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Old 07-30-2008, 09:42 AM   #31
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I believe that the racing aspect of this "hobby" is becoming more of a "sport", how can you still call it a hobby when you have sponsered guys that make huge amounts of $ racing toy cars? The racing aspect at that point becomes a sport.

On the other hand bashers are still buying MT's at an astonishing rate, regardless of fuel and tire prices, because they just dont care, they dont use that stuff up the way us "racers" do.

I feel that the prices in this hobby have not gone up, with the exception of nitro fuel, but it has not gone up enough for most people to say screw this I am done. The problem is that the cost in everything else non-rc related has gone up, the fuel we burn in our cars to get to the track, electricity bills and not to mention 100 other things that are all much more expensive than they were say 4 years ago are leaving us all much lighter in the wallets.

After being that much lighter in the wallet, people start wondering what they can cut back on to continue to live the lifestyle in which they once had, and the first thing to usually get the cut is there hobbies. That is why you are seeing decreased attendence at your local tracks, and why people are complaining about this "price gouging". No one is price gouging anyone, its just the simple fact of when it used to cost you $45 dollars to shoe your 1/8th buggy it was no big deal. Today it still cost about $45 to shoe that same buggy, but when you factor in that you had to put $100 in gas in your 1:1 scale truck to get to the track it all just seems to expensive.

I dont believe 1/8th scale buggy is going anywhere, it will continue to be one of if not the most popular form of racing for a long while, I feel truggy is going to stick around as well just not as popular as the buggy guys.

As far as Nitro Vs. Electric, nitro is one of them things once you figure out how to tune them and work on them you have caught the virus and electric doesnt cut it for you. Even before brushless came along you mod guys were constantly tweaking springs and brushes and making what seemed like an "easy" electric RC car a pain in the ass. Yeah nitro can cause you to pull your hair out at times, especially when you accidently smoke a $300+ motor.

But then again you are always gonna have the electric guys that believe an on off swith on the throttle trigger is smoother than a motor coming up into its powerband, and with bruhsless and lipo it is so much easier (and probably cheaper) than in the past.

To each his own, there will always be intrest in one or the other and in some guys cases both.

For me it will always be nitro, women play with electric toys lol.
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Old 07-30-2008, 10:31 AM   #32
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Well, based on my experiences, I see the future of RC moving away from traditional 1/10 scale sized vehicles like a T4 or B4 for outdoor tracks, and move towards 1/8 scale electric based vehicles or similar sized ones (like the slash) because of there scale looks.

The whole 1/10 scale thing I believe is based on the fact that a lot of tracks now cater to a 1/8 scale set, and this just does not lend itself keeping the 1/10 scale vehicles in one piece other than driving over jumps which gets old really quick. I can see them however for indoors doing well, as you only have some much space then.

As for my belief in 1/8 scale offroad electric vehicles, I use my experiences and the comments I have been hearing from racers. For me, I liked pretty much everything about my first real 1/8 scale buggy, other than the nitro specific components. Regardless of what anyone says, even when you get to be an excellent tuner, I still have seen those very guys have issues with there engines that can be stumpers till they go through there routine of process elimination. If they have to do that and can be stumped, a regular guy without that assistance from them is pretty much lost at times.

That was me for awhile. I researched for some time on the engine to go with that was reliable for a beginner, tips on what to do, etc. And when it came time, the car would fire good when practicing, but then it was a no go for racing. Then you have the little things like clutch springs, shoes, fuel line issues, tanks, etc. that creep up at the worst time.

It got the point I was basically about done with RC since that is the pretty much the main classes out there are 1/8. but when I saw the conversions for the first time, that got me back in.

After owning my first MBX5 conversion, I was hooked. Simple plug and go. If i plug and it don't go, it pretty easy to determine where the issue is. With lipo, no more having to carry a warchest of NIMHs (for electric 1/10s) or a fuel bottle, starter box, etc. Just 1 battery was all I needed to use for the 3 5 minute qualifiers and a 20 minute main. Works out to even less batteries than a nitro 1/8 scale buggy requires (starter box, receiver pack..)

