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Old 08-05-2008, 12:38 PM   #136
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To me the saying.."What goes around comes back around"..Is a statement that I race by..Most guys that have the attitude of I payed too are generally "new" or "forever novices" racers..
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:43 PM   #137
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If that's the way the leaders of that race would portray me, or anyone in that matter, after that, then let them. If they can't understand that's racing, then that's their deal. They'll have to live with a grudge. Yea I might have to as well, because they would probably take me out at the start, but that would just be stupid :P

It's "common sense" that you can't expect somebody racing FP to just get out of the way of the leaders. Their RACING, so be a racer and race around it all. That's how racing is, and always will be, whether anyone likes it or not.
David,

Your outta wack dude I believe thats why you can't get this. Racing etiquette in R/C is based on 1:1 racing. If your being lapped, let the fast guys though. It'll work out with your race F.P. VERY quick as the guys infront of you will have to let them though within a lap or two anyways, as I've said twice before I think LOSING THE SAME AMOUNT OF GROUND YOU DID.

In 1:1 if you don't mange it fast enough you'll get a black flag and be pulled from the race, If you want to see that kind of action in R/C just keep up what your doing......................

It's not discourtesous to expect traffic thats being lapped to move over, Its whats expected of a fellow RACER. ONE DAY you may be fast enough to be afforded the same respect.........

If you really don't think it's your place to do so, I think you could be better off with a monster truck bashing or something where there ain't any real racing, as you don't seem to be able to grasp the basic principles.

Sorry don't intend to offend anyone, but got bored and decieded on the direct easy responce

Rod
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:53 PM   #138
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i like that blueflag rule in f1, if they get blue flagged or told twice make the slower driver pit. stop and go (quite possibly take on fuel as well) that way everyone is still "doing something" and might allow more of a race feel to everyone (warn 3 times and within a lap then for the blocker to pit?)....
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:07 PM   #139
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Amazing..... Its no wonder this hobby isnt prospering. If I were new I wouldnt ever enter a race if the locals where I race have attitudes like this. I dont have a kid but I definately would not ever recommend a kid getting started racing with some of you.

Once I entered a big event at the Illinois State Series. That year they did not seperate intermediate and pro truggy. I was worried about it cause, like I said I am a Z-main type of driver. I walk up to the stand only to find out I get stuck running with a darn good jammin team driver. Just to make this even better, they dont do a resort till the mains so I getta race with him for all 3 heats. I did my best to let him go, stay out of his way etc. One time however I got a little loose in the corner and we bumped into each other. I appologized and the reply I got was..... Dont worry about it, You were running clean all day being courteous to faster traffic.

This is how it should have been handled but I was shocked when he was so understanding. I figured since he was SOOOO good he would have attitude towards a bottom finisher like me. To my suprise though he acted very friendly about it, and even thanked me for not trying to block him and trying my best to give him the best line.

Since I am not so good, I have heard all the piss and moans about my driving and oddly enough the best driver I have ever had a chance to be in the same heat was the coolest about it. From my opinion the people with the worst attitudes are the guys that think they are king of the world and in reality couldnt even hit the c main in a pro series event.

For those of you that are sooo content with hacking the new/slow guys here is some advice.

1)Move up a class, I cant move down so if you dont wanna run with me move up.
2)If where you race at they only run one class talk to the race director and tell them that some people suck sooo bad they should be seperated from you and the others that are such skilled drivers.
3)Check out autocross racing or drag racing. Neither of which requires you to have the skill to deal with the best or worst drivers. Instead you can just focus on yourself, which with your crappy attitude should be something you are used to doing anyways.
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:23 PM   #140
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Blue flag is just to enforce common courtesy.

In sportsman, you gotta deal with it... people that are inexperianced for sure aren't going to know if it's the leader running up behind them, and when getting out of the way when they do it still takes some precision and accidents will happen. If it is being done deliberately it's then down to race control how it is dealt with.

