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Old 08-04-2008, 04:44 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by szakcajaru View Post
whether you're in third or not is inconsequential and not really the point - the point is you're still a lap down and obviously considerably off the pace of the leaders regardless of how it happened. that's not to say that you should take a poor line and have a wreck immediately, but it is to say that there are places on every track where you can run wide or slow appreciably out of the primary racing line and let the leaders go.
as far as getting punted or run over, this happens because backmarkers have developed a "I paid to run too mentality" and refuse to give room and the faster guys are surprised when you're so slow in a particular section or find that it's easier to run through you than around you because chances are you're going to race them for the next corner and could crash them. people also try and suggest that this is just toy car racing or isn't serious racing, whatever that is, but the fact remains that racing is racing and if you don't show courteous and considerate behavior on the track then you won't get it in return. they have the blue/yellow move over flag in real car racing, and just because they don't use one in rc racing doesn't mean it shouldn't be headed.
I remember my days when I was new and slow, and even today because of a small field I've entered races even though I'm the only 2wd mod car in a 4wd mod class, so I know what it's like to be run down but I've always extended the courtesy and know it can be done. being oblivious of it, and not moving out of the way, you get what you deserve.


Dude...I really hope you read the rest of my posts on here.
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:36 AM   #77
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No, because they know they should wait until I pass to continue instead of just going 2 inches wide and just keep jamming on the throttle. I hit people who DON'T TRY AT ALL to make that happen.
You "hit" people who don't try to make this happen??????

Oh dear?!!!

This is the type of attitude which makes me think of giving up the sport/ hobby all together. just as others have done I've known.

This is the attitude that puts beginners and novices off racing........... this intimidation only leads to anger and frustrations on the track.

If you are that much better that you have gained a whole lap on the car your approaching, then it's you who should be patient. They are obviously not as good as you at getting around the track. So your chance will come soon enough!

A little more respect for fellow racers and their cars wouldn't go amiss. Everyone has the right to be on the track, anywhere on the track!! Just because some are faster then others does not entitle them to anything!!

Remember faster drivers.......... the slower drivers are more then likely doing all they can not to crash! Never mind restrict themselves to only a certain area of the track. You, the faster driver, have more of the skill involved, you make the decision on how to get around the slower driver. Unless the slower driver is another idiot with a bad driving attitude, they will not be "trying" to hit you.

Just because they are not doing what you want them to do does not entitle you to do anything to them or their car.

Regards,

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Old 08-04-2008, 06:58 AM   #78
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You "hit" people who don't try to make this happen??????

Oh dear?!!!

This is the type of attitude which makes me think of giving up the sport/ hobby all together. just as others have done I've known.

This is the attitude that puts beginners and novices off racing........... this intimidation only leads to anger and frustrations on the track.

If you are that much better that you have gained a whole lap on the car your approaching, then it's you who should be patient. They are obviously not as good as you at getting around the track. So your chance will come soon enough!

A little more respect for fellow racers and their cars wouldn't go amiss. Everyone has the right to be on the track, anywhere on the track!! Just because some are faster then others does not entitle them to anything!!

Remember faster drivers.......... the slower drivers are more then likely doing all they can not to crash! Never mind restrict themselves to only a certain area of the track. You, the faster driver, have more of the skill involved, you make the decision on how to get around the slower driver. Unless the slower driver is another idiot with a bad driving attitude, they will not be "trying" to hit you.

Just because they are not doing what you want them to do does not entitle you to do anything to them or their car.

Regards,

British Menace
This post is so well said.
+1 Slow drivers pay the same amount as a fast driver to race.
What next duct tape a slow "marshal" and lay him across the finish line so every one can bash into him at the end of the race.

There are higher priorities to being a sportsman than just getting out of the way.
We have all been slow.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:46 AM   #79
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This post is so well said.
+1 Slow drivers pay the same amount as a fast driver to race.
What next duct tape a slow "marshal" and lay him across the finish line so every one can bash into him at the end of the race.