Handling was right on, and the power of a brushless setup is amazing.

Costs are pretty comparable too for starting out with a conversion as well:

http://www.tony1034.com/ts/EMBX5R/Ni...MBX5R_cost.htm

People will say you need the 250 neu motor, that isn't true anymore. There is a viable option in the medusa 2000Kv motor 60mm V2 version. and its only $120 if you add the heatshink. Or, soon get the Castle Creations MMM with motor combo for about $270 or use the Novak HV pro if thats your thing. compared to the cost of a racing nitro engine, you are very comparable.

And now with Caster racing bringing out a buggy that is electric from the ground up, you remove the conversion cost.

Electric has the chance to be cheaper than nitro upfront.

Do I think nitro will be around in the future, sure. There are people who will continue to run them for a long time. Sort of like a lot of MT guys who still run them in a field full of truggies. But, there are also a lot of guys who will convert once they see some off the shelf kits available. And when a RTR version is finally made, WATCH OUT.

A lot of the comments from guys who have run my brushless vehicles and are really hardcore nitro racers like the fact that you get all the scale benefits, and eliminate the main hassle, the nitro engine.
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Old 07-30-2008, 12:16 PM   #33
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In my opinion this hobby is really addictive...I started on monster truck to on-road but now Im only running buggy and truggy...I look behind and I realize
that Im turning my money into small little car that keep circling around and didnt go nowhere but its fun though....talking about racing....its seems like the monster truck are declining same as the on-road....but talking about nitro prices
even some hobby shop are waaaaay overpricing!!!:: I started to think to convert my ride into brushless....or maybe turn my back on this hobby.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:11 PM   #34
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I think the hobby will continue to grow and that growth is going to come from 1/8 scale vehicles and brushless/lipo technology. The hobby is going to become more mainstream. I don't ever see it being on ESPN as it isn't spectator friendly, but brushless technology is attracting more casual users to the hobby who wouldn't have given it the time of day if nitro were the only thing available.

Just as Cain mentioned, I pretty much had forgotten about RC cars over the past 20 years until I came across a Traxxas VXL by accident last year and discovered that I could have an electric car that exceed nitro performance without the headache of nitro. I was immediately hooked. I since sold the VXL and now have a full on brushless RC8 that I race and will be doing a truggy soon.

Ironically, I have come across a ton of other guys just like me who want to race cars, like wrenching on them, but owning a nitro in a quiet subdivision just won't cut it. Now they can have the best of both worlds. I got my RC8 to 70 mph the other day and didn't disturb the neighbors. What more can you ask for?

The scale and realism of 1/8 is appealing as they dont seem as toy like as 1/10th. Add brushless to the mix and now you will start seeing tracks and facilities opening up in more populated areas which will ultimately attract new participants since more people will know about the hobby.. I am already thinking about trying to open a track since there are none near me. All the nitro stuff where I am is out the freaking sticks due to the noise pollution. It cost me $30 bucks in gas just to drive to my local track right now.

When I drive my car at a local park, people are so fascinated by it and want to know where they can get one. Imagine how many people would try this hobby if we could get tracks in mall parking lots or places where people woudl actually see the track? My local track is out in the middle of a freaking cornfield. Gorgeous faciliity but no one goes there unless you know it is an RC track or you are looking to bury a dead body.

I know some people are die hard nitro fans due to the sound as it just seems more realistic, but nitro is why the hobby is stuck in a rut. It isnt appealing for mainstream enthusiast.
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:51 PM   #35
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lazy fat kids and adults who want RTR and want to play NOW.

then dont know how to fix it.

Shame. RTR killed the hobby IMO.

Oh Boy 50 of the same style trucks with different paint jobs.

