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Old 09-22-2008, 05:53 AM   #16
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Not sure I agree with your calculations. Did you just add the time it would have taken for Hara to pit one more time? Did you factor in the possibility that Hara might have had more power or been on the gas more if they used more pit stops. There are just too many variables to do a calculation like that.
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Its sad to see people saying things like what im reading at the moment.

First of all i dont want to sound rude but if i do forgive but im not having a go at any of you so i apologise if i offend anyone .

First not everyone here is an engineer not even racers and most dont know anything about geometry or engineering .
Hara is a top racer and an even better human being but we have to admit he can drive a piece of soap with wheels on it .
The D8 did not win him the race the pit strategy and the fuel economy of the Os engine won him the race not the buggy.
I did some calculations and if the top 4 drivers were all on the same pit stops Mike Truhe would have won that Race by over 32 secs and thats a true fact and hara would have ended up third or fourth .

Its got nothing to do with a buggy .A buggy is tops when anyone can drive it easily straight out of the box and there is only probably 3 only that can do that .

so guys what im saying is all buggies are great in there own way but saying a cheaper model has won the world title and the expensive models are crap is not nice .

well there is my two cent worth.

Its all marketing dudes like what wins on sunday will sell on monday but what wins on sunday might not win for you .
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:55 AM   #17
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Wonderfull result. A japanese driver wins the worlds on US soil. Nice one Hara.

Great manufacturer result.
Also the competition was so tough it was any mans game.
Any good buggy in the right hands couldve won.
So yes AE needs more work. Better luck next time LOSI.
Well done Jammin(my favourate car, its just out there reliable and always delivers)
Nobody speaks of Jammin. Same buggy evolved over time still a top performer. Wake up guys its staring you in the face. Jammin for life!
And well done Proline.
Hara has been wanting to win the Off-road gas worlds for a long time.
Dont feel bad guys Hara is good.

My question is what happened to the almighty Novarossi and RB engines.
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:08 AM   #18
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I wish to see how many parts were used/broken then exchanged for each brand. i wouldn't be surprise that some cars were running with some fresh new part after each run (I'm not speaking about tires here). We only see the top of the iceberg

For me that just prove that what win a race is a driver with a reliable equipement.

Not matter how powerfull is your motor and how your car is high tech. If a componement fail your will never finish a race.
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:37 AM   #19
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In the over 35 main (right before the Show) the two kyosho drivers were pulling in and out of the pits each lap and waiting on the straight for each other taking turns to lead the field. Granted it wasn't the show, but the driving ability was better than 99.5% of the races that the people on this forum attend on a regular basis and the two k cars DOMINATED. And showed, at least to me, that if you're not Hara and all other things being equal, the extra money spent on a kyosho may be worth it.

X-ray looked insanely smooth out there. Josh Wheeler and Ryan Lopez were killing it out there but both suffered silly maintenance issues in the later rounds (neither one manufacturer based and could have happened with any car). To me, being at the race, these cars were the most impressive.

My point, and what many here are saying, is that any of these cars can win. They are all solid cars with many of them copying heavily off each other to reduce what actually differentiates them from each other.

I think the one true statement in the original posters comment is that, all other things being equal, pretty impressive that a fairly stock car that costs $380 can run with and beat the big dogs. Unfortunately though, I'm not Hara so my wallet will probably be a fair amount lighter at the start of next season
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyboy View Post
My question is what happened to the almighty Novarossi and RB engines.
My question is what happened to the almighty Jammin's?
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Old 09-22-2008, 06:50 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerlaw View Post
I think the one true statement in the original posters comment is that, all other things being equal, pretty impressive that a fairly stock car that costs $380 can run with and beat the big dogs.
I think the one true statement that can be taken from all of this is that Hara's ride, by the time you add all the extra non-stock doo-dads and what-nots and specialty engineered pieces, it would cost a whole lot more than 380-bones to reproduce... probably more like a grand.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:03 AM   #22
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This price of the buggy argument is almost as big a pile of crap as the Buffalo Bill's Super Bowl performances.

Equipment does help to a point but driving and luck is what really gets it done.

Adam Drake won the Midwest Indoor Truggy race with a Proto type Muggy. It was a cross between an LST2 and a sportwerks buggy.

I think people need to stop get off the computer and go race.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:11 AM   #23
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I think people need to look up the word "prototype" so they understand the difference between it and "stock RTR"!

Either that or see about handing one to one of the bigname pros at a race, before walking away with your head bowed and tail stuck between your legs as the bust out laughing in your face at your suggestion.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:42 AM   #24
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To me, Hara winning does not mean 600+ cars are junk, it only means that the D8 is a good car.

The prices of buggies are generally in line with the prices of 1/8th onroad cars despite the fact that buggies have far more machined parts.