Qualifying should deal with putting those guys behind you if it is a big enough field, i suffered this weekend in Expert not from slow guys but fast non precise guys. Made the difference from 7th in first qualifyer and TQing the second. Problem was the one heat was the entire expert field and the A final, get caught in the first wreck and you have to pass those guys to get back to the front... it does make me wonder when in expert when fast guys don't realise how much faster they would be if they didn't wreck every lap.

My pet hate is that guy that wants to overtake you by going through you in the rough at a speed that would have put him off the track or going through you at a speed that would have pushed him wide in the end or wrecked him anyway. Many probably understand that one, mainly when you pass someone clean and they get a rush of blood to the head rather than trying to pick their spot to get there place back.

Personally i have made it a priority to race super clean from the start, still occasionally I accidently take someone out... a shout of sorry on the stand and if I am battling with him for position i will wait and take the consequence... or if it's a back marker i get going so i dont hassle him anymore and try and remember the car and apologise face to face after.

There is no need to deliberately block anyone obviously faster than yourself... any crash will lose you both time.

The tracks i like are the ones where race control watches the whole race and calls on deliberate bad driving and lets the inexperianced know the faster guys are coming through... that helps everyone including the bad driver in the long run.

Been some great points in this thread....
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Old 08-05-2008, 01:33 PM   #141
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If you really don't think it's your place to do so, I think you could be better off with a monster truck bashing or something where there ain't any real racing, as you don't seem to be able to grasp the basic principles.
........or try knitting, but then again grandma might ask you to move over on the couch
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:04 PM   #142
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Damn people, if you think someone isn't grasping principles try to help understand rather than damning... it would suck if in a years time we were racing with only ten people at a meeting...
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:26 PM   #143
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Damn people, if you think someone isn't grasping principles try to help understand rather than damning... it would suck if in a years time we were racing with only ten people at a meeting...
Been trying to understand , have spent the time to explain in length the reasoning behind the different view.

What some chaps also seem to be failing to grasp also is ,............ that the fast crowd have no trouble with novice / learner drivers. THEY sway all over the place , can't move over to let you past etc.etc. they dont have the ability yet and as such should be treated with respect and passed cautiously and obviously by the faster guys working out how to get around them....

Fast guys have trouble with those that know what there doing well enough to know the rules, can drive a line ok and simply think that there race is the most important thing happening ontrack.

There are usually at least a couple of battles on going within a finial. But at the end of the day it simple. If your being lapped move over let those lapping though, then continue with your battle for position. As soon as the fast crowd pass the guy you were battling with he'll be right back infront of you where he was a second ago.

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Old 08-05-2008, 03:08 PM   #144
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David,

Your outta wack dude I believe thats why you can't get this. Racing etiquette in R/C is based on 1:1 racing. If your being lapped, let the fast guys though. It'll work out with your race F.P. VERY quick as the guys infront of you will have to let them though within a lap or two anyways, as I've said twice before I think LOSING THE SAME AMOUNT OF GROUND YOU DID.

In 1:1 if you don't mange it fast enough you'll get a black flag and be pulled from the race, If you want to see that kind of action in R/C just keep up what your doing......................

It's not discourtesous to expect traffic thats being lapped to move over, Its whats expected of a fellow RACER. ONE DAY you may be fast enough to be afforded the same respect.........

If you really don't think it's your place to do so, I think you could be better off with a monster truck bashing or something where there ain't any real racing, as you don't seem to be able to grasp the basic principles.

Sorry don't intend to offend anyone, but got bored and decieded on the direct easy responce

Rod
I love you how you assume.

I LOVE the way you think I am one of these slow drivers always getting lapped. I definately used to be, and so were you. We all started somewhere. I'm talking about everyone here. But, just like everyone, I've gotten better, being able to contend, all the time. But that is NOT what I'm talking about. I am not talking about ME always getting lapped and not getting out of the way.

In general, in 1:1 racing, you are completely wrong. In short track racing, you best not race in, because you would not make it. Trying to get out of the way as you say should be done will cause a major problem with traffic.