There are higher priorities to being a sportsman than just getting out of the way.
We have all been slow.
+2 I have found that the people with the biggest attitudes are the home town heros. You know the ones Im talking about the guys that consistantly place top 5 at their home track and think they are god because they are good at "club racing". Put them in a big race and it can be quite humbling for them. The other ones that moan alot is the guys who run the intermediate or sportsman class and dont like dealing with the "slow" drivers yet they wont move up to pro because they wont win as much. I have a major problem with that group of people cause they have the option of moving out of the beginnner or slow crowd but instead they would rather sandbag to win.

Racing is racing and you should be considerate. If the fast guy laps me I dont drive like a maniac trying to race him into the next corner as he is obviously much faster. I also will not and do not block anyone by driving defensively.

Bottom line is be courteous and remember that while it is racing it is also a hobby. I am in a position where I could race a full size car but I dont cause I enjoy the camaraderie. Where I race there is excellent competition and they have some really good drivers. But when I look around the pits I see a few people quit doing it and only 1 or 2 people came to replace the 10 that quit. I also see no kids at my track. I think its sad for a hobby and a racetrack to see that happen and wonder how much of it has to do with poor sportsmanship.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:49 AM   #80
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+2 I have found that the people with the biggest attitudes are the home town heros. You know the ones Im talking about the guys that consistantly place top 5 at their home track and think they are god because they are good at "club racing". Put them in a big race and it can be quite humbling for them. The other ones that moan alot is the guys who run the intermediate or sportsman class and dont like dealing with the "slow" drivers yet they wont move up to pro because they wont win as much. I have a major problem with that group of people cause they have the option of moving out of the beginnner or slow crowd but instead they would rather sandbag to win.

Racing is racing and you should be considerate. If the fast guy laps me I dont drive like a maniac trying to race him into the next corner as he is obviously much faster. I also will not and do not block anyone by driving defensively.

Bottom line is be courteous and remember that while it is racing it is also a hobby. I am in a position where I could race a full size car but I dont cause I enjoy the camaraderie. Where I race there is excellent competition and they have some really good drivers. But when I look around the pits I see a few people quit doing it and only 1 or 2 people came to replace the 10 that quit. I also see no kids at my track. I think its sad for a hobby and a racetrack to see that happen and wonder how much of it has to do with poor sportsmanship.
Now Im gonnna twist around a quote from "revenge of the nerds".....

"I have news for all of the great, perfect driving rc drivers out there, there are alot more of us slow to average racers than there are of you"
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:05 AM   #81
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..Here's one..How about 30 minute nitro mains..A few weeks ago..Race starts..Top 2 get away clean, I get punted back to last (Qualified 3rd) I have to fight my way back through the pack (takes a while) first and second come up on me..I pull to the side and let the leaders go..3 to 4 turns I catch them..they are both fighting each other and leave the inside line open..I take it and pass them..cleanly..The race director starts telling me not to pass the leaders??? WTF..told me to do a stop and go....It's a 30 minute race..were about 7 or 8 minutes into it..so I do a stop and go..about 4 or 5 minutes I catch the leaders again..and the RD is telling me not to pass..I pass them anyways..cleanly..He wants me to do another stop and go..I told him no..I ended up getting second..first place won by half a lap..My thing was/is I'll pull out of the racing line to let the leaders by (If I'm a lap down) but if I reel you back in and pass you I wont pull over again..I wont take you out but you will now have to earn it..
You were obviously faster than those guys, the RD is an idiot..
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:17 AM   #82
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You "hit" people who don't try to make this happen??????

Oh dear?!!!

This is the type of attitude which makes me think of giving up the sport/ hobby all together. just as others have done I've known.

This is the attitude that puts beginners and novices off racing........... this intimidation only leads to anger and frustrations on the track.

If you are that much better that you have gained a whole lap on the car your approaching, then it's you who should be patient. They are obviously not as good as you at getting around the track. So your chance will come soon enough!

