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Old 06-11-2008, 01:34 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by oldschoolracer View Post
YOU were the one that brought children into the discussion, not I. And frankly, you talked like one of those parents of children that believe kids deserve stupid "football competitor" trophies so they don't fell left out for not winning. I only used the phrase "nuture your child or anyone else's," if you'd read slowly and comprehend instead of being quick to anger, as an EXAMPLE as well.

As far as "recognizing" lower mains winners on the PA system before the final main results are announced, that happens all the time all over. If it's a large nationals event in which there are 500 entrants, then maybe not. But we're used to larger National events on this side of the pond, and maybe that's where your misunderstanding comes in.

i used an example which included for reference children as it more than adequately emphasised the words i have been putting across from the start, you took it further not I, my kids dont compete not old enough so no not in that league mate sorry.

I wasnt refering to only children either i meant all racers who entered the nats and won their final, as i said earlier if it happened then i apologise as it was infered elsewhere that the lower mains get brushed aside if this wasnt the case i was fighting a side which didnt need it my error.

No misunderstanding stated a point which wouldnt cost nowt but makes people more appreciative of their involvement in the sport thats all but this seems hard to stomach by some im sorry if i maybe sounded angry but i was a bit annoyed by the earlier posts about losers i didnt feel it had any place here, thats sorted pm sent and done that was down to not realising it was meant in jest smiley was missing at end of it, anyway take it as you will i wont change my opinion and dare say you will either.

sorry to go off topic and all and still agree that the nats should be run open and with whatever you can get your hands on as long as its in the spirit of the rules.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:39 PM   #167
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I do need to say something here. Kenny Brosch was announcing the whole week and he calls every single qualifier, and main, like it is the last lap of the Worlds. Everybody is made to feel like a superstar when Kenny is announcing.

I hope this clears things up


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Old 06-11-2008, 01:42 PM   #168
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Well... my other hobby is priced by the hour (no, not talking about those darned 1-900 numbers again...) so it makes sense to me to do so. I can go to these races, be a spectator, and pit for my buds, and save that money... sure, travel cost is still there... but I'll have nearly as much fun (had a great time at the finals, and was just there to pit for the guys) without spending as much. Entry, parts, tires, fuel... By the same token I can go rent a 7GCBC Citabria for $98 per hour wet, and have more fun with that. (And I DO consider "fun per dollar..." I can rent a Cessena 152 for a LOT less, but the Citabria has more value in fun factor.)
ROFL ~ you really sounds like you've got the whole 1-900 thing down pat.

Anyway, I guess we can equate a lot of things "by the hour" - but then if one would factor $98 x 8 x 2 = $1,568 for a weekend of flying.....
I think I'll stick to golf as my highend annual diversionary funding.


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Well, I have friends that are usually running in those later mains... so I guess I have a good reason to be there...
Sounds like a good reason. Maybe they'll still be around when you get some more expereince and wheeltime and pass 'em by.

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Hmmmm... the last races I've been to, the track IMPROVED throughout the day, starting out dry and dusty and turning into a very nice "blue groove" by the end of the day. Ruts and bumps? ummmm... this IS offroad racing!
I travel quit a bit, so maybe I see "more" different surfaces. Yes, bluegroove, but I've also seen ruts so deep you had to change your line as the day went on and I've seen holes develop that swallow cars and didn't spit 'em out.

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As for the day being too long... Of course if none of us 8-minute-main racers shows up, the day is a lot shorter too... perhaps we shouldn't be there at all? This is my point exactly... I'm paying to allow this big race to happen, so the A main can be 45 minutes or an hour, and I get to run 8 minutes? It's about fun more than competition... although both are elements of the hobby. I'm saying I don't get enough for my money to be worth it. I am seriously considering skipping the OKC round of RC Pro for this reason. I haven't signed up yet, haven't renewed my membership... and I'm not sure if I will.
I'm not saying that you don't have a valid point about your 8 minutes vs. the 45 - personally I think the only thing 45 minutes proves is who has the deepest tire bag. But that's another discussion. Come to think about it, I guess part of what I'm now saying is that by increasing your runtime your tire bills go up as well. If I don't make the A, I don't want to race that long, and I'd just as soon save tires and fuel for another day of club racing.

