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Old 07-29-2008, 03:59 PM   #31
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For club racing I welcome pro drivers to join intermediate class. I personally feel by having pro/expert drivers in intermediate class helps the intermediate drivers learn to become a better driver.

This is my opinion… club races should not be about winning or losing races. Club races should be about improving your driving skills and working to become a better driver. A training ground for sanctioned and bigger events if you will.

Now for sanctioned events like ROAR should identify your skill based on your registration as a, novice, intermediate, and expert, and restrict entry accordingly.

So… why worry about winning a simple club race. You should grasp the opportunity and learn from the experiences. You know in your mind if you place right behind a pro driver that your next step is to beat them.

Out at the Nitro Pit where I race we get some popular pro drivers… I think this is a fantastic opportunity for me to follow and learn from them. If I can manage to keep up that would be very gratifying to me.

That’s my two

oh and who cares what other people do... you should know where you are and that's all that matters. So... I recomend you ignore sandbaggers or whatever you want to label them as. This mind set will get you far.


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Old 07-29-2008, 05:05 PM   #32
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Hmmm... I understand your point... however, at a "big" race, practice time on that track is very limited. It takes me a while to learn a track, be able to drive a reasonable line. I'm also one of those folks that starts every heat with his knees shaking from adrenaline. lol In other words, I drive better toward the end of the main...

As I've stated before on a similar thread... it almost isn't worth it to pay $45 or whatever to go drive at a "big" event and only get to run 7-8 minutes. (I was pretty happy to get 10 at the OKC event- at least I got to pit... part of racing, right?) Unfortunately if everyone in the lower mains thought that... there wouldn't be any "big" events. We're paying for the faster folks to play... Should there be a difference? Sure... should it be 5 minutes vs. 45? Not in my opinion.

I think 10 minutes is approaching reasonable... I'd like to see 15, but it is what it is. I'm a lot more likely to go to a race where I know I'm going to get a longer run time in the main. Don't get me wrong... I like hanging out at the track, bs-ing with folks... I'm always happy to help folks out, be it "I broke a _____ do you have one?" (hmmm... let me look in my toolbox) or "can you pit me?" (I enjoy pitting almost as much as racing... and unlike racing, I'm actually fast!)

I also like the races where they "re-sort" the heats... I'd rather run against other folks at my skill level. I don't mind running with the faster guys, but feel bad if I'm in the way. I don't want to be the one that costs someone the TQ spot, or keeps them from making the A-main.

In short... it's a hobby. I do this for fun and relaxation. I don't take it TOO seriously, although I have that same competitive urge that the rest do. I'm playing with a toy car... I just want to play with it more.
I hear what you're saying and understand where you're coming from, but the problem is that though 10 minutes might be your suggestion someone else is always going to come up with something else and pretty soon you're back to those that want their 45 because that's what the pros run and pretty soon you can figure out that it could take 10 hours to run a single round. And thus they had to come up with "something" - as well as considering bump-ups - and 7 minutes or whatever was come up with as reasonable.

As far as finding some sort of rythm, I'd suggest you take up electric to learn yourself to get with the flow faster.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:48 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by rocket-mtrsprts View Post
As far as finding some sort of rythm, I'd suggest you take up electric to learn yourself to get with the flow faster.
+1
You will find that most expert drivers also do electric. I feel that it has givin me an edge in nitro.
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:05 PM   #34
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it seems that i gain alot more speed in electric by running lots of nitro.. i run way more nitro than electric but still try to find time to break out the b4
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:40 PM   #35
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I personally would prefer to enter in a class thats under thr intermediates, I would not be ashamed to race that class. But I guess that would be a Monster truck class, eh. Just joking.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:28 PM   #36
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it seems that i gain alot more speed in electric by running lots of nitro.. i run way more nitro than electric but still try to find time to break out the b4
I'm the other way. Nitro hurts my electric racing, but electric helps my nitro driving.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:16 PM   #37
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I race here in AZ at a few tracks but my local track has about 6 guys that are sponsered and we race all together and they are making me a better driver i do get out of their way when they come bye me but for that brief moment i try to follow their line and it has been helping me alot my lap times are getting better al the time and they tell me that i am getting better every week we race and they help me out on set ups sometimes and i am having fun this sport is so AWSOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:06 PM   #38
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I guess at club racing you have to rely on the spirit, you are going to get the occasional sandbagger. Saying that, race runners will spot someone winning with a big lead after a few weeks and up them into expert.
Personally i am going to go sportsman one more time so i can compete with my friend then i am going to expert sheerly to avoid the hacking and run with the real fast guys and LEARN, i not confident i will be competing for top place straight off but i am fairly quick and very clean so time to up the game.

In the UK there isn't generally a seperation at club level i have seen, qualifying will often have a heat with the known faster guys and you can often grade yourself between 1 - 10 so you have a good chance of being put in a suitable heat at your level rather than slow down the fast guys and/or get trounced in your heats by them.
If you make the A's you will be running with the pro's that turn up...

