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Old 01-21-2008, 08:14 AM   #31
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The dyno doesnt lie..the 367 makes less power then other .21's...just like the 421 makes more power then other .21's..... ask anyone who owns both a 367 and a 421 which one makes more power ! I was told the same thing about the 21-7 we bought, that the dyno meant nothing..... But we went and bought a 21-7 and its dyno figures were dead on the money... the Nova 21-7 is signifigantly weaker then the Picco P7 EVO2, and you can feel it when you drive the two motors back to back... IMHO the 21-7 is way way overated and a total waste of money for the performance it delivers in Truggy applications .We were assured the low dyno results meant nothing before we dropped $400.00 on the 21-7... and guess what ??? we were lied to, the dyno results told the story clear as day...... It dynoes low, and its easily outpowered by motors that that dyno higher... So unless the 367 has some magic I am going to bet a Picco P7R eats up the 367 just as easily as it eats up the 21-7.....Anyways I will buy a bloody 367 and it better live up to the hype you guys are creating around it...as i'll tell you right now the Nova 21-7 truly is nowhere near the top of the class of .21's as far as power and torque are concerned...its a bloody dud with output similar to a mid level sport .21.. Now also I will say I do not run on conventional hardpacked tracks, all our tracks are pretty much loose soil and dirt, so it really requires a motor with some balls...and if a motor is down on power its quickly exposed in our conditions.....So far the 21-7 is not able to hang with the torquer Picco,OS and Ninja engines..




I also having more power doesnt always relate to being faster on the ground, as there are too many factors involved in ground speed, especially on slippery hard packed tracks most people run on, where big HP likely hurts more then it helps ...I am going to be learning to drive buggy this year, so I actually need a milder engine to learn with, the 367 sure seems like an ideal candidate to me....
If you want more power, drop the 9901 for the 9853 or 9886 pipe set. The 9901 is 3 chamber and is the LEGAL pipe for EU. I ran mine on TQ 30% with the .10mm shim removed after a gallon. Funny thing is, a friend with an EVO 2was thinking of getting one after seeing it run at the track. But I do say to use this engine for a medium to large track, where it best suited for. When the HSN is tuned right, it pulls on the straights.
If you really like the S421, they do live on, but under another name with some upgrades and are still available.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:29 AM   #32
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If you want more power, drop the 9901 for the 9853 or 9886 pipe set. The 9901 is 3 chamber and is the LEGAL pipe for EU. I ran mine on TQ 30% with the .10mm shim removed after a gallon. Funny thing is, a friend with an EVO 2was thinking of getting one after seeing it run at the track. But I do say to use this engine for a medium to large track, where it best suited for. When the HSN is tuned right, it pulls on the straights.
If you really like the S421, they do live on, but under another name with some upgrades and are still available.

The only way I can see a 21-7 running with a P7 is your running on ultra slick hardpack surfaces...offer each motor traction and the P7 is a monster next to the 21-7, so much so we cannot run a P7R in a Buggy, its just too much motor.... We run the P7EVO in Truggy where its excessive power can be harnessed properly...On the other hand I would not dare to run the 21-7 in a Truggy in our conditions..... Slippery track on the other hand I can see the mild 21-7 hooking up and working quite well, as your aceleration is limited by traction not engine power......Too much engine can be slower then not enough engine, and the true magic formula is having the right amounrt of engine for the traction available...The dyno will tell you which motor make more HP and torque, but it wont tell you which motor matches the racing surface the best.... The latest Nova's seem detuned to run on loose slippery tracks, which is why they dyno so low, yet work so well on the slick tracks... Come up here where we must run badland tires and you'll see the limitations of the newer gen .21's..those big heavy weighted cranks suck the bottom end out of these motors and cause then to really suffer in our high traction deep dirt........ Out here a P7R will truly rip the paint off a 21-7, there is a gigantic difference in torque output between the two engines....
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:37 AM   #33
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well i passed on this motor,to many issues
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:36 PM   #34
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I have done allot of testing with standard plugs only and found here in Australia the engine is real stubborn with the wrong plug.

In temperatures under 30 degrees C i have found the 6 plug to be perfect, over 30 degrees C i have found the 7 plug is needed. We have not ran the engine in extreme cold yet (below 15 degrees C) but i believe a 6 is needed.

Also i have found this engine (compared to an Axe Rossi Cobra who i was running for before Switching to Novarossi) likes the down low set slightly richer than normal, but does not mind if the HSN is lean...