Thank god for the crawler guys, keeping hobby creative.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:16 AM   #36
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Disagree totally about RTR. All that money rolling in is hard to argue with.. You and I might not like RTR kits(I don't have such a big problem with them actually..), but if anything they are exactly the reason RC is as big as it is.. I actually think racing is what reduces the overall interest in RC. Five years ago bashing MT's was where it was at, and it seems to me that created a LOT of interest and got LOTS of people to step into the hobby. 1/8 buggy racing was off to the side in a corner closet in comparison.. Videos from the likes of slapmafro and co. generated a lot of enthusiasm(and whole websites..), got people into the hobby(with RTR's..), and many of those who stuck in it are now racing.. But racing is a different thing.. It's far more sober than bashing.. The bashing heyday is over though, and now it's all about drilling your shock pistons, changing all your diff and shock oils between every heat, etc.. Nothing against serious racers. That's just not something you want to set to heavy metal music..

I don't think brushless 1/8 will ever be all that popular. I suspect the vast majority of people in it are people who converted over from nitro - i.e. people already in the hobby. I personally despise brushless - no offense to anyone - I just find it incredibly boring. And that's almost all down to the lack of noise and screaming high RPM's like you have with nitro..

And as mentioned before, if 1/8 nitro buggy racing never makes it to ESPN because it's not spectator friendly, then brushless really never will. I think the exhileration factor of nitro is far higher - whether for many people like me already in the hobby, or for some kid seeing his first buggy race at the local track, with all the smoke and screaming nitro engine chaos.. The alternative? A bunch of silent cars driving around a track? All the atmosphere of a library IMO.. How's that gonna' get more people into it?..

Maybe if a top-end brushless setup costs half of what it does now and requires half the know-how.. Even then.. "Oh, isn't that neat.." And off they go to do something else.. Not the salivating wide-eyed kids asking "what's it cost what's it cost??!!" bugging their parents to get them one..

At the same time, nitro - like gas for your real car(or anything else to do with fossil fuels..) - is never gonna get cheaper, so that's a problem.. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say the long-term trend will be a decline in 1/8 nitro - and that means 1/8 altogether - because there will never be enough interest in 1/8 electric*..(just my opinion..), and more a shift to 1/10 electric..

* Not trying to start an argument. It's just unfathomable to me that large numbers of people will ever get the bug and go invest large amounts of money in silent RC's - however fast they are.. Maybe I'm wrong and see things too subjectively.. But when the cost of nitro crosses a certain threshhold, I'm out..
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:51 AM   #37
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[QUOTE=Herrsavage;9215018] or for some kid seeing his first buggy race at the local track, with all the smoke and screaming nitro engine chaos.. The alternative? A bunch of silent cars driving around a track? All the atmosphere of a library IMO.. How's that gonna' get more people into it?..
I totally agree at this point i can remember when I was a kid and saw my dad racing his Kyosho Inferno and i was Addicted to the Hobby right away Then yesterday i saw a kid watching a 1/10 electric race and he was almost sleeping in his chair XD
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:27 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by daign View Post
lazy fat kids and adults who want RTR and want to play NOW.

then dont know how to fix it.

Shame. RTR killed the hobby IMO.

Oh Boy 50 of the same style trucks with different paint jobs.

Thank god for the crawler guys, keeping hobby creative.
That is just crazy. RTR I'm sure has brought a bunch of new people into the hobby. Not everyone lives by a major track with pro drivers there who can teach you how to build a car. I learned alot from my RTR by only having to fix one problem at a time, instead of having to build an entire car from scratch. I would have never gotten into the hobby if it would have cost me 1500$ to just get started, and I would have had no idea of how to properly put the buggy together.
Nobody who races keeps going out an buying RTR cars. You buy the first one to get yourself going, you upgrade servos, engines, and radio as you break the first car, and by the time it's worn out, you can buy a kit with confidence on how to properly build it, and you already have the bulk of good electronics and such bought.

