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Old 08-28-2008, 05:38 PM   #1
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Default What will electric do to nitro?

I race 1/10 scale electric and 1/8 nitro. And I love both for different reasons. With Losi letting out an Eight-E, it kinda drove in home for me. I trully think it will bring more people out racing in 1/8th scale. But to what avail? I guess I'm worried about my nitro stuff being a "relic". I know there has ben post about this before, and I looked at electric 1/8th as kinda of a novilty. Like I said, with Losi bringing out a factory production electric 1/8th, it's got me concerned. I don't what to give up my nitro stuff. One of the tracks I race at has a starting gate that lets all 10 buggys go at the same time. And when all 10 are screamming down the straight to the first turn... I mean, that is by far one of the coolest sounds I've ever herd. I don't want to see it go.

Thanks for letting me speak..
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Old 08-28-2008, 05:48 PM   #2
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I use to race electric a while back, then when i moved to cali, i tried out nitro and i will never go back! you cannot replace the realism of nitro, i personally like tuning my engines, i like pit strategies, i like the sound and the feel. I also like the fact i do not need to constantly charge batteries. JMHO
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Old 08-28-2008, 05:55 PM   #3
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I don't think nitro will go away.

Take the helicopters for example... Lipo power has caught on big but it hasn't overtaken the nitro ones. I think part of it though is that if you crash, it's very easy to damage the lipo in which case it's junk. I don't see that happening as often with the 1/8 scale buggies/truggies, unless you take a VERY hard t-bone hit of some sort it's going to be tougher to damage the battery pack.

One prohibitive cost is the batteries and chargers required, plus the limited runtime(due to charging) unless you have multiple packs.

They sure do have a lot more overall torque and power than a nitro buggy but this also requires some restraint with the trigger finger. I've seen an electric 8ight do more crashing than getting around the track because I guess whoever was on the trigger was a little enthusiastic.

I like the sound/smell of nitro, and I actually find tuning the engine(though I'm still learning this) quite fun actually. No danger of a lipo fire or worrying about over-discharging a lipo and wrecking it. REAL pit stops are fun and add to strategy.

So each has it's pros and cons, I don't mind seeing the electrics coming out of the woodwork, if it gets more people to race I'm all for it
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Old 08-28-2008, 06:00 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by fiveoboy01 View Post
I don't think nitro will go away.

Take the helicopters for example... Lipo power has caught on big but it hasn't overtaken the nitro ones. I think part of it though is that if you crash, it's very easy to damage the lipo in which case it's junk.
I didn't even think of that. I've been fling helis for over 15 years, and a couple of years ago I bought a T-rex, flew it for a little wile, the novelty of it wore off. And went back to nitro.
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:56 PM   #5
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the realism of a car thats 1/8th the size, loox nothing like a real car (1/8 AE corr truck not withstanding), and sounds like a weedwhacker. throw in some nitro scent and ur 1 step away from the vehicle they rejected from willy wonka hahaha.

bleh, i tried nitro for a couple yrs. just horridly put off by all the noise at tracks, folks gunnin their engines to 'warm them up', lots more work involved to do it right, then racing again all that noise, folks runnin around with their dead cars or outta fuel, nah i'll pass. when u lose sight of ur car on the track b/c some guy who cant get his motor to run right is bendin over yellin at his volunteer pit guy tellin em which way to turn it over the roar of the other motors. again no thx. i also like b'g able to nod off here and there between rds (odd that my pic hasnt come up in the fall asleep at track thread).

electric is superior in terms of the platform. however if u like nitro, go with it. it doesnt help the hobby if nitro (or gas - respect to our giant scalers) goes away.

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Old 08-28-2008, 09:08 PM   #6
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...and electrics are faster in acceleration, have better braking, and can have higher top speed depending on gearing. Initial costs are a little higher to similar depending on what you pick out, but otherwise, electric will be cheaper over time unless the charger is plugged into your wall outlet....lol. (It will still be way cheaper)
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:19 PM   #7
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...and electrics are faster in acceleration, have better braking, and can have higher top speed depending on gearing. Initial costs are a little higher to similar depending on what you pick out, but otherwise, electric will be cheaper over time unless the charger is plugged into your wall outlet....lol. (It will still be way cheaper)
I differ on what you say about braking. I've raced electrics for a long time and recently picked up nitro. I've never had more brake. Additionally nitro cars have way more control in the air.