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This is also probably a big part of the reason that some of the faster guys won't "step up" to expert... because they'll only get to run little short mains since they won't make the A.
Well I'm not going there, I've already had enough of the "I wanna trophy" discussion for one day... LOL

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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
The Nitro Invitational that we just ran had 15 minute lower mains... the day was fine (granted, it was a smaller race, less entries) and I enjoyed the chance to run long enough to "settle in" and drive better... the pit stops added to the entertainment... (I changed cars since the last "big" race... same motor, but I can drive this one harder so my runtime suffers, had to pit twice to be sure I didn't run out.) It also made me realize what a bad "deal" the other races are. That one was $35 for a 2-day event, with BBQ dinner provided, no membership needed (well, I guess you have to be a Texan lol) and I got to run a 15 minute main...
Well, sounds to me like another example of "Everything's bigger in Texas." LOL
No, it sounds like it was cool and that you had a good time and plenty of runtime.
And there again, I don't know that I'm an advocate of big races being a "everyone come" affair. Sure it's good experience, and an experience in itself, but smaller regional or the Nitro Inv. you attended are good examples of races without all the trappings and entries on a National - yet bigtime enough to have a good time at.

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If these promoters want to encourage the hobby, they need to even out the fun factor... your quote about "if you wanna play you have to pay" makes sense... so why should I pay more to play (by the time allotted) than the other guy does?
I don't know how to quantify it for each person. I just figured that when I first got into racing that making the A was my goal, and I just never felt shorted by not running as much as the bigboys (but I do know that I had to beg/borrow/steal a couple of sets of tires to get through my first podium finish).
At the same time I think that short of making all mains 45-minutes, or whatever the A's run, leaves people grumbling (what I only get 20 minutes?). I've been to races in which they ran electric too, and the electric guys were grumbling that they were having to marshall the longer gas mains (valid point, but what do you do?).
I just tend to think that at some point, at some level, that you can never make everything "fair" for everyone or keep everyone happy all the time.

~ Keep 'em between the pipes
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:43 PM   #169
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I do need to say something here. Kenny Brosch was announcing the whole week and he calls every single qualifier, and main, like it is the last lap of the Worlds. Everybody is made to feel like a superstar when Kenny is announcing.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:49 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by C Branch View Post
I do need to say something here. Kenny Brosch was announcing the whole week and he calls every single qualifier, and main, like it is the last lap of the Worlds. Everybody is made to feel like a superstar when Kenny is announcing.

I hope this clears things up


Colin
Paul does that at the Nitro Invitationals... he's a very entertaining and enthusiastic Race Director.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:58 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by slow coach View Post
i used an example which included for reference children as it more than adequately emphasised the words i have been putting across from the start, you took it further not I, my kids dont compete not old enough so no not in that league mate sorry.
Bringing it up opens it up. I didn't bring it up, you did.
I've already raised my children, maybe you'll better understand as yours get older. No worries.

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Originally Posted by slow coach View Post
I wasnt refering to only children either i meant all racers who entered the nats and won their final, as i said earlier if it happened then i apologise as it was infered elsewhere that the lower mains get brushed aside if this wasnt the case i was fighting a side which didnt need it my error.
I guess the point everyone seems intent on blurring is that winning the A is reasonably the only one that matters. All the others might consider themselves winners, but in reality the guy that won the F-main finished in the 60th (or whatever) finishing position.

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Originally Posted by slow coach View Post
No misunderstanding stated a point which wouldnt cost nowt but makes people more appreciative of their involvement in the sport thats all but this seems hard to stomach by some im sorry if i maybe sounded angry but i was a bit annoyed by the earlier posts about losers i didnt feel it had any place here, thats sorted pm sent and done that was down to not realising it was meant in jest smiley was missing at end of it, anyway take it as you will i wont change my opinion and dare say you will either.
Well it did sound as if you were quite a fluster and angry. I'm guessing you're a Brit, so maybe you aren't familiar with the expression well known in the States "second place is the first loser" -- but it's commonly used over here, especially in reference to racing.
I don't think anyone's intending that lower finishers shouldn't be commended for their efforts, they are an important element to racing, yet at the same time it seems as if there's a huge difference between commending someone and actually recognizing or attempting to quanitfy their finish by suggesting they be given an award or something.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:02 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by bentgear View Post
Not at hardly any of the races that I have attended in the last several years.
Every promotor and race director is different,
but there again the guy that won the A-main is the only true winner of the event.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:06 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by oldschoolracer View Post
ROFL ~ you really sounds like you've got the whole 1-900 thing down pat.
Ummmm... I was being impolite with the reference... This is a "family environment" so I won't elaborate... and it was directed at the costs that the slower guys like me pay to run shorter times. I'm pretty sure you can figure it out...

