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Old 10-05-2008, 09:39 PM   #1
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Default Losi Clutch NIGHTMARE!!!

Hello guys,

I am new to R/C Nitro Arena Truck racing. I and my family (3) bought Losi RTR 8ight-T kits about 3 weeks ago and decided we were going to go racing. We had raced Nitro Boats for a few years back in the mid 90s so we thought we would give cars a shot. Here is our, mainly mine, biggest issue.

THE CLUTCH!!! This thing eats bearings, im talkin two heat races (10 min. total) and its DONE! I went to an Invite over the weekend, changed them 3-4 times?????? and on top of that it kills the shoes! I talked to a few guys out there, but they were so busy it was hard to get alot of info and how toos. By the end of the day i did learn that you could convert them. I have a Kyosho set up on it now, but the mesh is a little short, i was told that the quick change motor mount would allow me to move the motor foward some to fix it. I am just tired of not finishing races. I raced a total of Five times this weekend and did not finish but one qualifier.

I am not mechanically challenged either. I understand bearing clearance, spacing, mesh alignment, heat factors, things like this.

Does the Losi 4 shoe system really suck? I seen losi's out there today checkin them out, i know one is running the 4 shoe system with no issue. I would say its something on my truck, but the other two have had some similar issues. Any and all info whould be greatly appreciated here.

I am OK with changing clutch bearings every weekend, new for the race day, but 4 a day?? not so cool.

BTW, just FYI, if it matters, the trucks are running the Dynamite 427s.

Thanx in advance!
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:55 PM   #2
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Use Dynamite max life or king heads 7075 shoes with all gold or gold and silver springs, scotch brite the clutch bell, blow some of the grease from the inner bearing, and clean the clutch bell with motor spray or brake cleaner. I've had good luck with the protec bearings....a tube of 10 for 10 bucks. This is what I ran on the Eight clutch with good results, I would generally just change the bearings before an important main. I don't recall ever not finishing a race due to a clutch bearing. Those shoes would generally last 1.5 to 2 gallons if I kept my clutch bell clean.
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Old 10-05-2008, 10:06 PM   #3
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yea dude your doing something wrong, i run the king headz aluminum shoes with gold springs and carbons with green springs, some avid clucthbell bearings properly shimmed and meshed and it should last forever.
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Old 10-05-2008, 10:10 PM   #4
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I've had days where clutch bearings go out often and then days they last forever so i would say it could be the quality of the bearing's
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoclay View Post
Hello guys,


THE CLUTCH!!! This thing eats bearings, im talkin two heat races (10 min. total) and its DONE! I went to an Invite over the weekend, changed them 3-4 times?????? and on top of that it kills the shoes! I talked to a few guys out there, but they were so busy it was hard to get alot of info and how toos. By the end of the day i did learn that you could convert them. I have a Kyosho set up on it now, but the mesh is a little short, i was told that the quick change motor mount would allow me to move the motor foward some to fix it. I am just tired of not finishing races. I raced a total of Five times this weekend and did not finish but one qualifier.
Do you run enough backlash on the clutch bell and the spur gear. If so, there must be a dodgey batch of bearings or somethin like that.

I would convert to the M2C Racing ultra light clutch shoe 4-piece system for the losi. They are a set of shoes
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:04 AM   #6
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Motoclay,

Swith to Associated style with your Eight and use Impulse-r/c shoes. Have several running Losi with this setup and it took care of all of the problems they were having.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:11 AM   #7
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Had the same issue here for a minute. I was eating up bearings like the cookie monster at a chips ahoy factory. In the end the problem as it is 90% of the time was user error.

1. Get your CB on right. shim bell and inner bearing 1st. get just enough clearence so you don't touch fly wheel and CB spins very freely.

1a. You CB bearings dont have to be expensive. However you want to clean out some of the inner grease when putting them on. Do this with some brake fluid cleaner just shoot it on the bearing let dry. Reasoon why is the grease from the bearing will come out and coat your CB making it slip and causing other problems. I get a pack of 10 bearings from my lhs for 9.99. Now I only have to replace bearings with regular maintenance. You would still be doing the same even if you had the expensive bearings. Have not blown a bearing in quite sometime now.

2. shim CB screw correctly when you tighten CB screw all the way down there should only be a little play (not more than a shims worth) in the CB. Add or takeaway shims until you achieve this.

3. Use permatex blue Gel locktite you can get it at your auto parts store. You get twice as much for half the price. And a whole lot less mess. You only need it in the threads. Wipe off any excess. Loctite on a bearing is a killer.

4. Get Meshed up correctly. place engine back on and place a piece of paper between CB and spur and tighten slightly remove paper (roll backwards). Roll around on floor and you should not hear any funny noises. It should roll really freely.

5. Now get your engine squared. meaning in a perfect line with your mesh. Engine should not be cocked in any way. Easy way to tell if your engine is squared turn it over and measure the distance of the engine mount screws (outer edge) to the edge of the of the screw slot retaining wall. It should be the same distance on both the front an back screw that are on the side closest to spur gear.

An out of aline engine will cause more than just bearing problems. It can also make your engine run hot and burn up clutch shoes as well.

Good Luck.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoclay View Post
Hello guys,

I am new to R/C Nitro Arena Truck racing. I and my family (3) bought Losi RTR 8ight-T kits about 3 weeks ago and decided we were going to go racing. We had raced Nitro Boats for a few years back in the mid 90s so we thought we would give cars a shot. Here is our, mainly mine, biggest issue.

THE CLUTCH!!! This thing eats bearings, im talkin two heat races (10 min. total) and its DONE! I went to an Invite over the weekend, changed them 3-4 times?????? and on top of that it kills the shoes! I talked to a few guys out there, but they were so busy it was hard to get alot of info and how toos. By the end of the day i did learn that you could convert them. I have a Kyosho set up on it now, but the mesh is a little short, i was told that the quick change motor mount would allow me to move the motor foward some to fix it. I am just tired of not finishing races. I raced a total of Five times this weekend and did not finish but one qualifier.

