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Old 11-28-2007, 06:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Reznor88 View Post
Well said damo666...

Like I said b4, all the pro buggies currently on the market are good - you simply can't go wrong.

The biggest mistake you can make is listening to people DOMIT who critique every little minute detail. They also think they know everything.

Have an open mind, grab a competition level buggy and GO RACING!

1/8 Scale Buggy Racing is for men.... whiners like DOMIT don't belong.
X2 also 99% of the time when you get beat you know why after you get good enough (doesnt mean that you have to be at the point you are beating the locals either) and driving mistakes arent the cars fault lol. all the cars mentioned here can win. biggest questions i would have is over parts and general up keep. If you like your race car no matter what it is that is all that matters. if you like it you are more apt to work with it and set it up.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:24 PM   #17
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You forgot to mention the HYPER 8.5 PRO ... awesome value for the money, and kick ass on the track ...

cya,
I owned a hyper 8 pro and sold it after one week of racing, couldn't stand to look at it, very cheap parts quality.

Value - more for your money. There is NEVER true value in RC, if it costs less, you get less. If it costs more there is a reason.

I Honda Accord is cheaper than a BMW 3 series, can you guess why??????? bottom line, if you are a car enthousiast, the honda accord is simply not as good, parts quality and overall performance are not the same.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:27 PM   #18
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one problem with the losi 8 vs. associated is that the parts (even basic necessities like the losi clutch shoes) are in stock when it makes sense for horizon hobby's cash flow situation, not when it makes sense for horizon hobby's local hobby shop dealers and committed racers.

Associated seems to be doing a better job of maintaining a steady supply of critical parts lately.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:41 PM   #19
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here is a quote from the Mugen MBX5R forum comparing the longevity of parts on the losi 8 to that of the Mugen MBX5R

me and my buddy who races an 8 did our winter put away clean up together. my parts wear in my drive line after a whole season was less than his after 2 weekends (he replaced the front drive shaft) and all of his plastic had alot more wear (mine ran a month longer at the begining of the season his ran 2 weekends after i quit for the year) mine still doesnt have pin slop or suspension wiggle not even close and another thing he discovered was his chassis was twisted lol. i have gone through 20 bucks in clutch shoes, 4 in shock ends and 15 in new rear a arms (they werent broken but were slightly tweaked) oh and 4 bucks for a cvd pin i forgot to tighten up lol i went threw a set of shock boots only to go with schock socks as well. the R doesnt really need hop ups to be competitive. i lightened mine but to be honest i cant say it actually made the car faster as to the thing that really matters...the track clock lol. my friend has spent more in center diff cases and drive train parts than i have on any up keep/broken parts and a chassis and all new plastic he has me blown away, 3 sets of clutch shoes, aluminum chassis braces and so forth he has spent more on total cost too. he is faster than me however but he was even more so when he had a prospec lol

Mugen MBX5R


having owned the 8 on multiple occasions, I can attest to the weakness of the parts quality on that buggy, front end slop, throttle servo mysteries (even with all of the fixes including hop up parts and approriate M11 EPA adjustment), center drive line quick wear are some specific examples.

I don't have experience with parts quality on the RC8 but just looking at it, its looks more solid than the 8.

Here is a great article on top line 1/8th scale buggies:


http://www.rc-car.com/ME2/dirmod.asp...C42CA09BC6D9AD

These guys did a great job of using real information and quantitative, rational data versus the B.S. that makes little sense that you typically get when asking Mr. RC knowitalls that are prevelant and typically the spokesmen for this sport - P.s. if we want it to grow, we better stop referring to it as a hobby. knitting is a hobby, sewing is a hobby, model railroading is a hobby, painting with watercolors is a hobby, woodburning is a hobby, whittling is a hobby, racing is a SPORT!

I would say go for the Associated, at least you won't have to change your decals any time soon, losi will soon be changed to Horizon racing now that there is no one with the last name losi left. Face it the dynasty is at risk in the team losi camp (I'm saying that and I currently am running a losi JRXS Type r).
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
Hmmm... buggy looks good... but...

Small, tight track (where the RC8 and Losi really shine!)

VERY smooth track, and not many jumps... small jumps at that... NO rythm section?

Looks like it had good traction (the track I mean...) How does it do on loose tracks? How about in the rythm sections (whoops, etc?)

Locally we have an outdoor track (traction varies DRAMTICALLY with moisture content) and an indoor track that is a bit larger than that one. They tend to have more "features." (jumps, elevation changes, etc.) The indoor track is usually reasonably smooth... the outdoor one gets rutted and bumpy of course.

