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Old 08-05-2008, 09:27 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by fiveoboy01 View Post
Is it your position that someone battling for 4th 5th or 6th place should just move over for the leaders even if it means losing a spot or two in their own battle?
The simple and widely understood answer is YES.

I can't think of a situation where moving over to be lapped would HAVE to result in a racer losing a place to someone there racing for position. I know it CAN happen, but can't think of a situation where it's deffinate. If you asking if I think it's right even though they'll lose ground, well that all depends on how they allow the pass to be made, If everyones on the same page and works to help each other then VERY LITTLE ground will be lost. If the back marker holds up the front runners while continuing there battle at some point the front runners are going to try and pass, this is the point at which accidents occur and the back marker accuse's the front runner of taking him out, when what actually happened is he shut the door on someone thats already waited an age in the vain hope he moves a little to allow them through.........

Also remember the guys infront that your battling with should be letting the front runners through too. So they will loss about the same amount of time as you when they do. If this isn't the case and your finding you lose alot of ground when being lapped and those infront of you don't, MAYBE it's time to take a little time out. MISS a race or to and see how the better drivers allow the front runners through without losing alot of ground doing it YOU will become a better driver for it.

PLEASE remember I'm talking generally and about a generic situation, I don't know you guys personnelly or about the problems you might be having locally where you race.

This is "best practice" advise and I believe in a perfect world we'd all like to have a good race. Unfortunately some people will be at the back of the field whilst some will be at the front. NO ONE should be trying to upset someone else's race. Therefore holding up the front runners and interferring with there race because your busy battling in you race, is equally as bad as them not caring about your battle and hacking through at the first opertunity they get. It's all about WORKING TOGETHER .........

Rod
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:33 AM   #122
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This was filmed this past weekend....Alan is in the Losi that swings wide over the pipe. I pass in front of him at that point............



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jda-mMNHm4
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:47 AM   #123
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How can you disagree more? If you race for a living, you would understand that paying over $300 for just fuel a night would be pretty pricey. If I'm going to pay to get into a race, even just the $75 for the Nitro Challenge at the Nitro-Pit, how can you just give it up like that and let them go by, IF you are racing for position. You need to remember that I understand what you are saying if you are racing by yourself and the leaders come up on you, then yes, have SOME common sense and get out of the way, because you are obviously not doing anything but trying to stay on the track and make up time somehow.

I am in NO way trying to start an argument, but for you to be a racer, and say that you would move over just because the leaders were tailing you not far behind, and you were racing 2 or more other racers for position, then by all means, please do, but honestly, I don't see it happening if racers are battling for that position.

This brings up the other scenario, which I would like you to explain, or anyone for that matter, because I'm curious, what if you were trying to move out of the way of a leader, and they still bump, or 'run' over you, and what if something broke on your car, would you be angry, or the happiest person at the track because you were getting out of the leaders' way but they don't care about your car?? Keep in mind an R/C shock kit costs about $20-$30 less than if you were to buy one for an actual stock car, or any other part for that matter, excluding engines and transmissions of course.

Just a question, and No, I don't try to start arguments, I try to make things make sense, not only to try to help others understand, but myself as well. I can still learn things although I've been doing this my whole life. There's always a learning part in the brain
Right since were not arguing I'll do my best. Please remember I'm going by what I would do and what I believe is right and proper.

Answer to your question, Yes you move over to let the front runners through, IF you've done this in a sensible place at a sensible time and made room for the fast guys and they still manage to hit you, take you out or break something then I believe you have every right to be upset and call them out on it. BUT letting them though should be your NORMAL course of action.

You can't go mad though if 9 time's out of 10 you get on with your own racing blocking the front runners and then on the one occasion you deciede to allow them to pass get upset if they pull a stupid move. BEACUSE THEY DON'T EXPECT YOU TO BE ONSIDE AND TRYING TO HELP ...........

ULTIMATELY this is all about the fastest way of getting around the track, IF your busy working out how to pass someone in front while also trying to keep a guy from lapping you I absolutely guarantee you, your lapping slower than if you let the fast guys through and concentrated on your own race again ....

Rod
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:59 AM   #124
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Oh and for the record,

Last meeting I went to (regional championship meeting). My buggy stopped 15ft after the start of the Amian . Putting me almost a lap down on the leaders. Pushing hard trying to make up ground at the 10min mark I was back to 4th when the leaders caught me.