A little more respect for fellow racers and their cars wouldn't go amiss. Everyone has the right to be on the track, anywhere on the track!! Just because some are faster then others does not entitle them to anything!!

Remember faster drivers.......... the slower drivers are more then likely doing all they can not to crash! Never mind restrict themselves to only a certain area of the track. You, the faster driver, have more of the skill involved, you make the decision on how to get around the slower driver. Unless the slower driver is another idiot with a bad driving attitude, they will not be "trying" to hit you.

Just because they are not doing what you want them to do does not entitle you to do anything to them or their car.

Regards,

British Menace
Read my other posts. I always treat my fellow racers with respect first...if they are not willing to give it to me then I'm not willing to give it to them.

The "if you're faster you should find a way around them" simply doesn't work, the less experienced guy almost always crashes both people. It happens all the time. What's wrong with people and CLEAN racing anymore? I tried the waiting to pass thing for a long time, it DOESN'T work most of the time. You basically have to wait until they crash on their own or wait until they let you go.

Put it this way...ROAR, R/C Pro, etc. all have rules which basically say the say thing I'm saying...why do people still not follow it?
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:40 AM   #83
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Got to be honest and say a good few people seem to have the heads in the ground on this one.

I'm usually in with the fast crowd where I race. Honest opinion is I'm a good club/regional racer, But on the national level I'm no more than OK. With over 20yrs racing behind me now I've got fairly level headed.

I don't believe the fast guys just "take out" those that are being lapped at the first opertunity they get.

To think this seems pretty stupid to me, as in any accident the out come is uncertain. What I would expect from anyone I'm lapping, is in a resonable amount of time to allow me through without my having to risk an accident.

I dont believe the responce of "it's the faster guys job to find his way around when lapping" holds water to be honest. At many venue's although the track is a good width the racing line is very narrow, trying to pass whilst going off line CAN be very difficult and may well cost you dearly for trying.................

Where I usually race most people are happy if I can let them know where I think I can do it without holding them up, If your unable to speak Usually a gap is opened, they'll run wide or move off the racing line. In all case's they would TRY not to punt me off at the next corner whilst racing me again.

In return I feel its my duty to give them every chance to make room for me without me running them off the track. I won't try to pass unless I'm pretty sure there aware I'm making a move and in any case I'll wait a lap or so before trying harder to find a space. If the race for positon is very close at the front I may try to let back markers know were coming and ask for there co operation, It really depends on the situation. At a cub meeting I'll usually just wait for an accident if back markers are fighting for position. At a regional meeting I'd expect back markers to be more co operative...........

I believe everyone needs to remember this is racing BUT racing's susposed to be fun !!

The fast guys need to give the slower chaps a chance to move over

The slower guys need to remember there not racing with those people that our about to lap them

A little patience from everyone goes along way

A crash is going to cost each of you more time than waiting a corner or two

We were all learners once

One day if were lucky we'll expect the slower guys to move over too

Rod
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:53 AM   #84
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Read my other posts. I always treat my fellow racers with respect first...if they are not willing to give it to me then I'm not willing to give it to them.

The "if you're faster you should find a way around them" simply doesn't work, the less experienced guy almost always crashes both people. It happens all the time. What's wrong with people and CLEAN racing anymore? I tried the waiting to pass thing for a long time, it DOESN'T work most of the time. You basically have to wait until they crash on their own or wait until they let you go.

Put it this way...ROAR, R/C Pro, etc. all have rules which basically say the say thing I'm saying...why do people still not follow it?

In all respect. I'm not likely to look back to see if your that kind of person....... you said what you said because you thinks it's right. We all have to stand by what we put on here.

It may not always work. True. But........ just because there's rules saying something, does not mean the rules are right. Also, just because people are not pulling their car over for you to go through does not give you the right to push people and their cars around, or push them out of the way.

The slower driver may well be trying to keep out of your way..........on the other hand he may well be an idiot and trying to hold you up because he/she is jealous you are faster then they are or something. Either way. It does not give you the right to be ill mannered or drive without respect for others.