Quote:
Anyway, I guess we can equate a lot of things "by the hour" - but then if one would factor $98 x 8 x 2 = $1,568 for a weekend of flying.....
I think I'll stick to golf as my highend annual diversionary funding.
Well, that would be like racing 8 hours a day for 2 days for the same cost. The by the minute cost for the actual activity is still cheaper (flying vs. racing in the lower mains.) If you factor the 8 hours out as hanging out at the airport (or track) shooting the breeze and "hangar flying" (or "bench racing") and watching the others fly (or race) flying is cheaper. Of course I suppose you could say the risks are higher flying... but I'm probably about as likely to die by being hit in the head marshalling as I am spinning it in... especially since spinning (and therefore recovery) is one of my favorite things to do, so I'm proficient at recovering.


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Sounds like a good reason. Maybe they'll still be around when you get some more expereince and wheeltime and pass 'em by.
Ummm... they're all pretty fast... that won't happen anytime soon.

Quote:
I travel quit a bit, so maybe I see "more" different surfaces. Yes, bluegroove, but I've also seen ruts so deep you had to change your line as the day went on and I've seen holes develop that swallow cars and didn't spit 'em out.
Well... like I said... it's offroad racing... carpet is always consistant. The track changes all the time in offroad. I personally almost prefer a "blown out" track to a "groomed" one. It's more entertaining.

Quote:
I'm not saying that you don't have a valid point about your 8 minutes vs. the 45 - personally I think the only thing 45 minutes proves is who has the deepest tire bag. But that's another discussion. Come to think about it, I guess part of what I'm now saying is that by increasing your runtime your tire bills go up as well. If I don't make the A, I don't want to race that long, and I'd just as soon save tires and fuel for another day of club racing.
Understood... and I on the other hand don't think everyone should run 45 minutes either... I just think that an 8 minute main is ludicrous.

Quote:
Well I'm not going there, I've already had enough of the "I wanna trophy" discussion for one day... LOL
Oh yeah... one of my "crew" is one of those sandbaggers... he got browbeat into running expert at the Nitro Invitational... he "only" got 5th in expert. (And he opened his mouth while all the smack talk was going on Saturday night... "If I make top 5 in Expert I'll run a pink body..." paint is in progress... )

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Well, sounds to me like another example of "Everything's bigger in Texas." LOL
No, it sounds like it was cool and that you had a good time and plenty of runtime.
And there again, I don't know that I'm an advocate of big races being a "everyone come" affair. Sure it's good experience, and an experience in itself, but smaller regional or the Nitro Inv. you attended are good examples of races without all the trappings and entries on a National - yet bigtime enough to have a good time at.
Honestly the best time I've ever had at ANY race was last year's Nitro Invitational in Austin. We camped at the track and cooked out, had a good time overall... maybe 150 entries overall?

Quote:
I don't know how to quantify it for each person. I just figured that when I first got into racing that making the A was my goal, and I just never felt shorted by not running as much as the bigboys (but I do know that I had to beg/borrow/steal a couple of sets of tires to get through my first podium finish).
At the same time I think that short of making all mains 45-minutes, or whatever the A's run, leaves people grumbling (what I only get 20 minutes?). I've been to races in which they ran electric too, and the electric guys were grumbling that they were having to marshall the longer gas mains (valid point, but what do you do?).
I just tend to think that at some point, at some level, that you can never make everything "fair" for everyone or keep everyone happy all the time.

~ Keep 'em between the pipes
Again... not asking for a 45 minute main... running that longer main is part of qualifying better... but (roughly) 6 times as long? They didn't turn 6 times as many laps as I did in qualifying...
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:21 PM   #174
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Nothing you guys are arguing about has to do with the original post.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:26 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Ummmm... I was being impolite with the reference... This is a "family environment" so I won't elaborate... and it was directed at the costs that the slower guys like me pay to run shorter times. I'm pretty sure you can figure it out...
I actually thought you were trying to be polite, sorry, or at least interjecting a little humor in this rather hate-filled thread.

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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Well, that would be like racing 8 hours a day for 2 days for the same cost. The by the minute cost for the actual activity is still cheaper (flying vs. racing in the lower mains.) If you factor the 8 hours out as hanging out at the airport (or track) shooting the breeze and "hangar flying" (or "bench racing") and watching the others fly (or race) flying is cheaper.
I guess I'm considering the "whole day price factor" involved - kinda like I have to do on the golfcourse, where if you figure out the entire time you spend making shots (I think it's like 2-1/2 minutes total) relative to a avaerage round lasting 4+ hourse.....