As far as acceleration electrics do have more torque, however if a nitro car is not loaded up and both nitro and electric drag race it's going to be dead heat... equal engine to motor of course. I do think Nitro has more ability to get a higher top speed. One thing I found out about nitro is that most people still need to learn to properly tune a nitro engine.


I don't think nitro is going anywhere... but that's just my two

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Old 08-28-2008, 09:28 PM   #8
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No nitro isn't going anywhere. But I do think the classes will be more dilluted. Where once you had a full class of nitro 1/8 buggies, now there will be fewer nitro but more electric. Once the electric buggies are in full swing the classes will divide. That's where the car counts will suffer. I'd like to have an electric buggy to play with at home. That would be cool. Stress relief to just hold WFO for a bit and see what she'll do.
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Old 08-28-2008, 09:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
electric will be cheaper over time
I'd actually like to see a comparison here.... Not arguing but I remember doing a comparison with an electric vs. nitro heli(.50 size, 600mm bladed heli) and as far as fuel cost vs. lipo cost, it was nearly a dead heat if you figured 200 cycles out of the lipo.

I think 200 cycles is a reasonable expectation out of a lipo with proper maintenance...

3,785cc in one gallon.... Which would equate to 25 tankfulls of fuel using a 150cc tank... 200 runs is 16 gallons.... Times about 30 bucks is $480.00 in fuel used... Of course I don't think many engines used for racing will last that long, some yes but I doubt it's normal. I guess you could count in piston/sleeve replacement once or twice if you wanted to

Another way to look at it is per run... $30.00/gallon divided by 25 is $1.20 per run in fuel cost....

Now what I don't know is what will a lipo cost for your typical 1/8 scale buggy/truggy? I'm guessing it's around 200-250 bucks or so for one? Not sure on that. I'll go with $250, assume a name-brand lipo with a high C rating and assume 200 cycles.

$250/200 is $1.25 per run.. Again I could be way off with the lipo price though. $200 lipo would be $1.00 per run... Of course this also depends, I'll assume that you can get more minutes out of a 5000-6000mah pack than you can get on one tank of fuel(11-13 minutes with a well-tuned .21)....

Anyways feel free to dissect my numbers, I've done it with helis but never cars
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Don Duct View Post
I differ on what you say about braking. I've raced electrics for a long time and recently picked up nitro. I've never had more brake. Additionally nitro cars have way more control in the air.

As far as acceleration electrics do have more torque, however if a nitro car is not loaded up and both nitro and electric drag race it's going to be dead heat... equal engine to motor of course. I do think Nitro has more ability to get a higher top speed. One thing I found out about nitro is that most people still need to learn to properly tune a nitro engine.


I don't think nitro is going anywhere... but that's just my two

-Don
Nitro ain't going anywhere. The class will divide once there are enough electrics. I do think electric will be the most popular class though over time and at some point you are going to see electric only 1/8 scale tracks (particularly indoors). I think electric will help the hobby grow. In some ways, nitro has retarded growth due to the noise. Hpefully, electric will allow us to get more tracks open in high density areas instead of having to always drive out into the sticks to race.

Regarding performance, not sure how you are getting that the cars handle differently in the air. Many electrics have mechanical brakes if you want brake bias, but most of us do just fine with using the motor brakes. Racing electric 1/8 is a whole different driving style than a nitro. Completely different.

Regarding performance, I am sorry, but a there ain't a nitro engine made that can hang with brushless/lipo 1/8. I don't care how modded, what Italian made it, it just ain't happening. Not in acceleration and not in top end. A Neu motor can spin at 60,000 rpms reliably. A highly tuned nitro motor is lucky to get 35,000 rpms. Basically, a simple battery change will make pretty much any brushless motor faster than a nitro could ever dream.

Most of the guys who race these cars tune to make the cars slower, not faster. We usually set them up with a motor and battery to spin at 30-40,000 rpms to make them similar in top end to an nitro. My slow setup is still faster than pretty much any nitro on the track down the straights and with nearly every other electric I know though. My fast setup can get my rc8 past 70 mph in about 2.5 seconds.

Admittedly, all that power is pretty much useless on a track. I usually set my car up for about 40 mph which is plenty for racing. However, I can get to that 40 mph about 2x's as fast a nitro. Even if the nitro has higher top end, you will not catch me in time before the next turn due to the acceleration. We have a 200 foot straight at my track and NO ONE, I mean not a single nitro has ever passed me on that straight. I have walked away from semi-pro racers like they were driving radio shack cars on that straight. Of course, they always immediately catch me in the turns and other parts of the track like I am the one with the radio shack car proving that it isn't so much electric vs nitro, but really comes down to driving skills.