Just because others do something, that in your eyes (or in the view of many others) is wrong or unsportsman like. Does not give you, or any one else the right to do something "wrong" or unsportsman like back.

regards,
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:55 AM   #85
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Oh and by the way.
I'm not against people letting faster drivers through or the rule saying they have to.

What I am against is people who think they can enforce the rule themselves.

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Old 08-04-2008, 10:27 AM   #86
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Got to be honest and say a good few people seem to have the heads in the ground on this one.

I'm usually in with the fast crowd where I race. Honest opinion is I'm a good club/regional racer, But on the national level I'm no more than OK. With over 20yrs racing behind me now I've got fairly level headed.

I don't believe the fast guys just "take out" those that are being lapped at the first opertunity they get.

To think this seems pretty stupid to me, as in any accident the out come is uncertain. What I would expect from anyone I'm lapping, is in a resonable amount of time to allow me through without my having to risk an accident.

I dont believe the responce of "it's the faster guys job to find his way around when lapping" holds water to be honest. At many venue's although the track is a good width the racing line is very narrow, trying to pass whilst going off line CAN be very difficult and may well cost you dearly for trying.................

Where I usually race most people are happy if I can let them know where I think I can do it without holding them up, If your unable to speak Usually a gap is opened, they'll run wide or move off the racing line. In all case's they would TRY not to punt me off at the next corner whilst racing me again.

In return I feel its my duty to give them every chance to make room for me without me running them off the track. I won't try to pass unless I'm pretty sure there aware I'm making a move and in any case I'll wait a lap or so before trying harder to find a space. If the race for positon is very close at the front I may try to let back markers know were coming and ask for there co operation, It really depends on the situation. At a cub meeting I'll usually just wait for an accident if back markers are fighting for position. At a regional meeting I'd expect back markers to be more co operative...........

I believe everyone needs to remember this is racing BUT racing's susposed to be fun !!

The fast guys need to give the slower chaps a chance to move over

The slower guys need to remember there not racing with those people that our about to lap them

A little patience from everyone goes along way

A crash is going to cost each of you more time than waiting a corner or two

We were all learners once

One day if were lucky we'll expect the slower guys to move over too

Rod
Good points made Rod.

Well put.

The only reason I said that it's the good drivers job to get by is because they are the one who has to pass, they are the faster car. But like you said, a little consideration from both drivers is all thats needed.

For those not sure how to pull over for the faster drivers/cars. Watch a very high level A main race, if you get the chance. Not all have the skill to do it quite aswell as them, but the idea is there.

Regards,
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:27 AM   #87
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Like said previously, this is RACING, and racing is, well, of course, racing. They have the blue flag for a reason in racing, BUT, go to a dirt track race and watch people follow that flag. It's just letting them know that leaders are on them, and they should watch what they do.

If they are racing somebody else and receive this flag, do not, in any means, expect them to move over or stop THEIR side by side race, because it's not going to happen. I know this. Haha..

It's understandable if you are the only one running in your area and the leaders are battling or are coming around behind each other. Then you can race but race clean. Once somebody gets pushy and starts hitting others, expect the same back, because once again, it's RACING. Racing is definately an emotional sport, and when you're caught up in an adrenaline rush, and somebody just runs you over, expect words to be exchanged. :P
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:31 AM   #88
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In all respect. I'm not likely to look back to see if your that kind of person....... you said what you said because you thinks it's right. We all have to stand by what we put on here.

It may not always work. True. But........ just because there's rules saying something, does not mean the rules are right. Also, just because people are not pulling their car over for you to go through does not give you the right to push people and their cars around, or push them out of the way.

The slower driver may well be trying to keep out of your way..........on the other hand he may well be an idiot and trying to hold you up because he/she is jealous you are faster then they are or something. Either way. It does not give you the right to be ill mannered or drive without respect for others.