Then the leader atempts a pass on a jump thats placed on a section of track only 20ft long. I ran wide on the corner before thinking I was making room for him to go up the inside, he was hard on the GAS trying to make the pass overly early, which made his buggy push wide. Next thing were on the same racing line although I'm slowing and moved over wide to allow him though, HE's hard on the gas and run wide by accident. NEXT thing is my buggy's taken a huge shunt in the rear bending both rear shock shaft's, next thing it's hit the fencing which snaged a wheel breaking the front wishbone,diff out drive and shock ending my race.

Did I do the right thing trying to allow him through , OF COURSE . My race was still over just the same and to boot I now got a last place result in a series I'm currently leading......

Rod
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:18 AM   #125
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That Losi buggy punted you through that ripple section and you still let him go by, you really are a nice guy.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:25 AM   #126
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That Losi buggy punted you through that ripple section and you still let him go by, you really are a nice guy.


Ha Ha...that's a classic one right there.

And I'll never let him forget about it either.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:30 AM   #127
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I do need to clarify a few things though....


Nothing that I have posted here is/has been meant to make someone else look bad. I'm not taking shots at anyone that was on the track in that race...and I'm not mad or upset by the outcome of that race. If I was...I would have used names instead of "the leaders" to describe who I was talking about. I had a great time...even though I didn't have the best race day.



And I still moved into 3rd in the points.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:31 AM   #128
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And yes....I'm talking to you.


Just so we're clear.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:54 AM   #129
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All the stupid banter here withstanding... If you are going a lap down, you are obviously slower than the leader behind you. The fastest way around the track for BOTH parties involved is for the car being passed to slow down and move off the racing line in a safe area and let the leader pass, then speed back up. You need to make your move off the racing line deliberate so the leader can see what you are doing. Yes once in awhile you will get drilled for being nice anyway, but the vast majority of the time it will work out.

No one has ever gained time by fighting with the leaders to go a lap down. The leader will get frustrated and more than likely punt you off the track.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:05 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by move over View Post
I honestly can't say that I've ever run over a backmarker that was trying to get out of the way, then again there are ways to do it and places to do it and there are places not to do it, but it seems every time I've been accused of running someone over it's been because they raced me for a corner or chopped my line as I was attempting to go by them and had taken the line from them because I was faster or was going faster going into that corner.


The scenario I'd like to give back to you, because I'm curious about so many of the answers in this thread, is how would you feel about it if you were in position to to win a race and because of the actions of someone well back in the standings --- not running for a podium spot --- chopped you off into a pipe or barrier and something broke as a result of their action on your car and took you out of the race or left you with broken parts to replace?


I guess part of my concern about this discussion is that people are mentioning running for position or racing with someone else relative to when the leaders approach and not wanting to give way, and I wonder if they are actually running for a podium spot or are they just defending their right to position on the track that results in them running 7th or 8th. I'm not trying to be offensive, but running for a trophy spot is one thing but the other is something else entirely that doesn't really count in my book.
If there are 3 cars battling it out FP, and the leaders come up, if I was the leaders, I wouldn't expect them to get out of the way, you have to be racey enough but patient enough to get that hole and pass them. If they are racing and move around to try and pass their FP opponent, and run over the front of your car or whatnot breaking something, that's what we call, a racing incident. I'll admit that I would be a bit pissed off because something was broken on my car, but I would understand completely that was just racing, and that happens, ALL the time.

It should be clear that you can't expect anyone to get out of the racing groove, just because the leaders are there. They have a race going on, too. Whether it's for Podium or not, it's still a race, whether if it's for 4th-5th or 6th-2087th, it's a race.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:13 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by David Day View Post
If there are 3 cars battling it out FP, and the leaders come up, if I was the leaders, I wouldn't expect them to get out of the way, you have to be racey enough but patient enough to get that hole and pass them. If they are racing and move around to try and pass their FP opponent, and run over the front of your car or whatnot breaking something, that's what we call, a racing incident. I'll admit that I would be a bit pissed off because something was broken on my car, but I would understand completely that was just racing, and that happens, ALL the time.

It should be clear that you can't expect anyone to get out of the racing groove, just because the leaders are there. They have a race going on, too. Whether it's for Podium or not, it's still a race, whether if it's for 4th-5th or 6th-2087th, it's a race.
I am of a similar mindset. I don't expect anyone to pull over for me (sometimes the lapped traffic does not even know you are the leader), but just do my best to get through it clean, especially if I am lapping a battle for position.