I am really curious though if a pro-level driver could turn faster laps with an electric.
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by fiveoboy01 View Post
I'd actually like to see a comparison here.... Not arguing but I remember doing a comparison with an electric vs. nitro heli(.50 size, 600mm bladed heli) and as far as fuel cost vs. lipo cost, it was nearly a dead heat if you figured 200 cycles out of the lipo.

I think 200 cycles is a reasonable expectation out of a lipo with proper maintenance...

3,785cc in one gallon.... Which would equate to 25 tankfulls of fuel using a 150cc tank... 200 runs is 16 gallons.... Times about 30 bucks is $480.00 in fuel used... Of course I don't think many engines used for racing will last that long, some yes but I doubt it's normal. I guess you could count in piston/sleeve replacement once or twice if you wanted to

Another way to look at it is per run... $30.00/gallon divided by 25 is $1.20 per run in fuel cost....

Now what I don't know is what will a lipo cost for your typical 1/8 scale buggy/truggy? I'm guessing it's around 200-250 bucks or so for one? Not sure on that. I'll go with $250, assume a name-brand lipo with a high C rating and assume 200 cycles.

$250/200 is $1.25 per run.. Again I could be way off with the lipo price though. $200 lipo would be $1.00 per run... Of course this also depends, I'll assume that you can get more minutes out of a 5000-6000mah pack than you can get on one tank of fuel(11-13 minutes with a well-tuned .21)....

Anyways feel free to dissect my numbers, I've done it with helis but never cars
You can buy lipos for $100 bucks a pop now... just gotta know where to shop. A good setup should be able to get 20 minutes pretty easily. Some of the "hotter" setups are around 15 minutes. I can get 25 minutes with a 1700kv motor and a 5s 5000 lipo.
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:41 PM   #12
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100 bucks for a 5s 5000 lipo? What's the C rating?

Maybe the cars draw a lot less amps but I know 20-25C is the desired rating for a flight lipo....

Anyways thanks for clarifying the numbers a little. Each has its advantage, it's clear that all-out performance is with the electric, but like you added I don't think there are too many tracks you can use it all.

Either way I think they're cool, we let a guy at our track run an electric buggy and he does well against the nitros, I know he doesn't always win, but he's always in the top 5 or so in the A.
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:51 PM   #13
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its the same c rating im in the process of my brushless conversion. if i didnt go all out and spend 300 on a charger and power supply i would have less then i did in my nitro. either way im going brushless because nitro lost its fun and when i move the new neighbors will like it alot better then the nitro flying around when im tuning the engines before the race weekend
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:36 PM   #14
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Electric is used to start your nitro thats about all is does or will do to nitro!!!
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Old 08-28-2008, 11:56 PM   #15
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the realism of a car thats 1/8th the size, loox nothing like a real car (1/8 AE corr truck not withstanding), and sounds like a weedwhacker. throw in some nitro scent and ur 1 step away from the vehicle they rejected from willy wonka hahaha.

bleh, i tried nitro for a couple yrs. just horridly put off by all the noise at tracks, folks gunnin their engines to 'warm them up', lots more work involved to do it right, then racing again all that noise, folks runnin around with their dead cars or outta fuel, nah i'll pass. when u lose sight of ur car on the track b/c some guy who cant get his motor to run right is bendin over yellin at his volunteer pit guy tellin em which way to turn it over the roar of the other motors. again no thx. i also like b'g able to nod off here and there between rds (odd that my pic hasnt come up in the fall asleep at track thread).

electric is superior in terms of the platform. however if u like nitro, go with it. it doesnt help the hobby if nitro (or gas - respect to our giant scalers) goes away.

R

Sounds like one of them whiny electric guys. You make the same whiny squeaky as your electric cars do. The noise, the dust, I hate pitting for them, I hate marshalling them, I burnt my hand. I burnt my hand before on electric cars before did you see me cry about NO. Or we want our race day with nitro cars it's our quiet day. Also seems the ones who can't keep nitro car running are the biggest cry babies about it (who tried and gave up). Running a nitro car really isn't hard or cost more.

You miss the point about nitro cars it's about making run the whole race without breaking or dying. The really good poeple can keep them running. Thats it close to full size race car like pitting and etc.
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