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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Of course I suppose you could say the risks are higher flying... but I'm probably about as likely to die by being hit in the head marshalling as I am spinning it in... especially since spinning (and therefore recovery) is one of my favorite things to do, so I'm proficient at recovering.
Kinda like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rct1X2QBm_Y


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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Ummm... they're all pretty fast... that won't happen anytime soon.
Well, you're admittedly pretty new at this aren't you?
You've hardly gotten your feet wet.

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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Well... like I said... it's offroad racing... carpet is always consistant. The track changes all the time in offroad. I personally almost prefer a "blown out" track to a "groomed" one. It's more entertaining.
Well, to each his own I suppose.
I just remember losing a race once when I tried to pass the tangle of leaders in front of me I'd been chasing for laps waiting for an error - I coasted into the ruts, car high-centered, and the entire field passed me before I got marshalled.

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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Understood... and I on the other hand don't think everyone should run 45 minutes either... I just think that an 8 minute main is ludicrous.
Maybe I've been racing long enough, oldman here, that I settle in pretty quickly - usually the first lap or so. That and I get damned tired much sooner nowadays. LOL

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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Oh yeah... one of my "crew" is one of those sandbaggers... he got browbeat into running expert at the Nitro Invitational... he "only" got 5th in expert. (And he opened his mouth while all the smack talk was going on Saturday night... "If I make top 5 in Expert I'll run a pink body..." paint is in progress... )
You guys need to rig some pretty bows on it too... maybe little trailing ribbons.

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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Honestly the best time I've ever had at ANY race was last year's Nitro Invitational in Austin. We camped at the track and cooked out, had a good time overall... maybe 150 entries overall?
Sounds like a rockin' good time was had by all. Might have to make that one next year.

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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Again... not asking for a 45 minute main... running that longer main is part of qualifying better... but (roughly) 6 times as long? They didn't turn 6 times as many laps as I did in qualifying...
Fresh. clean treads always go faster
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:30 PM   #176
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Nothing you guys are arguing about has to do with the original post.
Just doing a quick scan through your previous posts and I didn't see much in the way of you adding anything of substance to any topic you've posted in.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:34 PM   #177
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I actually thought you were trying to be polite, sorry, or at least interjecting a little humor in this rather hate-filled thread.
yup... a polite way to make an impolite reference, and a bit of humor... (I was serious once... a few years ago... but I got over it and I'm all better now...)

Quote:
I guess I'm considering the "whole day price factor" involved - kinda like I have to do on the golfcourse, where if you figure out the entire time you spend making shots (I think it's like 2-1/2 minutes total) relative to a avaerage round lasting 4+ hourse.....
I was too... and an hour of flying is my normal "quota." Maybe 2 or so sometimes... but that's about it.

Quote:

Kinda like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rct1X2QBm_Y




Well, you're admittedly pretty new at this aren't you?
You've hardly gotten your feet wet.
Yeah, just over a year.

Quote:
Well, to each his own I suppose.
I just remember losing a race once when I tried to pass the tangle of leaders in front of me I'd been chasing for laps waiting for an error - I coasted into the ruts, car high-centered, and the entire field passed me before I got marshalled.
I understand what you're saying... I just think it is part of "offroad."


Quote:
Maybe I've been racing long enough, oldman here, that I settle in pretty quickly - usually the first lap or so. That and I get damned tired much sooner nowadays. LOL
It takes me 3-4 minutes of the main to calm down. My knees shake so bad I'll shake the whole drivers stand at the start of a main. Just excitment.

Quote:
You guys need to rig some pretty bows on it too... maybe little trailing ribbons.
Ummmm... got some "Hello Kitty" stickers.

Quote:
Sounds like a rockin' good time was had by all. Might have to make that one next year.



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Old 06-11-2008, 02:36 PM   #178
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Just doing a quick scan through your previous posts and I didn't see much in the way of you adding anything of substance to any topic you've posted in.
I glad you were able to amuse yourself.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:45 PM   #179
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It takes me 3-4 minutes of the main to calm down. My knees shake so bad I'll shake the whole drivers stand at the start of a main. Just excitment.
one of my sparring partners is like that, when we race on one of the tracks that we set up a rostrom and were standing on scaffold boards he used to almost shake the people either side off the rostrom unbelievable, worst i ever got was in london at the model engineers expo lots of good drivers there jukka, dave spash, and others i was so nervous i came off the drivers stand with mega cramps and back pain from being so tense while racing thankfully i dont do that anymore age has its benefits
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:46 PM   #180
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I glad you were able to amuse yourself.
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