R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-11-2008, 10:42 PM   #31
Tech Initiate
 
jeff alessi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hilliard, fl and hesperia, ca
Posts: 31
Default

from reading all the different ways people cut holes inside the rim or the tires and why they do it there way it makes me think this, if your cut holes in the inside on the rim and took a peace of fabrick material and glued it over the holes so the tire could breath it would eliminate dirt from going in and make the tires off balance and would soak up some water. i dont think cutting outside on the tire is smart unless u plan on using your tires 1 time so im gonna try this with my new tires and see how they turn out cause i usually run a set of proline hard compound xtr i think 1 and a half gallons without them being totally blownout. anyone think this is a bad idea?

jeff alessi
__________________
tamiya 801xt
tamiya 801x (soon i hope)
orion crf 21 us spec!!!!
airtronics m11
eb mods fuel
honda 450 mx n 250f sx
alpinestars
team motoconcepts
jeff alessi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 05:01 AM   #32
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Default

I've been racing for a lot of years and I've come down firmly on the side of putting holes in the tires, NOT the wheels. It doesn't matter how you do it, but if you put holes in the wheels, you're asking for trouble. Either water or dirt is going to get inside the tire if you put holes in the wheels, and that's going to create a balance problem. There's no way for anything that gets into the tire to get out - it's impossible. I've never had a set of tires accumulate dirt on the inside by venting the tire - in fact they stay very clean. If you have holes in the tires and there's an imbalance, it's probably because you're running Proline POS inserts. They're already way out of balance when they come out of the package and they only get worse the longer you run them. Panther inserts aren't much better, although they're a little more balanced. But the second they get wet from washing the tires, they're done too. I've converted to AKA tires and inserts and now I have zero issues with any of the aforementioned. BTW, no matter what you use, don't punch holes through the inserts.
rcg33k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 07:51 AM   #33
Tech Lord
 
Integra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,482
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Integra
Default

Panther Foams are Nothing like Prolines......for one...panthers are a standard open cell foam....prolines is molded.....how you can compare to each other baffles me....i will agree with every other point you made tho.
__________________
TNS Driver - Radio Post - Blue Groove Apparel - Team Panther - Hitec - Losi - W.E.D. Paint - Clockwork Fuel - Competition Heat - SUMO Racing - Tekin - Team Terribles - M2C Racing - Matrix Concepts - Kal Gard - BuKu Power - DE Racing -
Integra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 01:30 PM   #34
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,807
Trader Rating: 47 (100%+)
Default

Panther does make a molded foam insert, they are
green in color. They don't come in the 38 size, but
I've seen a few people use them by cutting them
down to size. I don't know how balanced they ended
up, but it has been done. I think they also make a
green molded buggy foam.
rageworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 01:54 PM   #35
Tech Lord
 
Integra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,482
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Integra
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rageworks View Post
Panther does make a molded foam insert, they are
green in color. They don't come in the 38 size, but
I've seen a few people use them by cutting them
down to size. I don't know how balanced they ended
up, but it has been done. I think they also make a
green molded buggy foam.


i know they made a Mt version and 40 series version of the greens.....i still have some......but they are no longer listed on their web site....and from a racing point i would never want a Insert that stiff...nor would i want to have to spend all that time modding the insert.
__________________
TNS Driver - Radio Post - Blue Groove Apparel - Team Panther - Hitec - Losi - W.E.D. Paint - Clockwork Fuel - Competition Heat - SUMO Racing - Tekin - Team Terribles - M2C Racing - Matrix Concepts - Kal Gard - BuKu Power - DE Racing -
Integra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 02:55 PM   #36
Tech Adept
 
bajaracer1501's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 227
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

At about the same time I originally created this thread, I pm'd Ryan Lutz on his suggestions regarding AKA tire choice for Revelation Raceway in Socal and about the hole in tire vs. wheel thing. He was really helpful in responding and hole in TIRE is what he suggested for the same reasons already mentioned.
bajaracer1501 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 06:00 PM   #37
Tech Lord
 
Jaz240's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Dwindle city
Posts: 12,492
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Default

For the record, whether its right or wrong, i put holes in my tires, and my rims. Two in rims at 180 degrees, and two in tires at 180 degrees, and then I mount them so all the holes are evenly spaced. Never had a problem, don't anticipate I ever will.
__________________
nothing to see here................................
Jaz240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2008, 10:32 PM   #38
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oceanside CA
Posts: 1,075
Default

I not only only put hols in my tires but now have started gluing up the holes that come in the rim if they have them from the factory

Jeff I know your new to buggy/truggy tires but heres a freebie from my own wallet you will have an easier life if you dont have holes in your rims.washing tires ,wich you will do if you run at a track they water will double the water inside the assembly.Water on the foams does the same thing as dumping sand & twigs in your dirtbike tire before mounting, only twice as fast. I havent had trouble with the AKA foams getting water damage yet but I aint takin any chances. I for sure dont know it all but have been around this a very long time & have made almost every mistake possable & some twice just to make sure.Tires wont be damaged by putting a hole in the tread they dont rip & the hole never gets bigger even if you run your tires bald.You can ask at the track how old a tire is & see if the hole in the tread has caused problems that would be the easiest way to put your fears to rest.Any time you wash tires put them on the car & sling them dry with the car on the starter box & you will greatly extend the foams life,if you dont the foams hold the water for a week or two & rot no matter how you store them. OK one more freebie for a fellow dirt bike brother.DITCH the proline crap & buy AKA that alone will increace your traction & double or tripple your usable tire life no matter how you vent your tires.

