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Old 12-06-2008, 08:04 PM   #1
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Default Need clutch advice

I'm sticking with my old car next year and getting a new engine and clutch setup. The car is still competitive and have spare parts so I'm going to try and run it one more year becuase I'm just getting to know it well for racing
Kyosho Mp-6. Looking at RB S5 L2G as my choice for engine unless RB has something come out in the spring different in that price.
I've been following all the clutch threads lately and just realized they are all for aluminum shoes. I want to stick with carbon shoes but don't see recommendations on those any more.

What are the top 2 or 3 brands of carbon shoes to look at? Should Kyosho shoes be on my list??

Also I'm at a bit of an indecision on the rest of it. I priced the Kyosho stuff today and I'd be dumping about $65 for CB, 3 shoe flywheel, nut, collet,etc. and I'd still need shoes! Just the CB is $29 by itself but I have used it before. In fact it's the only one I've used so I don't know what I'm missing out on!

Kyosho is still considered "standard" on shoes, etc. Not like AE,Losi right?

Once I get a shoe recommendation I'm gonna be torn between spending the extra $$ on Kyosho setup vs. looking into other brands of everything. I definately only want to take one shot at getting everything to fit together and work together the first try. I know I have to experiment with springs and whatever for my engine and track, but I at least want the thing to all go together and don't know what I'm getting into with other brand or mixed brands. Kyosho stuff is overpriced on some items IMO. I know they do make quality stuff but sometimes they are 2-3 times higher.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:52 AM   #2
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Why may I ask,would you not want to upgrade to Aluminum Shoes?They grab much better and last longer.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:30 AM   #3
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the thing with all shoes is the variables.sometimes the springs are not all the same, shoe material etc. i like carbon shoes and use them alot, even try the ofna rulon red shoes they are supposed to give more grip then black carbon but wear a little more. i ran a carbon setup on a RB modded go tech 5 port and it was killer but i could not ever duplicate it, because that set of springs was PERFECT. on a stout engine i like carbon and xray 1.0 springs.
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:06 AM   #4
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i have been running the m2c 4 shoe clutch the last part of the season and will likely not change ...it offers durability and adjustability via different wieghts and compounds of springs and shoes ....and is just the best clutch ive run ....also mitchel who owns m2c is just great to deal with on the customer service side ....check this link out .....also i wouldnt see upgrading to carbon shoes ....stick with aluminum ......

http://www.m2cracing.com/product.sc;...&productId=173

you will also have everything you need to get going including .9,.95,1.0,1.05 springs flywheel,collet,shims,and 1 set of shoes ...
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:24 AM   #5
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the fironi clutches work very well and they use carbon shoes.. they last forever!
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Old 12-07-2008, 06:27 AM   #6
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Back when I first started 8th scale, I ran Mugen carbon shoes and 1.0 springs. I really liked this setup but I do not run it any longer. Now I mainly run the Dynamite long lasting shoes and 1.0 springs. These shows last forever!
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:00 AM   #7
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the fironi clutches work very well and they use carbon shoes.. they last forever!
that they do i ran them for a whole season ...the shoes last forever the springs not so much ...they seem like they do but you start having starnge bottom end issues ....

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Back when I first started 8th scale, I ran Mugen carbon shoes and 1.0 springs. I really liked this setup but I do not run it any longer. Now I mainly run the Dynamite long lasting shoes and 1.0 springs. These shows last forever!

ran those but got sick of the springs breaking ....the m2c rules
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:15 AM   #8
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I used to have a kypsho 7.5 and a RB ws7 II and ran 1.0 springs and mugen white shoes killer!
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Driver View Post
Why may I ask,would you not want to upgrade to Aluminum Shoes?They grab much better and last longer.
Because I will only be starting my 2nd season of racing next year. I had a decent starting setup for my car but am working on refining it because it can be a lot better. Also the track I go to is completely changing for next year. It will be tight with short run ups and very technical. Plus I'm upgrading my engine. I did not want the extra "hassle" of learning to maintain and keep an eye on aluminum shoes yet. I will be plenty busy learning the track, my new engine, and what I like/don't like about my new setup. I want something lower maintenance and am being honest with what I'm willing to do next year.

I would think that a flywheel from anyone would be fine as long as it is big enough to hit the starter box. Is it like a street car in that lighter gives better throttle response at the expense of smooth idle?

What part should I pick out first? From what I can gather from reading other posts is that AE and Losi are different. Everyone else is pretty much standard but OFNA makes everything a little bit bigger diameter.

Should MIP be a good brand to look at for carbon shoes??

This is definately something that can be overthought when you just are starting out isn't it?
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:38 AM   #10
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that they do i ran them for a whole season ...the shoes last forever the springs not so much ...they seem like they do but you start having starnge bottom end issues ....




ran those but got sick of the springs breaking ....the m2c rules
I never broke a mugen spring, xray springs are another story..
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:52 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by bjr48 View Post
Because I will only be starting my 2nd season of racing next year. I had a decent starting setup for my car but am working on refining it because it can be a lot better. Also the track I go to is completely changing for next year. It will be tight with short run ups and very technical. Plus I'm upgrading my engine. I did not want the extra "hassle" of learning to maintain and keep an eye on aluminum shoes yet. I will be plenty busy learning the track, my new engine, and what I like/don't like about my new setup. I want something lower maintenance and am being honest with what I'm willing to do next year.

