R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-12-2008, 10:13 PM   #226
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: the other end of the driver's stand
Posts: 469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
thats like before the race the team installs a Ferarri engine inside a Ford GT...LOL i wonder how far something like that would fly...
Maybe a little automotive history lesson would help you understand better.

In an effort to win LeMans back in the 1960s Ford attempted to buy Ferrari, Enzo resisted the attempt, so as a way to get back at the Italian Ford hired designers and put some of their own people to work to build a Ferrari-killer... the "project" was named the Ford GT40
oldschoolracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2008, 10:18 PM   #227
Tech Regular
 
Fletcher6371's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 336
Default

ok its the "Pros" not the "Average Joe's" sorry if that offends anyone but it's true. The guys at the top of there game are the ones racing at the level we're talking about her. I'm just a beginner and have NO PROBLEM with the pros running parts that i can't get a hold of. I've grown up in racing my whole life. I've lived at dirt tracks across the midwest since i was 6months old. The guys who are pros have parts you can't get. Currently i Pit a Fastrak Latemodel. Its a "crate" class. Sealed motors for everyone. no1 can tinker with the engines to make them run faster. we have to set up the cars with the chassis to make them run faster than the other guy. The reason we race a "crate" class is cause its COST EFFECTIVE. there are Super latemodel classes all over the country that its basically a run-what-you-brung. Money drives EVERYTHING. I can take our "Crate" car and run with Supers IF its an ill handling track. its been done before but its HARD. The guys in the supers are what we in RC would call PROS and the crates are like club racers. The pros run what ever they can. club racers are limited to there pocket books, and whats available to them. BUT if a driver is good enough to set the car up AND drive it and win against the pros then it really shows his/hers talent. The only thing i've always wondered is why is their not a "Crate" series in RC? (if there not already) Make a driver run a issued motor, issued servos, issues radios, and issued tires? It'll keep costs down (its been proved in the full-scale racing) and it'll truly show the capabilities of a driver/mechanic. let the driver pick the chassis he/she wants to run and issue everything else to them. Just an idea. But like i said be4 the "Pros" are a run-what-you-brung class, they have "endless" pocket books with factory backing, and the "Average Joe" is a guy who has to get what he can to race. This is my 2cents take it or leave it but its here to see.
__________________
FlatBusted Racing
Dialed Inc., North Central Hobbies, Competition Heat, FUnS Racing lol
Fletcher6371 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 01:07 AM   #228
Tech Addict
 
slow coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: guernsey C.I.
Posts: 626
Default

Jesse i get what your saying with brand loyalty especially when sponsored by the company, but tuning is all about trying stuff whether it be made by your sponsor or someone else as long as you dont start changing the car into another so its not recognisable as a XXXX car anymore why not, i would also imagine that a big meeting like the Nats that the manufacturers also want to win, if that means that a losi driver who has found that a kyosho spring works better the team will tell all its drivers this information as they want to win as much as the drivers, its all about advertising, the A main is essentially a rolling advert of whos products work although tbh its not really useful for us club guys as what works for the pro may be a total handful for us and i guess with all chassis some will buy then sell soon after when they cant get it to work for them, i dont agree 100% that all proto parts are tested at the nats either bit of a gamble really but im sure maybe some are but thats what club racing and practise is for see what works before the big meets, the Nats should be left open run what you like as long as you fall within the sprirt of the rules.
__________________
Kyosho MP9TKI2 soon to be TKI3, Novarossi, SMD, GM Racing, www.grccc.org
a great wife and lovely kids
what more can you ask for
a win on the lottery :D

Last edited by slow coach; 06-13-2008 at 03:47 AM. Reason: spelling :)
slow coach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 01:27 AM   #229
Tech Elite
 