Just because others do something, that in your eyes (or in the view of many others) is wrong or unsportsman like. Does not give you, or any one else the right to do something "wrong" or unsportsman like back.

regards,
British Menace
I'm not saying I'm entitled to anything, stop interpreting it like that. I'm saying all drivers, sportsman, intermediate, expert, whatever skill level they are should give everybody the same respect they want to be treated with. That means if somebody in 14th is not willing to let the fast guys go, and will just hold up a three-way battle for the lead because the guy who's in 14th is still in the "race," then they've made their choice and I will make mine and treat them on the track the way they are treating me on the track.
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:53 AM   #89
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Perhaps the slow guy doesn't even know you're a fast guy coming up behind him.

Perhaps he's just trying to keep his car off the pipes.

Perhaps he's un-aware of the "rules" you speak of.

A slow driver not getting out of your way does not equal a lack of respect, but rather a lack of skill and experience. Neither of which should be held against him/her. However, you've already indicated that you're not going to take the time to figure that out, you'll just hack them to get by if they don't show you the "respect you deserve".
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Old 08-04-2008, 11:54 AM   #90
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If I can offer you my advice in my racing experience here it is... I have seen a lot of things and Merciless has many good points. Remember it's a hobby, however people also do take it seriously because you toss in the fact that this is a competition called racing. Many hobbies can become very serious for some.

Because of the racing aspect I would look to pro racing for your answer and pay attention to how drivers react and the result of their actions. Blue flag with the yellow stripe, the leader is on your back and you need to let them go by... Blue flag crossed with Black Flag you must let them by or you could get the black flag the next lap...

with that said there is no blue flag in RC, however if you observe how pro racing works you could get some tips there. When in a battle and/or going fast enough the flagman gives you a lap or so to work things out unless the leader is really on your tail and 2nd place is also closing on him. Usually within a lap or so the faster car will pass you anyway.

Here are a few things to consider...

First... there are so many situations it really depends on the one you are in, but I will lay out some of the top situations I have and what I do.
  • Are the people lapping you in a close battle for position?
  • Are these the last few moments of the race?
  • Are you in a battle for position yourself?
  • Is the person lapping you a lot faster then you?

There are more things to consider but I'd say these I listed are the top four that come to my mind when in a race.

First if I see someone closing really fast I just take a small line adjustment and let them by. If they are really fast they will slide by me pretty quick without you having to move much at all.

If I am in the final moments of the race and the 1st - around 8th place racers are in a heated battle and they are running down my rear I'd pull off as much as I can even if I am in a battle. Many times when I do this and the car I am fighting for position does not pull off they get taken out which usually works best for me anyhow. This is a common practice of sportsmanship as your not fighting for any top positions anyhow.

If I am only in the middle or beginning of the race and fighting for position and the leader is on my tail I keep it steady and clean. I stay patient and not make any aggressive moves until things shake out.

If I am in the middle of the race and the leader is coming up I hold my line for a lap and if they are still on my tail I pick a good spot on the track to move aside a bit. Usually the entrance to a straight.

Some things you should know as a person who comes up on traffic...
  • If the racer in front of me is really slow or unskilled passing is easy. I don't expect them to move out of the way.
  • If the racer in front of me keeps a decent pace I just tail them about 1/2 to 1 car length behind them until they make a mistake which usually happens in the next few turns. If the track is really tight and I can't get by after a lap or so and I know I am faster I will give them a little tap in the rear. If they are skilled enough they know to move over a bit, if not the tap sometimes spins them out.
  • If I am coming up an a 2-3 car battle I hang back about 4-6 car lengths’ and watch people wreck and drive though or wait till they fan out. No sense trying to go in there and get myself taken out.

If it's one thing I have learned all my years of racing... Patience is key. Much of what I see that goes on passing in the racing world apply to RC racing as well. I try to mimic this and I feel it has paid off very well for me.

That my two
-Don

Last edited by Don Duct; 08-04-2008 at 01:12 PM.
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