Every top line buggy is versatile, they are offroad vehicles and the nature of offroad racing is changes, indoors, outdoors, moisture, no moisture, whether your vehicle is good in varying conditions has NOTHING to do with the conditions and everything to do with your tire selection (the most important setup option that most people talk very little about and often neglect), your chassis/suspension/clutch/engine selection, and your personal ability level.

Good advice for the club racer - don't overthink the setup and focus on having the right tires, in good condition. After that, its not the cars fault. No matter what the Mr. RC's gurus at the track tell you, 1mm washers, a shim here or ther, 1mm of ride height etc. etc. etc. (especially in offroad racing - lots of variability) and especially when they are talking about personally modified parts or other "homemade" "solutions" to perceived problems, you will drive yourself crazy and likely not realize any concrete gains (e.g. where it matters, on the RCSCORINGPRO time sheet). Use your head, think for yourself and if you really want technical setup advice, call the manufacturer of your vehicle and ask to talk to an engineer or a technical person. I can tell you from experience that my favorite company, Mugen Seiki (Mugen Racing, USA) have always provided very very professional help. Clear, consise, technically sound explainations to my questions, not b.s. like, "it will be more "progressive" if you make this change, what the hell does that mean - i'll tell you what it means, it means the person telling you that has absolutely no idea what the He** that change really does.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:02 PM   #21
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I agree reznor 88, people who want to ball about track conditions and this buggy vs. that buggy indoor vs. outdoor whaaa whaaaa whaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Get lionel train set, the tracks never change!
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:05 PM   #22
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i will get the losi because it is more duable and my lhs carries mose of the parts for it

the rc8 is lighter and jumps bestter but still
i will take the losi 8ight

good luck
cya
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:29 PM   #23
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i used to run a losi 8 and it was a good buggy but i just broke the weirdest stuff on it randomly. Ever since i switched to the xray i haven't broke a part in 7gallons on the chassis and several of our guys down here have picked up the rc8's and ive drove most and they seemed strong. haven't seen one break yet. All i know is my losi broke and my xray docent.
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznor88 View Post
Well said damo666...

Like I said b4, all the pro buggies currently on the market are good - you simply can't go wrong.

The biggest mistake you can make is listening to people DOMIT who critique every little minute detail. They also think they know everything.

Have an open mind, grab a competition level buggy and GO RACING!

1/8 Scale Buggy Racing is for men.... whiners like DOMIT don't belong.
Hey Reznor... how exactly is asking you a series of questions WHINING? I asked how the buggy does in certain circumstances and explained the difference in the track in your video and where I run... that's WHINING?

Maybe you should re-read my post.
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:48 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by thewholeyearinn View Post
I agree reznor 88, people who want to ball about track conditions and this buggy vs. that buggy indoor vs. outdoor whaaa whaaaa whaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Get lionel train set, the tracks never change!
How the buggy responds to different track conditions is an important part of how the car does in racing. If it is great on smooth, high traction tracks (like the Losi) but not as good when it is loose and dusty, that can be a big factor. Of course ANY buggy does better in better track conditions... some just seem to handle the less optimum conditions better, and some require less changes for different conditions. You should have seen all the changes "chasing the setup" that folks were making at the RC Pro Finals as the track changed.

Perhaps I'm wrong (I THINK I understand the use of the English language fairly well) but I don't believe I said anything negative. I simply noted the difference in track type and asked how the RC8 does in the conditions that I run in. I run the Losi, I like the Losi, I'm aware of the issues with parts wear... I have never driven an RC8.

I started with an OFNA 9.5, then went to an MBX5 Prospec, and now have the Losi. The OFNA was loose and untameable, not a competition-level car by any means. NOTHING seemed to make that car driveable. My bud with an Xray told me that was the loosest car he had ever driven. The Mugen was a great car, very stable and forgiving, but it pushed like a dump truck, no matter what I did to it to try to make it steer better. (I admit I didn't follow the suggestion one of the local folks made about adding some weight to the front- it was already a heavy car!) It also had great quality, unlike the OFNA. Not quite as good as the Xray, but probably better than anything else out there... however... Changing from the Mugen to the Losi was like trading an axe for a scalpel. Very precise... but... it will give a false sense of confidence, and if you push it, it bites you.