Teufel Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sparks Nv.
Posts: 2,134
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Fletcher,
I do believe what you are asking on the "Crate" class has been done, but mostly in Elec. and I am not sure if its being done anymore.
Some of the bigger Elec. races used to run a handout motor and tires, pretty much "Spec" racing to an extent. I'd say that the last I heard of that being done was close to 10 years ago or so. I think it worked to a point, but that was in a different time in Elec. racing whereas there would be a huge difference between a "Pro" and a "Joe".
I don't run Elec. anymore, but last time I did it did seem to be a little more even than it used to. That didn't mean that some of the guys running "Pro" stock were any slower, but over all the field was fairly level.
Losi and Trinity both produced a "Spec" kit to try to keep costs down. Did it work? Maybe for a minute or two depending on the location and for what ever reason fell by the wayside.
Losi was known back then for the "Blue" tires that they included in the kits. Hard as a rock, smelled funny, and when put on the Yellow wheels lokked real ugly.
I think Hot Rod Hobbies used them once as the "Spec" tire for the Shootout they have every year.
I think part of the reason the handout tires and motors didn't last too long was the cost for the race promoter to get them and then figure that cost in to the entry fees.
That was back when a "Stock" motor didn't cost very much, 25-30 bones if not bought in bulk. That made the entry fees come in around 45 bones which was thought to be a lot. If only a big race entry fee still cost that.
I have been trying to get some of the local racers in the area to understand that concept that whlie a "Spec" or stock class sounds cost effective, the longer you run that class the more you end up spending. Its the old motor, tire, and batt. of the week club issue. Brushless/LiPo should help in that area.

Now lets see how that "spec" idea would apply to a Nitro class. It has been done and from what I remember seemed to do pretty well in onroad, but it was all done by Kyosho. I think they still run that Kyosho Cup. Tamiya has done pretty much the same thing, but with elec. Anyway, other than the rules that govern that kind of class, there can be a huge grey area that some will find a way to skirt the rules and be faster than most of the class. Its racing and many racers, "Pro" and "Joe" alike who have the know how will always find that little extra speed out of what they have. Like the Elec. mentioned above, if we go a step further and try to apply a handout motor or tire in nitro that cost of the entry fee would be so high that the "Joe's" probably could never afford to enter. Not that they didn't spend that kind of money already, but the fee alone would turn many away.
While a "Crate" class could work and I like the idea, I think it would be a hard thing to do in a nitro class. Though not impossibile to do, just harder than most people getting the event put together may wish to tackle.
I got off topic, but I hope you got the point I was after. Its in there somewhere. LOL.
__________________
J.Mikoliczyk

ZX6 - RB6 - MP9e
Fantom Racing, Cheater Racing
Houston's Engine Service
Teufel Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 03:45 AM   #230
Tech Addict
 
slow coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: guernsey C.I.
Posts: 626
Default

tyres would be the only real way in nitro to do anymore would be totally uneconomical to run.
__________________
Kyosho MP9TKI2 soon to be TKI3, Novarossi, SMD, GM Racing, www.grccc.org
a great wife and lovely kids
what more can you ask for
a win on the lottery :D
slow coach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 03:57 AM   #231
Tech Fanatic
 
Geo Y-Rock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 972
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
In a word, yes. Peugeot would absolutely use Ford parts if it was the best way to get their car to run better. They would disguise them at Peugeot parts but you can bet the farm that they would and do use whatever makes the car more competitive while they develop their next gen parts.

Truhe ran what he was "supposed" to run? What about when Losi ran the 8ight at nats before the car was out? They are "supposed" to run whatever their sponsors want them to. If that's production stuff at the time, great, if it's a prototype that nobody else can get, who cares? It's al R&D to make thier next generation products that we will buy.

Sometimes Losi guys run ProLine tires..
What I want to know is when are you going to park that frickin' bicycle and come race with your buddies? Lately, we've been talking about a trip to Monroe on the 21st.
__________________
Sponsored by: Team Losi ~ Nitrotane ~ Spektrum Radios ~ GRP Engines ~ Upgrade/Rc Id ~

I got 99 problems, but a b!#ch ain't one!
Geo Y-Rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 04:43 AM   #232
Tech Champion
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,846
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo Y-Rock View Post
What I want to know is when are you going to park that frickin' bicycle and come race with your buddies? Lately, we've been talking about a trip to Monroe on the 21st.
Ha ha! Not long now. If my servo mounts come in today at RCP I will likely be at the Rockpile on Sunday.
Davidka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 08:21 AM   #233
Tech Regular
 
Fletcher6371's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: O'Fallon, MO
Posts: 336
Default