Not saying one way is better than the other, i have no preference.
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:59 PM   #39
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TQ AND WIN SAME NIGHT AT LEAST THREE RACES THEN BUMP TO NEXT CLASS
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Old 07-30-2008, 05:45 AM   #40
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Having watched this thread for a while, and thought about it, it suddenly occurred to me that the whole concept of jumpiing up in classification is a new idea - or that the whole sportsman or intermediate class(s) is a new thing - that somehow popped up within the last 15 years or so because prior to that there never was such a thing.
Prior to that it was understood and accepted practice that when things shook out over the course of a raceday or weekend that the so-called expert or pro (or just plain talented) drivers would populate the A- and B-mains, some of the lesser talented would make up the C- and D-mains, and so on. And this worked just fine for many many years.
So what happened in racing and society that forced the change in thinking and mentality? Maybe this whole gig in which people were allowed to sign up under "other" classifications came about in our seemingly growing obsession with giving every kid in Little League or soccer getting a trophy of some sort regardless of how good or bad they or their team performed that seemingly grew out of the special olympics and letting each kid know they were a winner.
I don't know, and while my intent is not to knock anyone, and while I can totally rationalize some sort of "Sponsored driver or Pro or Invitational" classification at the largest of events making such a differentation not only seperates the cream of the crop but also makes achieving such a notation all the harder. And now instead of us being happy with the old status quo we've changed the rules somewhere along the line and now there's this big confusion of who should run where.
And my feeling is that we should go back to how things used to be, "A" for the good guys, "B" for the almost good guys, etc., etc., etc., and us getting over the fact that our feelings are hurt by some of us having to run in the Q-main and instead using it as a motivational factor in making us want to improve. Everyone has to start somewhere, some of us will never compete on the highest level, and that's the way it should be.
But winning a so-called championship in the Sportsman or Intermediate Class is tantamount to winning the JV title in football - it counts for nothing. Because unless you know how to measure yourself against the big boys, any other sort of competetive comparison is pointless and utterly useless.
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:24 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by rocket-mtrsprts View Post
So what happened in racing and society that forced the change in thinking and mentality?
It may have been the stock/mod motor separation has bleed over into nitro.
It would be good to see a one class description and with the technology the lap counters can resort each round and put you right in line with your speed.

But I would also agree with factory, pro and club racer classifications. I think that 2 classes causes to much grief for the I want a fair race crowd.
3 classes would fix this I think?

Yet at national events there shouldn't be a separation.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:35 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by rocket-mtrsprts View Post
So what happened in racing and society that forced the change in thinking and mentality? Maybe this whole gig in which people were allowed to sign up under "other" classifications came about in our seemingly growing obsession with giving every kid in Little League or soccer getting a trophy of some sort regardless of how good or bad they or their team performed that seemingly grew out of the special olympics and letting each kid know they were a winner.

But winning a so-called championship in the Sportsman or Intermediate Class is tantamount to winning the JV title in football - it counts for nothing. Because unless you know how to measure yourself against the big boys, any other sort of competetive comparison is pointless and utterly useless.
I see your point, i would suggest however that a way of measuring yourself at around the halfway point is useful. In anyones first year of racing they are not going to be anywhere near the pro's. As far as i can see sportsman achieves two things. It teaches you that by staying on your wheels you beat people that are fast but crash. It also measures you ready to know you are good enough to go expert without causing the fast guys stupid problems (You are race aware enough to get out of the way of fast guy coming through, be passed without making stupid attempts to get place back without taking both of you out etc) because by then you should have some race craft.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:07 PM   #43
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Rocket- 15 years ago there wasn't much gas racing. You are most likely referring to electric. Back then ,if you did'nt make the main, so what.. you still raced the same amount of time as everyone else.. with the exception of triple-a mains.

Now that gas is around people want to experience running a longer main. Is it fun for a driver (who spends ALL of his hard earned money on his equipment) to come out week after week getting beat down in qualifying only to race a 5 min c main while all the pro drivers who get everything at discount or for free run in 15-30 minute A mains.

This is the idea behind two seperate classes. It keeps people coming back.
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:15 PM   #44
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Rocket- 15 years ago there wasn't much gas racing. You are most likely referring to electric. Back then ,if you did'nt make the main, so what.. you still raced the same amount of time as everyone else.. with the exception of triple-a mains.

Now that gas is around people want to experience running a longer main. Is it fun for a driver (who spends ALL of his hard earned money on his equipment) to come out week after week getting beat down in qualifying only to race a 5 min c main while all the pro drivers who get everything at discount or for free run in 15-30 minute A mains.

This is the idea behind two seperate classes. It keeps people coming back.

Interesting Mike, but if you look at it like that (same entry fee, shorter race lengths) then everybody racing electric is getting ripped off too. They're spending similar money on their equipment, and yet don't get the return in runtime. But I've never understood the obsession with long races anyway, but maybe it's just me. Personally, I've watched way too many lower mains in which there's only a car or two running at the end - which tells me if they were allowed 30 minutes or whatever it wouldn't make any difference anyway, they'd still DNF.

Maybe another way to look at it guys is that the A-main-ers are, and should be, getting bonus race time compared to everyone else. It's the privilige for making the A.

And, as I said earlier, at least you get to save on the tire bill.
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:28 PM   #45
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I would hope that ROAR would change electric rules on main race time. I think that with the batterys that are out now that they should increese them to at least 15 minutes. So the electric guys can see what its like to race for awile. I like 30 minute mains personally, anything longer and my legs get sore.
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