If you do get this engine and experience any problems, just post here and i will be more than happy to help you. Unfortunately i live in Australia so my Carb settings will be different, but i will try to help
I've never found it stubbon to start and I'd agree with the plug choice (Am from Australia too). The thing I cannot get over is that you run it a tad rich on the HSN to keey the temp around 110 degrees C the damn thing flames out after 1/3 of a tank, run the HSN in a bit and it goes the whole tank but runs at a whoppung 160 degrees C Having said that it hauls at that needle setting - shame it would blow up damn fast if I kept doing that!

Anyone with the secret on stopping flame out whilst keeping the damn thing even slightly cool - please share!
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:26 AM   #35
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I have run mine constantly without any issues. I noticed the bottom needle to be very sensitive. Mine will flame if you have the bottom needle set wrong. Mine was turned in 2 hours on the LSN and it would shutoff after decel. Brought it out and it was fine. Lean the HSN and it will scream the more you lean it. I also run #6 glowplugs, not #7.
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:47 AM   #36
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You are right, they are really sensitive, much more so than the OS engines! The only think that concerns me is the high heat when I start leaning out the HSN of around 330 degrees F - it seems way too high - I rich it up and it flames out after a couple of minutes
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:20 AM   #37
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You need to richen the lsn to get the temps down and keep it running correctly.
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:46 AM   #38
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okay I re-read what I posted earlier and I feel i was too harsh.....So please allow me to re-word what I posted...

for the money they are charging the 367 and the 21-7 are not up to the standard you would expect.. Both motors are very very picky to tune on the low end, they both do not produce very much power, and they are very prone to flameouts if the tune isn't 100% spot on......... For a premier race engines these 2 motors are very disappointing.....My buddies 367 did get good mileage, it matched my modified C6 in run time, but the power and RPM difference was huge...the 367 is very very tame....

Last edited by Maximo; 03-05-2008 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:12 AM   #39
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these 367 motors are junk...at the Canadian Nationals there were several running...My buddies kept flaming out and even when tuned the motor is a total dog......... Novarossi needs to produce some better motors...21-7 was a dud and the 367 is junk.. and the prices are way out of line for an engine series that runs like a low quality RTR engine
OUCH!!! I too was thinking about this mill, but after reading this thread i think i'll keep with my v-specs..all around great info on this mill though.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:28 AM   #40
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these 367 motors are junk...at the Canadian Nationals there were several running...My buddies kept flaming out and even when tuned the motor is a total dog......... Novarossi needs to produce some better motors...21-7 was a dud and the 367 is junk.. and the prices are way out of line for an engine series that runs like a low quality RTR engine
Mine is running good and 1 hour race was no problem.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:27 AM   #41
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user error !!
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:28 AM   #42
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these 367 motors are junk...at the Canadian Nationals there were several running...My buddies kept flaming out and even when tuned the motor is a total dog......... Novarossi needs to produce some better motors...21-7 was a dud and the 367 is junk.. and the prices are way out of line for an engine series that runs like a low quality RTR engine
I have seen these motors mentioned at my local track. The 367 and 21-7BT. No one has any issues with them or flameouts when tuned correctly. I have seen every brand engine flameout. OS, Ninja, Novarossi, etc. It has always been a tuning issue, or a worn out engine. I have seen OS Speeds flame out in a Amain and people trying to restart them. Also there is a thread going on about the EB VSpec now with issues of incorrect bearing or sleeve installed or of premature engine failure in both regular and EB version. All in all, seems to be the same thing people are talking about here with the 367.
The higher tuned engines take more precise tuning to get them right.
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:08 AM   #43
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I have seen these motors mentioned at my local track. The 367 and 21-7BT. No one has any issues with them or flameouts when tuned correctly. I have seen every brand engine flameout. OS, Ninja, Novarossi, etc. It has always been a tuning issue, or a worn out engine. I have seen OS Speeds flame out in a Amain and people trying to restart them. Also there is a thread going on about the EB VSpec now with issues of incorrect bearing or sleeve installed or of premature engine failure in both regular and EB version. All in all, seems to be the same thing people are talking about here with the 367.
The higher tuned engines take more precise tuning to get them right.

I was too harsh earlier, I agree having a perfect tune will will likely solve any issues, but these guys running these motors are not having issues tuning any other engines...they both run Ninja,RB and OS mills... these are both well heeled racers with a broad selection of engines to compare against..... I watched on Sunday a A-Main runner have his 367 flame out 3 times inthe main... this is a A-Main driver at the Canadian Nationals so he is not a rookie who cannot tune.... He obviously didnt have a a perfect tune but that reflects that these are a picky engine to tune..... And when they are fullly tuned they are not overly strong runners, they are on the lower end of the output scale of current race .21's... the 367 did get crazy mileage for a stock motor and so did the 21-7.... in fact they are about the most efficient stock .21's i have seen run...but they sacrifice power and tuning window to deliver the mileage...... At the Nationals I checked out every engine I could and how much fuel it used in the 6 minute qualifiers... The Nova's are killer on fuel...but other then that I don't see too many other characteristics that would make me drop that kind of coin....

