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Old 06-26-2008, 03:04 PM   #181
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Default dude this sucks

man this really sucks so bad
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:18 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
man i ran 20% fuel before and the only difference was a slight change in temps, i couldnt tell a difference in power considering MOST engines manufactured today are simply over kill...

so if there is or will be a shortage in 30%, i dont think its the end all..we will just have to re-tune and run 20%! im cool with that...its better than having nothing, thats for sure lol JMHO


By fall you won`t even be able to buy 20% ....


Yeah , its that bad.....
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:15 AM   #183
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Sounds like Wed. & Sat. nites are going to be boring soon.
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:31 AM   #184
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i really do beleive that there will be a solution soon i think its all being taken to serious. soon after the olympics those manufactures near geijing will start producing again we have to remember why they stopped its for the olympics
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:56 AM   #185
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itro shortage? Depends on whom you ask.
By Jeff Burk
5/23/08

As part of my research for this story I contacted VP Racing Fuels president Steve Burns and asked for his take on the issue. I received this Q and A from him generated by the communication department at VP.
Q. Is there currently a nitromethane shortage?

A. Yes. As you know, Angus Chemical withdrew their nitromethane product from the racing market over a year ago, so they’re off the table. As for manufacturers in China, they’re experiencing production problems for several reasons. There is a severe shortage of feedstocks required to make the nitromethane, with no relief expected until later in the fall. The Chinese government is also placing restrictions on nitro manufacturers and others such that no production can occur near and during the timeframe of the Summer Olympics. In addition, the government is placing restrictions on shipments into and out of their ports during two significant time periods this summer. Some production has been impacted by the recent earthquake.

Q. Will nitromethane be available this season for all segments of racing that require it?

A. No – not from VP. We are confident that VP will be able to supply sufficient quantities of nitromethane to NHRA Championship Drag Racing national events for the duration of this season. We feel a responsibility to provide this supply for NHRA and we take it very seriously. We recognize many jobs — from race teams to parts manufacturers to food vendors and parking lot attendants — are dependent on these events and we will do whatever is necessary to make sure these events occur. The fact is VP actually sells more nitromethane for industrial and hobby fuels annually than it does for racing. This year, we have dropped about 95% of our industrial and hobby business to ensure NHRA’s supply is uninterrupted. This will have a significantly negative financial impact on VP.

Q. Is it reasonable to think anyone who needs nitromethane will be able to get it if they’re willing to pay a high enough price?

A. No, not from VP. On the subject of price, due to the current supply situation, the price that VP pays for nitromethane has literally doubled in the last eight weeks. In addition to increased price, new restrictions on a number of hazardous substances, including nitromethane, has increased VP’s cost of handling nitro. Racers can expect to pay higher prices for any nitro they’re able to obtain. I suspect that some very questionable quality nitromethane will enter the market. Please be cautious.

Q. When can we expect the shortage situation to improve?

A. Speaking only for VP, we are reaching around the world to ensure long term quality supply. We are gaining confidence each day that we’ll be able to honor our commitment to NHRA this season. We expect by the 3rd or 4th quarter of this year, we will have sufficient quantities to satisfy some of the demand beyond NHRA. By next season, we expect to have sufficient quantities for most segments of racing, in part because we’re committed to stockpiling sufficient inventory to satisfy demand regardless of sporadic shortages. As you might expect, the increased cost of this effort will put pressure on prices, but at least the product will then be available to those that need it.

Q. Is there more to this supply shortage than just the problems in China?

A. YES, absolutely. In addition to the situation in China, our efforts to secure a supply of nitromethane this year have encountered other obstacles that have been extremely frustrating for us and made the situation more difficult than it needed to be. When the time is right, the entire story will be told, and it will be very interesting.

Recently there has been a lot of concern in the world of drag racing over a possible shortage of nitromethane. This is no small issue since both the NHRA and IHRA plus various other series such as the Texas-based Fuel Altered circuit, the Hot Rod Heritage circuit and others are dependent upon the availability of nitromethane for those series to be successful.