I understand that the RC8 is similar. Lots of steering, very responsive. Very light also. The questions still stand though... how does it do in the rythm sections? How does it do over BIG jumps? How about on a rutted, blown-out track? A loose, dusty track? For those of you who don't understand the difference, those are QUESTIONS. Not whining, not saying the car DOESN'T do well. An answer rather than a juvenile flaming session would be appreciated.
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:59 AM   #26
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DOMIT said, "Hey Reznor... how exactly is asking you a series of questions WHINING? I asked how the buggy does in certain circumstances and explained the difference in the track in your video and where I run... that's WHINING?

Maybe you should re-read my post."
+1

If someone is merely trying to bring up some points to consider in a given scenario, they are just being thorough and/or Honest. Different buggy designs excel in different conditions.

debate a person's points if you must, but don't attack them personally just because you won't bother to argue/refute the relevance of the points they are bringing up.
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:00 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by DOMIT View Post
I understand that the RC8 is similar. Lots of steering, very responsive. Very light also. The questions still stand though... how does it do in the rythm sections? How does it do over BIG jumps? How about on a rutted, blown-out track? A loose, dusty track? For those of you who don't understand the difference, those are QUESTIONS. Not whining, not saying the car DOESN'T do well. An answer rather than a juvenile flaming session would be appreciated.
I have the RC8 personally. Like you, I left from an OFNA, namely the Hyper 7. I had a hard time with that car. It didn't matter what I did, it just wouldn't settle for nothing.

The RC8 on the other hand, essentially right out of the box, handles like it's on rails. Very similar in a lot of areas to my B4 (which is nice considering I'm more experienced with 1/10 electric ) It handles big jumps well, and flies well through the air, and seems to be very responsive to throttle. Rhythm sections seem to be no major issue as I've never had any issues with it getting really upset. When it has tried to get sideways, all I need to do is let off the throttle a touch and it settles right back down. There's not much in reality that will upset it except my bad driving
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:05 AM   #28
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The OFNA was loose and untameable, not a competition-level car by any means. NOTHING seemed to make that car driveable. My bud with an Xray told me that was the loosest car he had ever driven.
I had the same exact experience with the OFNA 9.5 (Hong Nor predecessor to the Jammin'), DOMIT...

LOL

It drove like a pig (Or, at least, I drove it like a pig)! Great basher, terrible racer by today's standards...
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:11 AM   #29
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thewholeyearin...

Deja Vu? Do we need to repeat the discussion we had on the other thread here again?

looking fora new buggy

Remember, I'm always here to help if you need me.

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Old 11-29-2007, 08:17 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by playboy View Post
i will get the losi because it is more duable and my lhs carries mose of the parts for it

the rc8 is lighter and jumps bestter but still
i will take the losi 8ight

good luck
cya
I don't know that saying the Losi is more durable is correct. It wears parts more rapidly than some of the other "competition-level" buggies. Specifically, the center diff case, and the front center CVA specifically. Be prepared to maintain this car properly!!!! It doesn't so much break easily as wears quickly. You have to pay to play!

Other things that I have found: The front top plate (stock plastic) is a weak point... they will crack around the screw holes for the steering posts. Fortunately the package of the top plate and chassis brace is only like $4.
The rear center CVA is a bit short, it can pop out. Shim the CVA forward on the pinion shaft with some clutch shims... just a tiny bit helps a lot! DO NOT just "set" it forward and leave slop in the pinion gear- it will chew up the ring and pinion. It has to be shimmed so there is no slop.

One of the folks mentioned parts availability. I haven't found that to be a problem, but the are a couple of things to be aware of. The clutch with 2 plastic shoes and 2 carbon shoes seems to be a problem. The plastic leaves residue on the clutch bell, and the aluminum shoes don't grab as well then. I personally run a Mugen flywheel, Mugen aluminum shoes, Mugen springs, and a Losi clutch bell, and that works well. The Losi bell uses 2 different sizes of bearings... the front is the standard size that everyone uses, but the rear or "inner" bearing is different. If you buy the Losi ones they are $7 per pair (front and rear) but you can get the bearings from other suppliers for much less. I used Avid bearings, at $1 each. It is of course possible to run a more standard clutch bell too, like the Mugen, BUT, it requires some drama to get the engine moved forward to the point that it engages the spur gear properly.

Be prepared to keep a larger assortment of parts for the Losi... it doesn't use just 3 types of bearings (steering posts, clutch, and "everything else") like most buggies, so you will need more variety of spare bearings. The front center CVA wears quickly, better keep a spare. Same for the center diff case.

The nice thing is, Losi parts (other than the bearings) seem to be significantly less expensive than other "competition level" buggies... I think it pretty much is a wash for costs to maintain. You replace some things more often, but they cost less.
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