Freebies are in thanks for making that coloring book my daughter prizes ,& when are you gonna come out to ARC? Short trip from your cali home.
http://www.arcraceway.com/
butch man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 07:00 AM   #39
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 42
Default

What about no holes at all? A few at my local track run them sealed and boast about long tread life. How does this change the feel of the tire?
CJKinney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 07:39 AM   #40
Tech Lord
 
Integra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,482
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Integra
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJKinney View Post
What about no holes at all? A few at my local track run them sealed and boast about long tread life. How does this change the feel of the tire?


problem with that is if they do pop a bead and start filling with Air .....they would be mini ballons....ie causing erratic handling and a possible light bouncy felling to the car....but then again...ive never tried it...and doubt i ever will.
__________________
TNS Driver - Radio Post - Blue Groove Apparel - Team Panther - Hitec - Losi - W.E.D. Paint - Clockwork Fuel - Competition Heat - SUMO Racing - Tekin - Team Terribles - M2C Racing - Matrix Concepts - Kal Gard - BuKu Power - DE Racing -
Integra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 11:45 AM   #41
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oceanside CA
Posts: 1,075
Default

I have a friend at the track that didnt know about venting & just moved from truggy(that have rim holes) to buggy (that dont have rim holes).I assumed he did & when he asked why his car handled like crap I noticed his tires had filled up with air like a balloon & stayed that way. There must have been a poor glue joint somewhere & when the tires ballooned up it opened the hole & sucked in air & when he got off the throttle it closed the hole trapping the air. We tried not to laugh at him too much but everybody in the pits smiles at him to this day,six month later.
butch man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 07:54 PM   #42
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Integra View Post
Panther Foams are Nothing like Prolines......for one...panthers are a standard open cell foam....prolines is molded.....how you can compare to each other baffles me....i will agree with every other point you made tho.
Like I said, the Panther foams ARE better than Proline's, but they're still both open cell foam that degrade very quickly. It's rare that I wear out a set of tires before the Panther or Proline foam is absolutely dead - it gets even worse when you wash the tires. Both of the aforementioned use foam that degrades even more quickly if they get wet. the AKA inserts are made of a ground closed cell foam rubber and they're not affected by water at all. Its a pain in the ass to buy tires and have to throw the foam away, but that's what I have to do after trying the AKA foams - there's nothing else that runs as well IMO. As soon as I wear out my current stock of tires, I'm switching to AKA tires as well and not going back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJKinney View Post
What about no holes at all? A few at my local track run them sealed and boast about long tread life. How does this change the feel of the tire?
LOL! It's funny that you mention that... I mounted up a set of tires to race last weekend and forgot to vent the tires. It's rare that you get a glue job that's absolutely air tight, but one of the tires was glued that well. It blew up like a baloon and when I got back to the pits I was like, WTF?! My right rear tire was HUGE. Then I realized that when I mounted my tires at 2 am, I didn't punch holes in them. So, bad idea.
rcg33k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 09:24 PM   #43
Tech Lord
 
Integra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,482
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to Integra
Default

white Panther Standard foam = Open cell foam
Grey Proline Molded foam = Closed cell foam

i know aka foams are nice...but they are still stiff as all get out.....until they release a Soft foam...ill keep my Standard foams for the blown out tracks that will benefit from a little side wall mush.
__________________
TNS Driver - Radio Post - Blue Groove Apparel - Team Panther - Hitec - Losi - W.E.D. Paint - Clockwork Fuel - Competition Heat - SUMO Racing - Tekin - Team Terribles - M2C Racing - Matrix Concepts - Kal Gard - BuKu Power - DE Racing -
Integra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 09:49 PM   #44
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 850
Trader Rating: 42 (100%+)
Default

Put holes in them. If someone had a good run on a set of tires with no holes and managed to get them airtight that is a rare thing. Plus, will they stay that way through the race event??? I glued a set in my 75 degree trailer and got them air tight without any holes. Then when I took them to the track which was barely 30 degrees they came off flat. It was like there was no foam in them, so I cut holes in the tires. It was like sticking a air hose on a flat tire. (Hot air expands and cold air contracts) Foam is supposed to be the primary thing in RC tires. Air is kinda of the neccesary evil - it lets the foam work. I used to drill the wheels and now cut holes in the tires. My foams seem to stay better longer. You might have to try them both ways, but I think this is something you can figure out over time.
Hope this helps
__________________
On-point/ EA horsey power/XFactory / Hudy / Tekin / Trinity / KO Propo / Reino's Ragu
mracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2008, 01:26 AM   #45
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Integra View Post
white Panther Standard foam = Open cell foam
Grey Proline Molded foam = Closed cell foam

i know aka foams are nice...but they are still stiff as all get out.....until they release a Soft foam...ill keep my Standard foams for the blown out tracks that will benefit from a little side wall mush.
Integra, I don't mean to start a debate about this, mostly because it's not terribly relevant, but the Proline foam IS open cell. I worked in the foam business for few years and you can most certainly mold open cell foam. The AKA inserts are the ONLY closed cell foam insert that have ever been available in the RC market. A simple way to tell is to squeeze the tire when its mounted. If you hear air "whooshing" out of the vent holes, it's open cell foam.

I thought the same thing as you regarding the stiffness of the AKA foam, but I've found them to be excellent in all track conditions, except for possibly when the track is muddy. They're good in the bumps - trust me. I'm on my 10th set of tires per set of inserts and they're still dialed. It's well worth the investment.
rcg33k is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:51 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net