The problem is that the official supplier for the NHRA, VP Racing Fuels, evidently is having problems getting enough nitro to meet not only the demands of NHRA drag racers but also supplying other larger and smaller markets that use the chemical.

Part of the problem is the increasing difficulty for anyone to get nitro shipped from China to the U.S. in large quantities. A contributing factor is the withdrawal of Dow/Angus as the sole U.S.-based manufacturer and supplier of nitro for racing a few years back, causing all nitro used for auto racing to be imported from mainland China.

Reportedly, Torco Racing Fuels, which is the official supplier for the IHRA, the MacMonagle family, who are the official suppliers for the AHDRA, and VP Racing Fuels have recently taken delivery of 80-drum containers of Chinese-manufactured nitro to meet those series’ requirements, but nevertheless racers remain concerned regarding the supply of nitro for the 2008 racing season.

The nitro racers’ paranoia wasn’t helped when NHRA’s Steve Gibbs posted a note on the Standard 1320 bulletin board saying there was no official supplier of nitro for the NHRA-backed Hot Rod Heritage circuit or the “cackle cars” and that those racers would have to find their own nitro.

Apparently the real problem isn’t having nitro for the near future but rather in four to six months. The fact is that the Chinese government is in the process of restricting ports such as Singapore from shipping out Hazmat materials and is shutting down some factories that make nitromethane in order to meet the environmental requirements for that country to hold the upcoming Summer Olympics.

The reality is that there are at least two sources that currently are known to have stockpiles of racing grade nitro: Don Schumacher, who, although he is no longer in the nitro sales business, has a large supply warehoused as well as containers of nitro on boats on their way to the states, and VP Racing Fuels.

A third source could be the Wego Company, which Schumacher says has its own nitromethane factory on the China mainland and apparently has no issue making and shipping nitro to the states. In the past Wego has supplied various U.S. distributors with nitro.

Reliable sources tell me that there is a good chance that NHRA will allow a second supplier of nitromethane to be named. That second group would probably be connected with the Wego Company and, according to Don Schumacher, both he and Steve LeSeur would be involved. I had a conversation with Steve Scheidker at VP and came away with the impression that VP wanted to find a solution and didn’t have a problem working with Don Schumacher to try and resolve the issues.

The bottom line is this. As long as the price of nitro keeps going up and the NHRA and IHRA continue to use nitro-burning cars as their main attraction there will be problems. One problem is that in order for the supply of nitro to go uninterrupted. the NHRA, VP Racing Fuels, Don Schumacher’s group and the Wego Company are all going to have to sit down and work out their issues. I’ve been told that is already happening through back channels and that all the parties want that to happen, but recent published statements from one of the principles in Competition Plus may have caused some problems.

After my conversations recently with Don Schumacher I am convinced that he is sincerely looking for a solution to the nitro problem. It is in his best interest as a mega-team owner in the NHRA for there to be no event stoppage because of lack of nitro. Racers, sponsors, and sanctioning bodies all have vested interest in keeping nitro racing alive and healthy.

A combination of demand for and the cost of manufacturing and shipping nitro will keep driving the price of nitro higher; there is no escaping that. Schumacher told me that in the past he was being charged around $2,000 a metric ton for nitro but the latest quotes he has gotten has seen that price more than doubled to around $5,000 a metric ton.

My opinion is that if the price of nitro gets high enough Dow/Angus may return to making and selling nitro in the U.S.

Keep in mind that back in 1987 nitro racers were paying $1,500 for a 55-gallon drum of 100 percent nitro. That is $1,500 in 1987 dollars. Factoring for inflation, nitro today is still cheaper than it was 20 years ago.

Like it or not, whether you burn $10-a-gallon race gasoline, $3-a-gallon methanol, or $30-a-gallon nitro in your street or race car, you’ll be paying more for it for a long time to come.

