money on a failure of a product.

and most people defend what they bought as the best ever...emotion included. I'm not sure what $500 car is worse than a $300 car, but those are examples of "what I want to feel" and not reality.

I can say that a FT TC5 is the best priced high end sedan and is capable of winning on every level. But we still chose the XRAY as our choice in X-Best.

The consumer opinion and experience is important but not many people have access to all products and have no emotional attachment to them. I'm much less excited and harder to impress than the guy who just about his new car for the year. So that takes some of that emotion out and just looks at the facts...which the internet always likes to skip.

Also oople is great, met the guy. But he even states in the review of the TRF his lack of nitro experience. That's nice from a beginner level, but is that better information? Not sure.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:27 PM   #73
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and most people defend what they bought as the best ever...emotion included. I'm not sure what $500 car is worse than a $300 car, but those are examples of "what I want to feel" and not reality.

I can say that a FT TC5 is the best priced high end sedan and is capable of winning on every level. But we still chose the XRAY as our choice in X-Best.

The consumer opinion and experience is important but not many people have access to all products and have no emotional attachment to them. I'm much less excited and harder to impress than the guy who just about his new car for the year. So that takes some of that emotion out and just looks at the facts...which the internet always likes to skip.

Also oople is great, met the guy. But he even states in the review of the TRF his lack of nitro experience. That's nice from a beginner level, but is that better information? Not sure.
Oople also states hes a huge Tamiya fan, which could result into a bias from the beginning. An example is the bulkheads where they are unfortunately more than 2 pieces, but his excuse is, "oh, that's just Tamiya for you." I think it is very hard for you guys to stay as impartial as you do while trying to keep everything on a positive note. No company wants to give you something to test only to see you completely bash it in the utmost negative way. I think every car has positives and negatives to it, and magazines IMO for the most part, tend to find those points and point em out fairly.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:04 AM   #74
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Has anyone seen a Magazine shoot out of the latest 8th scale buggy's, IE. Kyosho, Mugen, Xray,Losi, AE, Jammin ?

If so which Magazine and when.

What was the conclusion ?

I was just curious.
I started this thread a year ago to find out if there had been a good shoot out for 1/8 buggy's, and I got lots of post and debates, but no answer on a shoot out, has there been one in the past year ?
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:25 AM   #75
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