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Old 12-05-2007, 02:32 PM   #31
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Default I went a step further with mine

I bought the Nanda and have had no problems with it. Running dragsters it isn't that easy to break in one in the car so I went to a bench instead. Added an rpm sensor,temp loop and servo to mine. Wrote a little control program for it and I can even use it over my home network. Go out start up the motor then head back in the house for the peace and quiet and lack of fumes. Another way I found to instrument the thing is to use one of the Spektrum on board telemetry units. I had one I used with my sprint car so I hooked that up one day and except for the working over the net part it was just as effective. Next step is to create a program that will hold the motor at a pre set temp and rpm range. I also made up a heater from a tin can and an old heating element I scrounged out of a hair dryer. The prop puts out a lot of air and its hard sometimes to get the motor up to temp without the heater. Usually only use the heating element to warm up the motor at first and maybe through the first tank when its super rich and hard to get up to temp. Then its just a wind break essentially. I started working on this trying to build a inertial dyno. But I found out the wheel was going to cost me an arm and a leg and the housing to contain that puppy should it come loose was going to cost even more so I blew it off. Been using the computerized bench though and its been putting out great motors. I used the Phidget servo controller as well but used a microprocessor develoment kit instead of a pc to run it. Phidget makes some pressure transducers that make a nice balancing station as well. One under each wheel. A lot less expensive than the commercial units. If you know how to write code.

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Old 12-05-2007, 02:52 PM   #32
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Griz, can you post some pictures? That sounds really awesome.
I was thinking about making a dyno also. I found a link that shows you how to do this for really small motors. It uses a CD for the flywheel.
I would not think it would cost very much for the flywheel we would need though. I would think one about the size of a harmonic balancer would do it.

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Old 12-06-2007, 01:30 PM   #33
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PIcs of our set-up....ghetto it may be...but its sturdy..allows for easy hook up to our ventilation..and when on the table its purfect height to run...and the white stuff is 1211...to keep everything air tight...cuz those coupler's Always leak.






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Old 12-06-2007, 02:12 PM   #34
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Thanks for posting the pictures.

Which starter do you use?

Do you like the Jammin engine?
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:18 PM   #35
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a plane prop starter
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:22 PM   #36
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Default I'll see if I can find some pics

I had some pics of the stand but I'm not sure where they are. I'll have to find them. Yea a flywheel dyno was what I wanted to build as well. You can search on the snowmobile sites for a lot of information. The flywheel has to be high dollar material and machined perfectly balanced for it to work. Other wise at the rpm these motors turn it will tear itself up. Also with that much weight spinning that fast there is a lot of kinetic energy there so if something does happen to the wheel you are in big trouble unless you have something around the wheel that it won't penetrate. They do fly apart from time to time. One of the AA Funny Car drivers on the NHRA circuit told me how to build one. He has a really nice one but then again he also has a full machine shop and qualified people to do the work. He races boats when he's not driving the funny car. Slot car drag racing is also very popular amongst the NHRA crowd. Our club puts up a booth at the Springnationals in San Antonio each year. Its amazing how many of the real drivers come over to check out the R/C versions. Always end up getting some excellent pit tours etc when we go. I had an electric Funny car and a nitro top fuel rail and pro mod last time I went. They were all hits with the big boys.

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Old 12-06-2007, 03:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Joe Brown View Post
Thanks for posting the pictures.

Which starter do you use?

Do you like the Jammin engine?


i got a Torqmaster 180 prop starter....does the trick nicely....still havent found a motor that it wont turn over with Ease.......and as for the motor...seeing as its a Picco P7 evo2 with a differnt color scheme and badges...its gonna do the trick in my 8T for sure...its also been tweeked by a buddy aka Maximus who's in Kahoots with Colt of ABMods who has been putting down the Most Impressive Dyno #'s EVER...ill be racing it this saturday at the FHF WOR series at Fergus Falls...should be a Blast...I cant wait.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:21 PM   #38
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Default Here you go








Took these before I finished up the cylinder heater. I simply mounted the heating element on top of the can with a small fan on top. The fan is DC so I can reverse it to get rid of heat as well.

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Old 12-06-2007, 03:30 PM   #39
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Interesting Griz....too many wires and stuff to set-up for me tho...i have to be able to transport my bench as i dont have a Permanent home for it...cuz my shop is in my basement....and my Big shop is downtown and i just set it on a table and hook up the vent hose...but i do like the servo'ized part of ur rig..i cant say its very much fun sitting there for 5-10 tanks of fuel...Specially on these new Race .21's that run for 14-18min on the stand.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:58 PM   #40
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Awesome stand. Does the torqmaster 90 have enough to start any .21 engine?

I just bought the tower hobbies version which I think is the same as the torqmaster 90.

Is the laptop showing the telemetry information? If so, how does the telemetry measure RPMs?

Here is a link for building an RPM gauge from a mouse. It uses a CD for a flywheel. There should be a way to scale this up without too much danger. I noticed the EB Mods dyno does not appear to have a cover.

http://www.sci-spot.com/Mechanical/dyno.htm

http://www.ebmods.com/images/ebdyno2.jpg
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:51 PM   #41
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Integra,

Where did you get the prop adapter?
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:54 PM   #42
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Integra,

Where did you get the prop adapter?

u can actually buy it separatly from RD...check there website and ull find it no problems.


u need 3 parts

CP4701 12$
Propeller Nut


CP4702 8$
Propeller


CP4703 10$
Propeller Collar
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:30 PM   #43
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Default Novarossi sells one too

Novarossi sells a prop kit for their engines. At least they used too. Lots of people put them in a vise to break them in. Take a couple of old motor mounts and mount them on a piece of aluminum and mount the motor to that. Put it in the vise and you are good to go. I wouldn't put just the engine in a vise however. You'll have to squeeze it too tightly and could distort the crankcase enough to cause a problem.