If a leader is trying to lap me and I am not in a heated battle for position, I will always go offline and let them pass.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:28 AM   #132
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Again, there are good points in what you say but I feel you let yourself down at the end.
This attitude of "an eye for an eye" does not work and is so dissopointing........... to me anyway.
You say this like I do it every time I might close up on somebody, and within 1 second of them not letting up I just hit them. That is not how I think it works...

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If you do something, or are willing to do something wrong, bad, unsportsman like. Then your as bad as the 14th place guy who is intentionally trying to block you. Just because you have, what in your eyes is a good reason, does not entitle you to make that "choice" as you put it and move him out of the way.
No, that's completely off. You like to think that I believe that just because I got tapped it means all bets are off and it's time to go wild on them - that's not what I'm saying at all.

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It comes down to the type of person you are and the environment you were brought up in or live in now. If you are used to people doing bad or unkind things around you, or if were brought up to hit back if hit environment, then you may end up perceiving that a driver on the track is trying to block you when actually, they are panicking and do not know how or what to do with a three way fight for the lead right on his tale!
That's great and all, but this is a discussion about r/c car racing etiqutte not psychology 101.

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Yes, there are those who do this and want to keep you behind them. But if you've ever tried to do this. To on purposly block those behind you. It takes some skill !
The problem is that these people are usually less skilled or just being assholes and will take you out by ramming into you full throttle from behind once you actually get past them, and it's frustrating and unfair.

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People will be who they are. A tree is known by it's fruit. So if you take out another car with that intent. To move them out of the way, or to take them out the race...........for what ever reason you drum up inside of you.
It does not make it 'right', no matter what reason you state for your acts..........no matter how frustrated you are. You have still done wrong !
I'm not looking for ethics in somebody that would just hit me or block me for no reason because they obviously have no morals when it comes to racing. And I don't care if you think it's wrong, if you get hit for me it's fair to hit them back. Now I said before, I've tried to be nice but with alot of people, it simply doesn't work.

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On the whole. I have seen some good manners on the race track over here in the states. Hopefully, we will not dwell too much on the bad things that happen and take notice of those who are well mannered and act in a sportsman like way.

One such case occured just this last week at a racetrack in Moline, Illinois. Thunderroad. I can't for the life of me remember the guys names in all this but in short it went a little like this.........

In the main. Guy B had qualified 5th and was catching the leader. This had taken most of the 20 minute final and there was about 5 mins left to race. He was on his tale. Neck and neck they raced. Great race! On the last lap, car B tried again to get around the leader and they tangled. B just took too much of a chance with no real opening there. B got away first and in the lead while car A had to wait for the marshall.
Car B then got around to the finnish loop and stopped. (Which was only two or three corners away) He let the previous leader, car A, through to win the race! He did not want to win due to his mystake.

Not quite on the subject of "backmarkers" but a good example of manners I feel.

Regards,
British Menace

P.S. Sorry for the long post
I personally don't care for the rest of this, I'm not looking for manners, I'm just saying what I think is right, what I'll do in certain situations, etc...
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:35 AM   #133
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I think it's important NOT to forget that there are a million different scenarios that will affect how each one of us will react in the given situation....and it is apparent that all of us have been on both sides of the fence on this subject.

Last edited by skeller; 08-05-2008 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:47 AM   #134
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It should be clear that you can't expect anyone to get out of the racing groove, just because the leaders are there. They have a race going on, too. Whether it's for Podium or not, it's still a race, whether if it's for 4th-5th or 6th-2087th, it's a race.
what should be clear is that if you're running for 6th or 2087th and don't show the courtesy to move out of the way for those battling to actually win the race you end up with a reputation that won't do you any favors in your next race and is hard to live down in the future. It's about being courtesous and considerate enough to move over for those that actually have a chance to win and not unduly influencing the outcome because of your inconsideratness.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:58 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by move over View Post
what should be clear is that if you're running for 6th or 2087th and don't show the courtesy to move out of the way for those battling to actually win the race you end up with a reputation that won't do you any favors in your next race and is hard to live down in the future. It's about being courtesous and considerate enough to move over for those that actually have a chance to win and not unduly influencing the outcome because of your inconsideratness.
If that's the way the leaders of that race would portray me, or anyone in that matter, after that, then let them. If they can't understand that's racing, then that's their deal. They'll have to live with a grudge. Yea I might have to as well, because they would probably take me out at the start, but that would just be stupid :P

It's "common sense" that you can't expect somebody racing FP to just get out of the way of the leaders. Their RACING, so be a racer and race around it all. That's how racing is, and always will be, whether anyone likes it or not.
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