All that are bringing the major sanctions of F1, NASCAR, etc.. you can't, because it's completely different. More race fans enjoy the short track series, whether it be dirt or asphalt, and would enjoy seeing a battle for ANY position. If you disagree, then you haven't been a race fan for long, if at all.

You also can't seem to grasp the fact that I have broken it into 2 scenarios. Lapped cars that are racing for position, and Lapped cars racing all by their lonesome, not contending for a position. I have agreed with most by saying that when you get a leader behind you, to move over, let him go, and race behind him. Don't hold him up, and everyone will be happy, especially if the battle for the lead is heating up, whether it be the beginning, middle, or end of a race.

BUT, the other scenario, don't expect lapped traffic to stop doing what they paid and love/like to do, which is RACE! When I lead and come upon a fun looking battle, I don't expect them, nor would any other sane racer, to get out of the way, just because the leader is behind. If the leader is battling for the lead with 2nd, or more places, then they will have their race, but of course be smart and not pass the lapped cars until openings pop up. It's how racing will, and always will be on short track 1:1 racing, and R/C racing around. Why would the fans keep coming back if lapped cars just stopped racing and let, for example, the leader go by, and then one of them mess up and there is no fun battle for the spectators to watch..

You can drop the scenario of lapped traffic racing by themselves and leaders coming up. We all agree that you should move over, which mostly everyone does. If the lapped car blocks, then all bets are off and any emotions, if at all, that are had, will be dealt with after the race.

I'm on the lapped traffic racing FP scenario, and leaders racing coming up on them.

I would like to hear more of what everyone here has to say about this scenario.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:51 PM   #145
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Been trying to understand , have spent the time to explain in length the reasoning behind the different view.


Rod
Was taking a crack at the smart arse above my comment and people just being plain rude... and you are dead right it takes a little learning. It's racecraft for both the fast guys and the back markers...

And David... you have the nail on the head there i think. Leader comes up on a battle, it's his problem and he will need his skills and either time it right or have a little patience to pick a moment... the guy with space around him being lapped should be making it right for a smooth clean pass. It's just wether he is good enough at that point, if he is not but has the right intention i don't see a reason to bitch - and anyone that suffers that a lot should probably moving it up a class.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:58 PM   #146
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David, lolz now your getting funny dude...........

I'm sorry, But I started attending 1:1 race meeting in the late 80's. I was VERY fortunate that my farther loved F1 and my uncle was part of one of the UK Touring car series teams so I got to go to Silverstone,Brands hatch and Donington to see the races.

I've also been to GP Bike races, Super bike and World Super bike rounds in more recent years.............

My guess is the short track series your interested in is run somewhat differently if it's acceptable for someone being lapped to knowly hold up the front runners. Myself as someone that likes to go see events that are held on the WORLD STAGE the idea seems very alien and plain wrong.

Whilst I was talking to you David its was from a fourth person perspective, so not about you.......... I didn't assume you were a back marker type driver although it WOULD make sense.

I do not expect drivers not to race, simply respect where they are within that race. What you don't seem to be able to grasp is how YOU lose time holding people up. YOU being any back marker holding up the front runners (not actually you).

Holding up the front runners also ensures you put yourself in the best possible position to get punted off when a pass goes wrong. So good deal nice thinking........... AS the front runner if held up long enough will eventually get fed up waiting and make a move, But being an experienced driver will do it in such a way that they're unlikely to come off worst.

Got fed up with this now, If anyone can't workout the RIGHT thing to do if being lapped, I believe racing ain't for you.

Rod
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:10 PM   #147
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David, lolz now your getting funny dude...........

I'm sorry, But I started attending 1:1 race meeting in the late 80's. I was VERY fortunate that my farther loved F1 and my uncle was part of one of the UK Touring car series teams so I got to go to Silverstone,Brands hatch and Donington to see the races.

I've also been to GP Bike races, Super bike and World Super bike rounds in more recent years.............

