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Old 09-16-2008, 01:01 AM   #1
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Default Pillow ball vs. king pin, pros & cons?

Was wondering if anyone can enlighten me and throw out the pros and cons of the two different designs. A majority of the new buggies coming out soon have gone (or stuck with) to the king pin design and the only one (that I know of) that is still using the pillow ball design is the Mugen6. I did have the honor of fondeling a Mugen6 and I must say it is pretty nice. It's actually one I would really consider running if I decide to jump ship from the losi8, I guess that is why I am asking this question. Personally, my experience (from on-road) with pillow ball set-ups is that they were a pain in the butt. Any good input would be appreciated, thanks.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:05 PM   #2
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okay...stupid question or no one knows? Or no one cares LOL
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:11 PM   #3
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I like pillow ball setups because of the simplicity and less parts possible to break on the hubs or screws to fall out. I think they are tougher too. You do not see too many pillow ball knuckles broken but you do see alot of C-hubs broken or people have to upgrade there knuckles to CNC to help prevent it.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:38 PM   #4
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I've read somewhere that C-hub style offers a greater range of travel, both steering and suspension..... i may be wrong? just what i read!
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Old 09-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #5
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With a pillow ball setup you can use "active caster", the caster changes as the suspension compresses depending on the differences in angle of the upper and lower arm.

How useful this is I couldn't tell you, that’s basically the extent of my knowledge of pillow ball suspension.
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Old 09-16-2008, 08:17 PM   #6
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C-Hubs have more up and down travel with more steering freedom at its lowest position. If you break a steering knuckle its quicker to fix.

Pillow ball binds more and if you break the steering knuckle you have to replace the whole pillow knuckle by detaching both upper and lower arms.

C-Hubs are better. Plane and simple.
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Old 09-16-2008, 08:50 PM   #7
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thanks for the info. much appreciated!!!
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Old 09-16-2008, 09:27 PM   #8
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All the above is accurate. Personally, with the pillow ball setup my front upper arms wear out at a higher rate compared to the C hub design.
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Old 09-17-2008, 06:34 AM   #9
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Also with PB, the suspension alignment depends MORE on the amount of slop in the parts. As parts wear the suspension/steering becomes less consistant.
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Old 09-17-2008, 06:37 AM   #10
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pb= pain in the a$$ to set up and keep right. and bump steer out the a$$
king pins are easy but the hot bodies desing is the best screw into plastic
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Old 09-17-2008, 09:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stipres View Post
Personally, my experience (from on-road) with pillow ball set-ups is that they were a pain in the butt.
This is an off-road section.

My experience has been that everything works, and every design has it's reason and it's place. And there generally is a reason when a manufacturer switches from one design to another, whether it works better or is easier to maintain is hard to say. But what might work on-road doesn't mean it's going to translate to off-road use, and vice-versa.
I guess the final choice depends on the end-user and what they prefer.
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Old 09-17-2008, 09:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
This is an off-road section.
thanks everyone for your input and yes i do know this is an offroad thread. that is why i put it here. if you read my first post, i talk about offroad buggies and i am running the losi8. I was saying my pillow ball experience was with 8th scale on-road The main reason i am asking this is because i was thinking about getting a Mugen6 which is still using the PB design.
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:23 AM   #13
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Technically what you are calling kingpin setups are actually called c-hub front ends. Thunder Tiger's EB4 S1 and S2 used a kingpin which is sort of in between a c-hub and pillow ball.

There are a few advantages to pillow balls.

1. Width is adjustable
2. Caster changes are very quick
3. Active caster is available if you want to try it
4. The knuckle can be tightened up as it wears to eliminate slop
5. No need for $70 CNC steering knuckles
6. No chance of screws coming out of $70 steering knuckles
7. At least for the Mugen the steering knuckle is stronger than the hub carriers on the c-hub cars
8. A tweaked c-hub lower arm will affect caster. Not a problem with p-ball

Disadvantages

1. Dirt may foul them quicker
2. Weight at least with stainless steel balls, MBX6 uses aluminum so probably no difference there between c-hub and p-ball
3. Upper arm can break which is extremely rare with c-hubs
4. Lower p-ball can come loose in lower arm and affect camber/width and also end your race. That is usually the only way a Mugen arm will fail.
5. P-ball can bend although I have rarely seen it
6. You will need power tools (power screwdriver) to quickly change an upper or lower arm as the p-balls are pretty tight in the arms

Mugen is really the only company to have success with a pillow ball car and there are a lot more advantages to the Mugen that might make you forget about the pillow ball differences. In my experience newbies struggle a lot more with c-hubs falling off or breaking than with pillowballs unscrewing.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porkchop View Post
pb= pain in the a$$ to set up and keep right. and bump steer out the a$$
king pins are easy but the hot bodies desing is the best screw into plastic
Getting rid of bump steer on pillow ball suspension is like a 2.00 fix and its all Gone BTW.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING View Post
C-Hubs have more up and down travel with more steering freedom at its lowest position. If you break a steering knuckle its quicker to fix.

Pillow ball binds more and if you break the steering knuckle you have to replace the whole pillow knuckle by detaching both upper and lower arms.

C-Hubs are better. Plane and simple.
How many C-hub knuckles you see break or lose screws compared to PB?? A hell of lot more so I think PB is more reliable.
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