Just because you started the hobby when people had to build everything, doesn't mean that everyone should have to still make their own parts, or spend countless hours trying to put their first car together, when they have no idea what they are doing. Not everyone had friends in the hobby already, so these RTRs are the only option for someone who has nobody to guide them along the way.
People use to have to grow and kill all their own food too, but you don't hear many people complaining about the grocery store carrying meat, and canned vegetables, and then calling you fat and lazy for going there. And I'm sure the few people that do complain about it, you would call an idiot.
And by the way, I am kind of fat and lazy.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:43 AM   #39
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If your talking about he RC hobby as a whole. With out the introduction of race quality RTRs alot of tracks would have closed, the racing scene would be way smaller.

RTRs have brought ALOT more people into this hobby in one year than kit building over the last 5 years. Look at the Short Course. Traxxax single handedly boosted the racing seen, first with Monster Trucks and now SC. My LHS sell RTR 5 to 1 over build it your self kits. SC have taken this hobby by storm and has helped promote the expansion of 1/8 racing. The future of RC (I hate to say it) is electric power. With the rising cost of fuel, it is pushing alot of people to EP.
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Old 06-06-2011, 08:07 AM   #40
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Holy 3 year old post dig up batman !
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:12 AM   #41
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I pulled my first rc car remote trigger in 1982 on a tamiya grasshopper,I was 9. This year My son and I started the hobby together(he is 14). I spent 5 grand trying reoutfiting my life long colection of outdated toy cars close to 15 cars on/offroad, the most recent purchase was a mugen super Athlete. to say the least many toy cars in my colection are now just models with movable parts,leaving me 4.5 grand for for all new chargers(since ni-cd is no longer the only choice) and 6 new cars.merv,Losi1/16 sct,2T4.1 BL.2wdSlash,Mbx6,8T2.0. several new radios.and as many bells and whistles we could find that we felt were needed... 3000. The last 1500 was for track items related to what racers need to be at a track for 4-6 days.Generator,canapoy,cleaning supplies ect,ect.
Short story long the grasshopper my mommy got for me cost the same today as it did in 82 and it now has updated tech on it. Roar has a stock price cost limit for item that racer use in the car for that class, keeping the price to race as low as aceptable. If I race outside this class it is my choice to spend the money to keep up with the rest in the mod class, and we will pay out the nose to do so. I had allways planned on returning to the hobby after my children were born, no I did not think it would take 12 years to return but I came back to a new and wonderful world of brushless/lipo and SCT. I brought new faces into the hobby(my wife and kids) as most of us parents that still participate in the R/C car hobby have done or hope to do.
We play with both nitro and electric cars. we haul more stuff to all electric races than we do to just nitro race, cost to race very close one another. In the Northwest the grassroots rc movment is very strong at the track, however like most places their are not many 1/8 nitro tracks that are close to where people live within reason to drive and still not be a noise concern. Indoor their are plenty of tracks to goto and make electric racing affordable to hanlde.
For Team G Racing it is not the consumer, or the outright cost of getting into the hobby, or the LHS that is putting a damper on the sport and hobby.
It lies with the lack of quality places in which to enjoy the hobby with other people. Lots of track open and close within the first 2 years. Their are many reasons for this. However we still want to play with our toys and those that make the toys really want us to buy them.......
We need more companies to invest in owning and managing tracks for their consumers to have a venue in which to play. It would be easy for the big 10 hobby car manufacturors to place 1 or 2 very nice race facility's in each state where they see the sales would support it. then create lots of smaller rc car parks that could hold local races, but not have the grand stature of the 1 or 2 top knotch tracks. Yes their is red tepe to deal with in my vision, but we as the common man have far less resorces and tools and money to find land deal with permits codes ect,ect.
The hobby/sport of R/C cars is alive but it is hurting do to the lack of place where we can go and be free to enjoy the cars we have and the new ones on the way. it does not mater the scale you drive if you have no good place to go and noone to share or showoff with then you are still playing by yourself and that may get 1 car sold but 1 car does not an enthuesist make.
The competive market for the industry would blow up if manufacturs had company run or partnerships with tracks to allow tracks to be more affordable to run and maintain and manpower (drivers) to help keep the intrest growing.
For me back in the day if a hobby shop did not have a track it most have sold a lot of plains and trains. now a hobby shop can not afford a track or relocate to the sticks to be close to the track where the money is when parts are broken.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:35 AM   #42
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Most people in RC do not like racing. Racing is such a small part of RC as a whole. The numbers just dont add up. Plus if Companies get involved, it will be more expensive to race. You know how much insurance they would need to carry? For them, its just lost revenue. This is an expensive hobby and thats what keep people away from racing.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:49 AM   #43
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That is just crazy. RTR I'm sure has brought a bunch of new people into the hobby. Not everyone lives by a major track with pro drivers there who can teach you how to build a car. I learned alot from my RTR by only having to fix one problem at a time, instead of having to build an entire car from scratch. I would have never gotten into the hobby if it would have cost me 1500$ to just get started, and I would have had no idea of how to properly put the buggy together.
Nobody who races keeps going out an buying RTR cars. You buy the first one to get yourself going, you upgrade servos, engines, and radio as you break the first car, and by the time it's worn out, you can buy a kit with confidence on how to properly build it, and you already have the bulk of good electronics and such bought.