My guess is the short track series your interested in is run somewhat differently if it's acceptable for someone being lapped to knowly hold up the front runners. Myself as someone that likes to go see events that are held on the WORLD STAGE the idea seems very alien and plain wrong.

Whilst I was talking to you David its was from a fourth person perspective, so not about you.......... I didn't assume you were a back marker type driver although it WOULD make sense.

I do not expect drivers not to race, simply respect where they are within that race. What you don't seem to be able to grasp is how YOU lose time holding people up. YOU being any back marker holding up the front runners (not actually you).

Holding up the front runners also ensures you put yourself in the best possible position to get punted off when a pass goes wrong. So good deal nice thinking........... AS the front runner if held up long enough will eventually get fed up waiting and make a move, But being an experienced driver will do it in such a way that they're unlikely to come off worst.

Got fed up with this now, If anyone can't workout the RIGHT thing to do if being lapped, I believe racing ain't for you.

Rod
Let's drop the majore sanctions of F1, NASCAR, and all those, because in F1, the racing is so spread out, and NASCAR there are a gazillion scenarios, just like any other racing sanction out there.

Local short track racing is a prime example, along with CORR and such, that can be shown in R/C Racing. I am interested in more than just 1 short track series, some being IMCA sanctioned to Late Model, World of Outlaw racing, to 100s of others.

When you are racing somebody else, and the leaders are right behind you, you aren't intentionally holding anyone up as you just stated, you are racing. The leaders will do their thing to get around. I will, nor shall any other racer, never, ever expect someone, whether it be local club racing, or the Nitro Challenge @ the Nitro Pit, to pull off or slow down if they are racing for position and I am right behind them, and I would know that the other racers think the same way, at least in every area of racing I've been to, and that's all over this country.

We are racing, not playing around. We as racers don't spend thousands of dollars to just let people by when racing for position, being leaders or not. Like I said a gazillion times though, I DO AGREE with you that someone racing by themselves should get out of the way, that makes complete sense.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:25 PM   #148
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Why drop F1 as a role model for how these things should be driven, or what respect between racers should look like ???

You keep coming back to cost per race , paying to race etc. F1 is the most expensive car racing there is and millions for $$ stand to be won or lost for every championship point. YET they move over when being lapped regardless of wether there in a battle for positon or on the own!!!! It's not a convenience thing.............

I know this does fit in well with the scenario's your putting together, BUT facts are facts.

In the most prestigous 1:1 racing in the world, with millions of dollars at stake per position in the race. THAT is how they do it.

Rod
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:27 PM   #149
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Correct, but look how spread out it is. It's just one car being put that lap down.
When one is passing, they pass and leave the other car trailing them. It's all line-racing. That is understandable, like I've said a billion times, that if you are racing in line and 'by yourself' to get out of the way.

And yes, it is the most expensive, but also it's loosing fans for reasons to NASCAR and other sanctions.

But, local short track racing will always be the premier style of racing, because more skillful drivers and that's where everyone gets their start
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:29 PM   #150
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Hey David Day and Merciless, I going to put myself in the middle of this because I think you guys are somewhat on the same page except for one scenario.

I see David Day talk about the leader coming up on a group of cars in a battle for position.

Merciless, I have to side with what David is trying to say about this situation.

As a leader it's stupid to expect the 2+ cars in front of you to stop racing and move aside. They are in a battle for position.

As a leader you hold your line until things work out. If you don't you can find yourself in a mess or even a wreck. From my experience the leader who waits until things shake out is much better off then charging in to the battle. They don't last very long so it's best to wait. I've see pro racing situations where a leader is not patient and ends up wrecking with a back marker. This happens in every form or racing.

As the drivers in battle you have to pay attention to working out your battle then holding your line to see what the leader behind plans to do.

This results in clean racing and proper racing etiquette.

Common thing I see is absolutely if your solo just move off your line a bit and let the leader by. Which I think both of you agree.


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