I am not mechanically challenged either. I understand bearing clearance, spacing, mesh alignment, heat factors, things like this.

Does the Losi 4 shoe system really suck? I seen losi's out there today checkin them out, i know one is running the 4 shoe system with no issue. I would say its something on my truck, but the other two have had some similar issues. Any and all info whould be greatly appreciated here.

I am OK with changing clutch bearings every weekend, new for the race day, but 4 a day?? not so cool.

BTW, just FYI, if it matters, the trucks are running the Dynamite 427s.

Thanx in advance!

1. If you have had bearing failures with the same clutch bell multiple times it may be damaged and oblong along the bearings to rock or turn inside the bell. They need to sit tight in the bell. Try replacing the bell and using GOOD bearings like the Avid Revolutions. 2. You have to run a loose, loose mesh. I always set mine so when you hold the clutch bell with your finger you can actually rock the spur gear back and forth and it will make a distinct clack clack sound. With the amount of flex the car has you need extra play or you will be driving the crankshaft and clutch bell into the spur gear with every jump and turn of the car. If you think you have enough play in your mesh because you understand gear mesh, Then run More than you normally would and it should work. 3. No The Losi 4 shoe setup is Aw some. Its easy to work on, easy to fine tune, it doesn't suck at all. I run 4 maxlifes with 2 gold and 2 silver and they last a months worth of racing. Or I run 2 Carbons 2 maxlifes with 2 gold 2 silvers. Good luck.
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Old 10-06-2008, 06:22 AM   #9
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thank you guys!! Keep em comin!!! All good stuff, i appreciate all the info. This at least gives me some confidence. I have noticed that the mesh is good, but might not be square? I will have to doublecheck. I also just may be running it a little tight, i have been doin the paper trick, but its a snug paper. Meaning, i keep it a little tight on the paper. Thinking removing the paper will be the perfect gap. I am usin the Avid Revolutions btw, i like there price. Did not remove any grease however. Never heard such a thing, if anything, i would think, man i need to add grease, but i have just been droppin em in and rippin. As it stands i am going to double check square and try to get this all set up. But i still think i am going to switch to the three shoe. It seems to be much more popular and its easier, at least locally, to find parts. Thanks again, but anymore suggestions, let me know, im really gettin tired of this issue!
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Old 10-06-2008, 06:22 AM   #10
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Vlad pretty much hit the nail on the head with that write up!!! I agree 100 per cent with him 9 out of ten times it's a user error, and trust me, I learned the hard way!!

The onlything I would add is that when installing the engine on the chassis, make sure you push it all the way forward then mesh it accordingly (do not have the pipe secured yet, it will throw everything off).

Once you've taken care of this step by step you will have long lasting bearings, I had the exact same problem, they wouldn't last more than 5 minutes, now I just took out the ones on my buggy have been there for about 1hour 15min and going to replace them just to be safe.
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:33 PM   #11
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vlad is spot on m8

i had exactly same probs when i started with my losi

would eat bearings every 5 mins.

Make sure cb and spur are square onto each other and run with looser mesh than youre used to on other buggys.

Cheers
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:37 PM   #12
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If your clutch is slipping a lot it will heat up, kill your bearings and wear your shoes out very fast.

This can happen by getting bearing grease in the clutch bell, running the wrong clutch springs or a poorly tuned engine (like during engine break in).

When you rebuild your clutch make sure there is no grease or oil on the shoes or clutch bell. I spray everything down with motor spray and clean up the inside of the bell with 600 grit sand paper. As mentioned above you also need to remove the majority of the grease out of the bearings, I use compressed air but there are other ways like heating them with a heat gun or spraying them with motor spay. Then put one drop of synthetic oil in the bearing, wipe any excess off before installing.

Hope you get it figured out
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:49 PM   #13
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You mentioned the quick change motor mount... get the King Heads with the extended "finger" that goes to the tank mount bolt. It reduces flex in the chassis where the cutouts are for the flywheel and spur gear. That helps quite a bit. And yes, the removeable parts of the mount (that stay on the engine for the "quick change" feature) allow you to move the engine forward to run "regular" clutches. I ran an all Mugen clutch setup on my Losi buggy, with that mount. It made a huge difference in reliability.

Losi buggies and truggies have an excessive amount of flex there... that's partly what makes them work so good... but... it is partly what makes them eat clutches. You need to run the clutch mesh looser than most... the "strip of paper" trick just isn't enough on a Losi really. (Even with the extended motor mount.)

Pay careful attention to your endplay... you need a LITTLE to keep from binding, but not more than a shim's worth.

And you don't have to clean the bearings with carb cleaner... I blow mine out with compressed air. The carb cleaner thing might clean them out TOO good.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:26 PM   #14
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vlad is definetly right on!!!
i have never had a bearing issue (knock on wood) but i do check afterevery raceday. i make sur that the spur and ring gears are square, alittle more slop than a paper width, and about .5mm-1mm slop on the clutch bell and there is room between the clutch bell and the flywheel...thats all i do and had great luck. hope all the info here helps...good luck
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:34 PM   #15
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.5 mm of gear seperation in the mesh , push engine forward while all screws are loose then tighten screws slowly and x pattern , properly shimmed clutch is very important as vlad said , heat bearings metal shield up with heat gun for about 30 seconds and place one drop of full synthetic gear lube , trim clutch shoes about every 30 min. of runtime and you will love the losi clutch . i wish i could run it on my kyosho's
2 losi hard aluminum with gold springs , two losi carbons with green springs

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