I would think that a flywheel from anyone would be fine as long as it is big enough to hit the starter box. Is it like a street car in that lighter gives better throttle response at the expense of smooth idle?

What part should I pick out first? From what I can gather from reading other posts is that AE and Losi are different. Everyone else is pretty much standard but OFNA makes everything a little bit bigger diameter.

Should MIP be a good brand to look at for carbon shoes??

This is definately something that can be overthought when you just are starting out isn't it?
last question first ....YES ......seriously though if your track has shorter run ups wouldnt you want more punch ? if so go with aluminum ....the only reason standard 3 shoe clutches require ma ....is because of there design ...with the large part of the spring resting mostly in the hump of the shoe great heat is generated there ...thus springs break ...also think abouot this ....with the spring all the way down the shoe it causes the clutch bell to develop a groove in it ....with the losi style and the m2c style this doesnt happen ....there is no material to dig into the clutch bell .....this is why these clutches are widely used ...you get the punch but not as much ma ....

on clutch components all are not created equal
losi clutch is 4 shoes with multiple compounds and springs
ae clutch is 3 shoes but are a different shape than all others
m2c clutch 4 shoes aluminum multiple compounds and spring wieghts

there are 2 types of 3 shoe clutch standard set ups
kyosho type
mugen type
when running the different types you cannot mix and match components ...or well you could but it wont work and you will be fighting it ....
for a kyosho set up you need ....kyosho style flywheel , shoes, clutchbell ,and nut
for a mugen style you need the same components just in mugen style ....
if any of these components are not matched to the style you will have many problems including shimming,clutch shoes sit to far up or to far back .....
just telling you the wowes i have had in the last 3 years ....especially the 1st ...so that you might be bettter educated than i was ....the fioroni turbo slide is good ...and i thought i would never run anything else ...but you sacrifice performance ...and get a clutch you never have to touch ...me personally i will take the performance of my m2c with minimal ma ......just my .02
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:53 AM   #12
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Kyosho or Mugen, Carbons are just fine for buggy And if you go with kyosho just keep tryingdifferent shoes from them till you find the ones you like. Or go with Werks they are alittle tricky to set up at 1st but will last the longest.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zixxer View Post
i have been running the m2c 4 shoe clutch the last part of the season and will likely not change ...it offers durability and adjustability via different wieghts and compounds of springs and shoes ....and is just the best clutch ive run ....also mitchel who owns m2c is just great to deal with on the customer service side ....check this link out .....also i wouldnt see upgrading to carbon shoes ....stick with aluminum ......

http://www.m2cracing.com/product.sc;...&productId=173

you will also have everything you need to get going including .9,.95,1.0,1.05 springs flywheel,collet,shims,and 1 set of shoes ...



X2



fioroni
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:57 PM   #14
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you can race a whole lot on one set of fironi shoes.. a
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:31 PM   #15
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How often are you needing to clean up the edges of the shoes on these M2C 4 shoes? We have 8 hour practice sessions on non race Saturdays and I, like everyone else, take full advantage of the whole day and are there for about 9+ hours. Not that you drive the whole time but I've come close to using a whole gallon in one day many times. On a race Saturday I only get to practice a little in the monring and then we have two 5 min qulifiers and a 10 min main. Not very stressfull. I'm torturing my ride actually during practice days. I'm not going to put up with doing clutch maintenance on a good practice day when you are able to just enjoy driving all day instead of wrenching. Those days DO happen

Yes I think I do want the added punch of aluminum but they seem to have a lot of tradeoffs. Stick with me a little longer and I'm considering it. I have a few more questions. I started this becuase I took the advice from the last threads on shoes and went back to both the Answer RC and M2C web sites and realized they were both aluminum. I never got to the M2C springs page. They ARE different. They are shorter. Do they still wrap around the shoes the same and they are shorter or are they a totally new design as far as where they mount? Can't find a pic of the whole system put together.

So I get the whole 4 shoe flywheel, shoe, spring setup from M2C and add a Kyosho CB? Just how different is their stuff? I didn't really pick up on that from the simple web page. I just thought everyone like them because they were simply good and lots of options

I AM paying attention to the good carbon shoe responses too, thanks!

...I forgot to check Amain for Kyosho stuff. They still carry 777 stuff. They are sometimes cheaper than Kyo direct. When some people were complaining that the Fironi was easily $70 and saying this was a pricey setup I'm thinking I must be doing something wrong if I'm going to dump more than that into a traditional style clutch setup. I was getting a list of hardware Friday off the 777 exploded view because at least the first 777's were still using the same clutch bell that came on the MP-6! MP6 used the 2 shoe clutch with the single wrap around spring. 777's used Kyo alum. shoes stock. I need to see what the MP9 guys are using to compare what the K cars are doing now. I have an exploded veiw at work...
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