Teufel,
i know what your talking about with the gray area of the rule book. what im saying for a "crate/spec" series is like everyone must run unmodified engine (pick the same one for everyone), a certain set of servos, and lets just say Proline Crimefighters (all compounds). NOW, everyone would have to purchase their parts before the race, and keep the entry fee low. We wouldn't have to hand out anything at the races. Then the only thing is that we'd have to have every car Tech'd before the races. do it once when they first show up and once AFTER the a-main. just impound the cars afterwards. When they pass then they get it all back. it sounds hard and difficult but we do it with the Fastrak the way racers are. We complain about too much water on the track or not enough. Racers just complain about what ever we can LOL i think that a crate class would not only make it more economical but also showcase more the skills of the drivers and the mechanics. To me its the only way to "prove" that one driver is better than the other. IF everyone has the same stuff then the one who wins must be the best. just my opinion and a lil off topic but still.....
__________________
FlatBusted Racing
Dialed Inc., North Central Hobbies, Competition Heat, FUnS Racing lol
Fletcher6371 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 08:44 AM   #234
Suspended
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: the other end of the driver's stand
Posts: 469
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher6371 View Post
Teufel,
i know what your talking about with the gray area of the rule book. what im saying for a "crate/spec" series is like everyone must run unmodified engine (pick the same one for everyone), a certain set of servos, and lets just say Proline Crimefighters (all compounds). NOW, everyone would have to purchase their parts before the race, and keep the entry fee low. We wouldn't have to hand out anything at the races. Then the only thing is that we'd have to have every car Tech'd before the races. do it once when they first show up and once AFTER the a-main. just impound the cars afterwards. When they pass then they get it all back. it sounds hard and difficult but we do it with the Fastrak the way racers are. We complain about too much water on the track or not enough. Racers just complain about what ever we can LOL i think that a crate class would not only make it more economical but also showcase more the skills of the drivers and the mechanics. To me its the only way to "prove" that one driver is better than the other. IF everyone has the same stuff then the one who wins must be the best. just my opinion and a lil off topic but still.....

Not that spec/crate/whaterveryouwannacallem classes can't work under certain circumstances (especially on the club level) - BUT that's not what this topic was about.
Some people tried to interject some mention of "everyone running the same/unmodded equipment, and some of the others of us said THAT'S spec racing - and thus, NOT what open Nationals-level racing is about.
oldschoolracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 09:35 AM   #235
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher6371 View Post
Teufel,
i know what your talking about with the gray area of the rule book. what im saying for a "crate/spec" series is like everyone must run unmodified engine (pick the same one for everyone), a certain set of servos, and lets just say Proline Crimefighters (all compounds). NOW, everyone would have to purchase their parts before the race, and keep the entry fee low. We wouldn't have to hand out anything at the races. Then the only thing is that we'd have to have every car Tech'd before the races. do it once when they first show up and once AFTER the a-main. just impound the cars afterwards. When they pass then they get it all back. it sounds hard and difficult but we do it with the Fastrak the way racers are. We complain about too much water on the track or not enough. Racers just complain about what ever we can LOL i think that a crate class would not only make it more economical but also showcase more the skills of the drivers and the mechanics. To me its the only way to "prove" that one driver is better than the other. IF everyone has the same stuff then the one who wins must be the best. just my opinion and a lil off topic but still.....

Would really hate to see a spec class created , its does not prove who`s a better mechanic or driver or what ever ..


Spec only decides who spent the most....


The way the class works right now is perfect ..

You can use what you think you need and this keeps the car`s even and competitive ...
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 09:38 AM   #236
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 3,341
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

There is usually more cheating in spec classes too.


Colin
__________________
Time Zone Raceways www.Timezonehobbies.com
www.ColinBranch.com
C Branch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 12:11 PM   #237
Tech Elite
 
Teufel Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sparks Nv.
Posts: 2,134
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

Fletcher,
If that type of class is working for guys where you run, that is great. At a "Club" level it may be easier to do than at a bigger event like the Nats. or something along the same lines.

I did go off topic in responce to Fletchers post, so back ot our regular topic.
__________________
J.Mikoliczyk

ZX6 - RB6 - MP9e
Fantom Racing, Cheater Racing
Houston's Engine Service
Teufel Racing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2008, 01:35 PM   #238
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brandon, MS
Posts: 543
Default

Most spec classes fail because the rules get modified too often.

Ed M.
bentgear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hot Rod Hobbies -ROAR NATS DJGonzo69 Electric Off-Road 201 08-25-2008 05:51 PM
ENGINES USED AT ROAR NATS HELLOkitty Nitro On-Road 15 11-12-2005 09:44 AM
ROAR Nats at the Tri-Clone Hock Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 1 06-07-2004 06:15 AM
roar carpet nats Matt M. Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 51 01-24-2003 10:40 PM
ROAR On Road Nats, are you going? Kraig Racing Forum 10 07-24-2002 01:59 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:27 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net