One thing to keep in mind about cheaper kits (and I am NOT saying this is the case with the D8, I haven't run one so I wouldn't know), but they are usually cheaper for very good reasons. They have cheaper stamped aluminum parts, cheap bearings, use as many "off the shelf" parts from previous cars as possible and often the steel drivetrain parts are not as hard and wear more quickly. The buggy may still be capable of winning but what you saved on initial cost ends up being spent on upgrades and maintenance.

I often hear people gripe about a new kit not coming with certain types of parts. Go read the MBX6 thread and you will see right after the photo of a team driver's car loaded with titanium turnbuckles, screws and aluminum shock towers are a bunch of complaints about the kit not coming with those parts. If it did the kit would cost 900 bux and those same people would be griping about the price.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyboy View Post

My question is what happened to the almighty Novarossi and RB engines.
Not many top drivers were running them. Too many sponsor tie-ins and Nova doesn't seem to have a tie in with anyone anymore.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:50 AM   #26
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One thing to keep in mind about cheaper kits (and I am NOT saying this is the case with the D8, I haven't run one so I wouldn't know), but they are usually cheaper for very good reasons. They have cheaper stamped aluminum parts, cheap bearings, use as many "off the shelf" parts from previous cars as possible and often the steel drivetrain parts are not as hard and wear more quickly. The buggy may still be capable of winning but what you saved on initial cost ends up being spent on upgrades and maintenance.

I often hear people gripe about a new kit not coming with certain types of parts. Go read the MBX6 thread and you will see right after the photo of a team driver's car loaded with titanium turnbuckles, screws and aluminum shock towers are a bunch of complaints about the kit not coming with those parts. If it did the kit would cost 900 bux and those same people would be griping about the price.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:04 AM   #27
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To me i don't think any buggies were pieces of crap. I mean i might ne wrong but wasn't this the mp9's first big race??? the HB team got to race at the manufactorers cup and probably some othe race so they had time fine tune thier buggy. Ryan held it down in qualifying for four straight days with the rc8 but Mike truhe was the spoiler in the last two with the 8ight (2.0) mugen came in third the only big buggy that i didn't hear of was the xray 808 but that doesn't make them crap there could be numerous reasons why they didn't do good one is wheeler was having tire issues and last time i checked tire issues are not the buggies fault.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:14 AM   #28
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Big well done to Hara and HB any WC is a major result end of.

we already know that Hara was running a few mods to his car including a machined chassis to reduce weight and other mods, sub $400 keep adding.

take a look at the entire week the rains flooded and ruined the track the seeding runs for qualifying were a joke if you made it you got a result, then the actual qualifying was worse so many mixed abilities and the cars left to race it out, yeah that s right race it out in qualy its a clock your racing get real and let the fast guys through, the amount of qualy runs i saw blocked because there was one line and no one making room for quicker drivers you could see the expression on their faces look at me im racing Maifield or Truhe get real.

then the finals, tbh this is where the real luck comes in the straight was kinda short which really bunched up all the cars so generally however got through made the bump up spots, the amount of finals i saw over the weekend where the quickest drivers never bumped because of bad starts was unreal, this in no way detracts from those who made it into the A, it took talent and a touch of luck to make it in.

as for the K car bad luck on the drivers part or not enough wheel time pre worlds who knows, as for price Kanai was interviewed in one of the us mags with first shots of the car and he said the reason for the price was because they still produce all the parts for the car in Tokyo Japan, this has + and -, on the + he can make changes to the car parts immediately and get proto parts out asap on the - it costs more to do it this way, i suppose it depends on how important R&D is to your company and customers.

for me i spend money on a product i know will last and save me money in the long run, if this cost me more initially then thats the price but it saves on DNF's.

anyone else thinking of tapping up HB for sponsorship send them a letter dont soft talk them in the forums
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:16 AM   #29
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this thread is pathetic. you obvoiusly didnt spend anytime at the worlds except for sunday.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
Its sad to see people saying things like what im reading at the moment.

First of all i dont want to sound rude but if i do forgive but im not having a go at any of you so i apologise if i offend anyone .

First not everyone here is an engineer not even racers and most dont know anything about geometry or engineering .
Hara is a top racer and an even better human being but we have to admit he can drive a piece of soap with wheels on it .
The D8 did not win him the race the pit strategy and the fuel economy of the Os engine won him the race not the buggy.
I did some calculations and if the top 4 drivers were all on the same pit stops Mike Truhe would have won that Race by over 32 secs and thats a true fact and hara would have ended up third or fourth .

Its got nothing to do with a buggy .A buggy is tops when anyone can drive it easily straight out of the box and there is only probably 3 only that can do that .

so guys what im saying is all buggies are great in there own way but saying a cheaper model has won the world title and the expensive models are crap is not nice .

well there is my two cent worth.

Its all marketing dudes like what wins on sunday will sell on monday but what wins on sunday might not win for you .
WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING DUDE!!! you need to go back and smoke another one...
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