Just because you started the hobby when people had to build everything, doesn't mean that everyone should have to still make their own parts, or spend countless hours trying to put their first car together, when they have no idea what they are doing. Not everyone had friends in the hobby already, so these RTRs are the only option for someone who has nobody to guide them along the way.
People use to have to grow and kill all their own food too, but you don't hear many people complaining about the grocery store carrying meat, and canned vegetables, and then calling you fat and lazy for going there. And I'm sure the few people that do complain about it, you would call an idiot.
And by the way, I am kind of fat and lazy.
I didn't even mention the racing aspect because i'm not going to drive 45 minutes to stand next to a bunch of 12 year olds who couldn't figure out how to solder a 3.5 motor plug. AND I'm in downtown LA a huge metropolis. Thats how dead RC racing is. When nothing was RTR we had maybe 6 tracks local in southern california. Now you have to drive almost an hour to the 2.

Back in the day a kid would get into the hobby with a frog or a hornet. A Tamiya, simple to build, A CHILD CAN BUILD. I built mine in 2 days when I was 12. The excitement of seeing your project come to life is what it was all about. I went to Ascot and it broke, I knew what broke because I built it.

Now its all about idiots that want to be ken block and will pay $150 extra for a special body and some green wheels. Most people didn't have anyone in the hobby they knew, there was a local hobby shop and you went and dreamt about the clodbuster and USA1. I've never raced. Found it boring. Always bashed. Both with friends and solo.

With the exception of Custom Rails and Wild custom projects I'm bored with cars and trucks. I'm only interested in scale stuff now.


I build kits for you lazy people to buy on ebay, and pay you do. Its amazing. I've sold 4 $700 crawlers because people are so lazy.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:52 AM   #44
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If your talking about he RC hobby as a whole. With out the introduction of race quality RTRs alot of tracks would have closed, the racing scene would be way smaller.

RTRs have brought ALOT more people into this hobby in one year than kit building over the last 5 years. Look at the Short Course. Traxxax single handedly boosted the racing seen, first with Monster Trucks and now SC. My LHS sell RTR 5 to 1 over build it your self kits. SC have taken this hobby by storm and has helped promote the expansion of 1/8 racing. The future of RC (I hate to say it) is electric power. With the rising cost of fuel, it is pushing alot of people to EP.
I will agree its the only thing keeping RC racing alive. It was small back in the 80s and its even smaller now. I'll give traxxas that, but its RTR philosophy spread like wild fire. THAT sucks.

Companies should offer kits still. Like HPI, its insanity that they dont. Tamiya continues to rake in the cash with rereleases of the Sand Scorcher.

There are many of us that dont give a crap about Racing or RTR.
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:57 AM   #45
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Are you talking about Los Angeles? Dont a good number of pros like out that way?
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