Edit.. I can see the soft powerband being effective on very loose slippery track surfaces, the weighted cranks do spool up smoother and slower which translates into less wheelspin...... but on high traction tracks these motors do not carry very much pop

Edit I also run very trick modified engines that make power that most racers are not used too, at the nationals I let several racers try a few of my rides only to have them find my mills too overwhelming to properly wheel...But there were other racers who really liked the feel of a motor with pop and were able make use of the higher output.... It all comes down to driver preference and driving style and track surface... I race on dirt tracks and my motors need to make huge power, but on the clay my motors can be overwhelming... I was amazed how little power is needed on a Blue Groove type track.... But I was also just as surprised how much stronger my mills were then everyone else's....
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:24 AM   #44
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I was too harsh earlier, I agree having a perfect tune will will likely solve any issues, but these guys running these motors are not having issues tuning any other engines...they both run Ninja,RB and OS mills... these are both well heeled racers with a broad selection of engines to compare against..... I watched on Sunday a A-Main runner have his 367 flame out 3 times inthe main... this is a A-Main driver at the Canadian Nationals so he is not a rookie who cannot tune.... He obviously didnt have a a perfect tune but that reflects that these are a picky engine to tune..... And when they are fullly tuned they are not overly strong runners, they are on the lower end of the output scale of current race .21's... the 367 did get crazy mileage for a stock motor and so did the 21-7.... in fact they are about the most efficient stock .21's i have seen run...but they sacrifice power and tuning window to deliver the mileage...... At the Nationals I checked out every engine I could and how much fuel it used in the 6 minute qualifiers... The Nova's are killer on fuel...but other then that I don't see too many other characteristics that would make me drop that kind of coin....

Edit.. I can see the soft powerband being effective on very loose slippery track surfaces, the weighted cranks do spool up smoother and slower which translates into less wheelspin...... but on high traction tracks these motors do not carry very much pop

Edit I also run very trick modified engines that make power that most racers are not used too, at the nationals I let several racers try a few of my rides only to have them find my mills too overwhelming to properly wheel...But there were other racers who really liked the feel of a motor with pop and were able make use of the higher output.... It all comes down to driver preference and driving style and track surface... I race on dirt tracks and my motors need to make huge power, but on the clay my motors can be overwhelming... I was amazed how little power is needed on a Blue Groove type track.... But I was also just as surprised how much stronger my mills were then everyone else's....
I hate the Plus cranks. I actuully compared mine to a P5X and it looked like it had less timing. I have since swapped cranks for testing and it became a monster. I will be testing it again as I threw the stock back in for comparison. It runs fine and doesn't shutoff unless you have the LSN needle wrong.
From what I have seen, it appears they made this engine so it uses all the fuel mixture out of the case on each stroke. If you make the LSN too lean, it flames out. Once the LSN is fine, start leaning the HSN needle. It will then start to come alive.
By the way, I had the same issue with a Ninja .28 last week. Would flame out till the LSN was correct. You had to put it on the ground to tune & test it. Seemed fine off the ground. Once you it on the floor, it would flameout. Its been running fine since then. Temps about 240 on the track during racing.
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Old 03-05-2008, 11:35 AM   #45
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I hate the Plus cranks. I actaully compared mine to a P5X and it looked like it had less timing. I have since swapped cranks for testing and it became a monster. I will be testing it again as I threw the stock back in for comparison. It runs fine and doesn't shutoff unless you have the LSN needle wrong.
From what I have seen, it appears they made this engine so it uses all the fuel mixture out of the case on each stroke. If you make the LSN too lean, it flames out. Once the LSN is fine, start leaning the HSN needle. It will then start to come alive.
By the way, I had the same issue with a Ninja .28 last week. Would flame out till the LSN was correct. You had to put it on the ground to tune & test it. Seemed fine off the ground. Once you it on the floor, it would flameout. Its been running fine since then. Temps about 240 on the track during racing.
I have seen Ninja's be picky...but it was almost always from people trying to run either cold plugs, or non Ninja plugs, or fuel with too much oil and not a hot enough element.....But its always from outside circumstance as its not a general trait of this engine....

either way I will be modifying a few of these Nova's and most likely will correct any tuning or flameout issues they are having....I will report back once i have some time testing and tuning this mill with my own hands.... I am currently basing what I say off what I see at the tracks with others tuning the engine, and their feedback to me about the engine as compared tothe other mills they own and run... Most racers up here do own a good variety of good engines.... I may end up changing my opinion later down the road, but as it stands right now I do not find the current Nova engines to be overly impressive...
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