Actually there are just 3 servo type wires coming from the bench. They all plug into an Eagle tree data system. That software running on the laptop is theirs with the addition of that slider in the top left hand corner which I wrote to control the throttle servo. Its just a hack of the software that comes with the phidget controller. I had to quit racing due to health reasons so I never did finish it. I wanted to make it autonomous. By having the temp gauge and rpm it would be fairly easy to write program that would interpret a profile and do the break in itself. Then you could break in motors the same way every time. And you have the data so if you happen to get one that is really a bad mofo then you can possibly repeat that process for another motor and come up with another perfect break in.

I'm always messing with something computer related. Took a programmable logic controller and made an electronic starting gate out of that. Its in Denver at Rat Raceway. Does 1 second 3 second and all drop modes by hitting a button on the control box in the timing shed. I had full telemetry on my rail dragster. Exhaust gas temp 2 temp loops rpm in 2 places radio glitches Rx power and I was trying to figure out a way to do a mixture sensor.

When I was working I used to do quite a bit of data acquisition, robotics pretty much anything but bean counting. I had some fun projects. One at BFG tires was probably the most fun. They have an 8 mile perfect circle test track out in the middle of nowhere in west Texas. I did a program for them to test tires on the skid pad. They wanted their tires to give plenty of warning before they started skidding. The program read a bunch of sensors on a trailer equipped with a massive truck brake. You put the test tire on that hub ran down the skid pad at up to 100 mph and slammed on the brakes. It was a blast testing that one

The rpm sensor is a hall effect ic with a magnet on the hub behind the prop. I switched over to optical sensors like the ones in the spektrum unit. They are much easier to deal with. Its very hard to get those magnets to stick on the flywheel. You have to put in a little hole for them to sit down in so they will stay stuck. Too much trouble when the optical units only require you to stick a stripe on the flywheel or whatever you are trying to measure. Of course the optimum would be a etched glass disk with a laser diode to read it. Then you could see the variations in rpm much better. Even detecting a variation as the piston comes up on TDC. You need a minimum of two pulses per rpm more is better. The disks are usually 1024 or 2048 pulses per revolution so you see its a much finer look at whats going on.

The mouse rpm gauges are actually an optical disk. I had a buddy in Colorado that used them as part of his drive system for a telescope he had. It wasn't as accurate as the commercial systems but it got you in the ballpark. Those disks are very simple and accurate. Especially if the disk is encoded. Then you can also tell which way the motor is turning.

Griz
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:21 AM   #44
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my bench looks basically the same as griz's, except I mounted my servo on the other side beside the fuel tank, and I dont have all the telemetry stuff, I dont know how to do any programming so I just use the software in the link from my other post,

for yours do you have to manually adjust the thottle to get it to pulse the throttle or does it pulse the servo on its own? the software I'm using pulsese the throttle on its own, which was the part I really liked because I could fire the engine up, start the program, and then go back and wrench on my cars, the engine shuts off on its own and then has a timer that you can set to different intervals for a cool down period, then a buzzer goes off to tell you the cool down period is over and its time to fire it up again for the next cycle,
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Old 12-08-2007, 08:54 AM   #45
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Default Mine was very simple

I just had a graphic slider on a panel to work the throttle. It talked to the phidget controller via usb. Had I continued to work on it something similar to what you are talking about is where I was heading. Except I wanted to have the throttle position run to a profile and also be able to adjust on its own to keep the temp in a certain range. The profile would be what rpm to run the motor and what temp range you wanted for each tank. So all you would have to do is fill it up and start it again when the cool down period was over. The program would go onto the next section of the profile and run the next tank with those settings. I wanted to integrate the heater element and fan into the mix as well so I could regulate the temp that was in addition to the throttle setting. Not that hard to do really. With something like visual basic that is interrupt driven from the get go. You just set up a loop to get the sensor data make a decision and then output the new settings if they change. The loop just runs forever unless its broken by say lack of rpm indicating its out of fuel or has died.

Now I've gotten into making videos. It takes up all my time so I haven't messed with the R/C stuff in months. Still waiting on Novarossi to export their bike motors to the states so I can finish up my Ducati. Its finished except for a motor. The TTR motor had a bearing problem and I don't want to fix that one. I'd rather wait on the Nova. I'm going to break it in on the bench. If I have time maybe I'll mess with the software a bit. It wouldn't take long actually. I once had an observatory in my backyard. Computer controlled scope and a video imaging rig that was in the 8K range. I wrote software for that so I could sit in the house nice and warm and use the telescope. I had to go out and open up the dome and calibrate everything. Once that was done and it only took 15 minutes or so I could go back inside until it was time to close up shop. That software monitored a lot more than is necessary to do a break in bench. Interrupts are awesome. You write a routine to service each interrupt you use and the OS takes care of the rest. Its a little weird when you first get started. There doesn't look like there is enough code to do anything. But it works.

Well its time to head over to Austin to video the trophy race at n-control. Not looking too good weather wise. I have some new goodies on my camera rig to try out hope it stays dry.

Griz
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