As any junkie can tell you, his only problem with his drug of choice, whether heroin or nitromethane, isn’t the cost but the availability. How much will you pay to cackle your toy or fill the tank of your race car? We haven’t reached the point where it’s too expensive…yet.
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:10 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by donbeatya View Post
i really do beleive that there will be a solution soon i think its all being taken to serious. soon after the olympics those manufactures near geijing will start producing again we have to remember why they stopped its for the olympics
They close those factory`s down and are going to rebuild them so they meet eviromental standards...

You won`t see a factory producing Nitro in China untill 2010, and not before....
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:06 PM   #187
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If there are still people who don't believe go to amain and check out their prices on cases of fuel. I bought a case last week for $84.99 the price is now $134.99 a case
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:11 PM   #188
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+$50 a case
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:53 PM   #189
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+$50 a case
Yes and then tack on $40 for shipping and you have a case of fuel costing $174.00 a case. They can go to hell before I pay $174 a case for fuel. I guess I'll be going brushless. This is a nice way to put nitro racing out of buisness.:
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Old 06-28-2008, 09:53 PM   #190
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What about trying a different source? I saw on the TQ thread on here I think they are claiming $112 for a case shipped.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:13 PM   #191
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What about trying a different source? I saw on the TQ thread on here I think they are claiming $112 for a case shipped.
And all made from USA Nitro. China can't be the only place to get Nitro. I am sure there are other sources, perhaps not as cheap, but I am sure not too much more. I am sure there will be a spike in cost, but after they everyone adjusts to new sources the price should level off and be reasonable.

I was able to pick up a few more gallons at my local hobby store. Price was up about $3. All the shops in the area sell a gallon of 30% for around $25. And they all do confirm there will be a lag and shortage for a little while.

So, stock up for the summer or just make adjustments to other brands and %'s.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:05 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Duct View Post
And all made from USA Nitro. China can't be the only place to get Nitro. I am sure there are other sources, perhaps not as cheap, but I am sure not too much more. I am sure there will be a spike in cost, but after they everyone adjusts to new sources the price should level off and be reasonable.

I was able to pick up a few more gallons at my local hobby store. Price was up about $3. All the shops in the area sell a gallon of 30% for around $25. And they all do confirm there will be a lag and shortage for a little while.

So, stock up for the summer or just make adjustments to other brands and %'s.

...For some of the "smaller guys" like TQ and Tilted (and others that sell direct to consumers, as well as the dealers themselves). While the retailers that are taking advantage of the short term oppertunity to bump up the prices and do a little gouging (while spouting "supply and demand!!!, supply and demand!!!), suppliers like TQ stand to build a much larger customer base if they play their cards right.

The key is to resist the urge to build the short term profits by NOT raising prices (or only making minimal increases). They'd be smart to absorb most of any actual nitro cost increases as an investment in their future.

Those that do so will enjoy the long term benefit of getting (and keeping) a plethora (yes Jefe, you have a plethora...) of customers that switch from those brands that do jack the prices up (or whose dealers do so, without the manufaturers keeping them in check). I hope my LHS is smart enough to not engage in gouging. He's already bumped the prices by a buck or so in the last couple of weeks. He's a sharp guy, so I'm guessing he'll do the right thing. If he doesn't, I know I'll be switching brands and buying direct...
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:27 AM   #193
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We spend $600 for a kit, $600 for a motor/pipe, $75 for a set of tires, and hundreds of more dollars on electonics. What I am geting at is I don't see why an extra $10-$20 a gallon is a big deal compared to the thousands we already spend. In Canada I pay $40 per gallon/$160 per case and I will happily pay $60 per gallon if it keeps me racing nitro. Let's try to keep it in perspective.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:36 AM   #194
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i agree with you about the coast of building your ride so why b&*&*about the cost of fuel the lhs here in mi. say that they will not have a proplem getting 30% or 20%
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:19 PM   #195
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Every season I offer up to my club members a "fuel Deal" and they get a chance to buy the fuel at just over cost, (I want the hobby shop owner to get a cut too ) and I get many cases ,the more you get the cheaper it is to a point, anyway this works out great for ETMR members the get 30% Byron's for like $20 a gallon !
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