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Old 02-11-2008, 07:23 AM   #76
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if stock crank window is 10.73 MM and the JP is 9.89 MM then there is a massive timing difference. 12 degrees I believe ( which is massive) ..the other differences would account for next to zero difference in output....its all timing, 100% timing........... silicone ramp means nothing, window moved forward means nothing next to a 12 degree timing change.......

Trust me flow mods and crap like that do not add power to an engine, if a modded doest add timing he is not adding any power.....the difference your seeing is from timing and nothing else. re-time to stock crank to match the JP crank and it will run identical to the JP crank....all the other differences will add up to maybe 2% of the overall power difference at most !!
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:53 AM   #77
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if stock crank window is 10.73 MM and the JP is 9.89 MM then there is a massive timing difference. 12 degrees I believe ( which is massive) ..the other differences would account for next to zero difference in output....its all timing, 100% timing........... silicone ramp means nothing, window moved forward means nothing next to a 12 degree timing change.......

Trust me flow mods and crap like that do not add power to an engine, if a modded doest add timing he is not adding any power.....the difference your seeing is from timing and nothing else. re-time to stock crank to match the JP crank and it will run identical to the JP crank....all the other differences will add up to maybe 2% of the overall power difference at most !!
So flow has nothing to do with any power? Its all timing? You got to be kidding here. The stock crank has a smaller throat and center bore than a stock P5X crank. You would think this engine would have a larger crank port than a 5 port motor. The Jp crank added more timing, larger port opening, plus is lighter and reworked. If you read around, you'll find that some are dropping the 8.5 carb restrictor, as it needs more air to wake up. That I haven't tried yet. I have since dropped the stock crank back in to run again this week just make sure this is indeed chocking the engine.
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Old 02-11-2008, 08:09 AM   #78
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So flow has nothing to do with any power? Its all timing? You got to be kidding here. The stock crank has a smaller throat and center bore than a stock P5X crank. You would think this engine would have a larger crank port than a 5 port motor. The Jp crank added more timing, larger port opening, plus is lighter and reworked. If you read around, you'll find that some are dropping the 8.5 carb restrictor, as it needs more air to wake up. That I haven't tried yet. I have since dropped the stock crank back in to run again this week just make sure this is indeed chocking the engine.

crank bore changes can make a slight difference....... crank weight reduction is only an inertial effect, not really a power gain....the main gain in power is timing.......... Do all the mods you mentioned one at a time starting with crank lightening, then proceed to ramping the inlet, then to boring the crank........then lastly add timing....... my bet ( based off dyno testing) is the motor makes barely any increase in power till you add the timing.... and in fact just adding the timing to the stock crank will give you 95% of the power gained from the JP crank... all the other mods may account for a total of the 5% power that has been gained......... Of course unless something was critically wrong with the initial 367 design to begin with.....
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Old 02-11-2008, 03:58 PM   #79
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crank bore changes can make a slight difference....... crank weight reduction is only an inertial effect, not really a power gain....the main gain in power is timing.......... Do all the mods you mentioned one at a time starting with crank lightening, then proceed to ramping the inlet, then to boring the crank........then lastly add timing....... my bet ( based off dyno testing) is the motor makes barely any increase in power till you add the timing.... and in fact just adding the timing to the stock crank will give you 95% of the power gained from the JP crank... all the other mods may account for a total of the 5% power that has been gained......... Of course unless something was critically wrong with the initial 367 design to begin with.....
I personally felt the crank was too restrictive. Its bore is smaller than a P5 crank, the throat is also smaller, and if I'm not mistaken, the timing may be closed more also. Seems odd for a 7 port engine thats supposed to put out more power than a P5X. Also, I did notice a discrepancy in the Novarossi 367 webpage. They corrected this after I notified them about it. If you had ever looked at the Spec page, it had the 15012 crank listed, but the PDF part page has 15011. Also, they never displayed the crankshaft picture either. My 367 will spin up much faster than the P5X we have running now and is all out faster all around. The Eagle crank looks more like a 85011 or 85012 plus crank to me, not anywhere near a 15011.
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:10 PM   #80
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Adding some info on the 14.5mm cranks. The 359 & MLC 35 Plus 21 cranks will not drop in fit. The cranks pins are not the same between all three. If a 359 or MLC 35 plus 21 is used, I believe the con rod for that engine also has to be used to match the crank pin diameter. It appears the regular 35 plus 21 is a straight drop in right now in a 367.
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:43 PM   #81
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I think when the 367 came out it was supposed to compete with the V-spec on runtime. Maybe thats why the throat is smaller and other things you mentioned.

Maximo, I'm curios when modders change timing do they like to do it with the crank or sleeve or both?

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Old 02-16-2008, 10:30 PM   #82
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I think when the 367 came out it was supposed to compete with the V-spec on runtime. Maybe thats why the throat is smaller and other things you mentioned.

Maximo, I'm curios when modders change timing do they like to do it with the crank or sleeve or both?

Rex
99% of modded motors sold have zero timing alterations...just to make that clear.. I have purchased modded motors from almost every reputable modded and checked the timings against stock.. you would be suprised how stock most of these modded motors really are...even a so called drag modded mill from a big name modder had zero timing changes done to it...Now i am sure some modders somewhere do change timing on the motors, but i yet to see any hard evidence of any timing changes done by another modder ( 1 exception though, AB Mods)

by contrast I modify my engines almost strictly based off timing changes, all my motors have both sleeve and crank timing changes, as well as port shapes and entry angles altered, Some modders may shim the sleeve up inside the block to raise timing, I actually re-cut the sleeve ports to my own timing profiles.... and as a rule my motors are much stronger performers then what most people are used to seeing from a modded motor, Adam from AB also does full timing mods as well.........

the easiest way to tell if your sleeve timing has been changed is to check to see if the tops of your ports are still lined with chrome, or if the chrome has been cut away and the bare brass showing.......If the port is chrome the timing is stock, if the chrome is removed then the timing has been altered.... I have seen many modded motors sold to have timing changes still have full chrome lining in the ports... So if you have a modded mill and are curious whats been done take a look at the tops of the ports, it will tell you the whole story.........
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:12 PM   #83
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This last half of the page has me wondering. I can see both have a point on the cranks. I have always thought that the biggest net gains for a motors power would come from a change in the timing, but all other factors play a role as well. I do get the use of a lighter crank, it should spool up faster as it wieghs less. What I wonder here is why Rossi didn't go that route? The only thing I can come up with is that with a lighter crank in there it could make the motor's power feel like its on or off. Some guys like that feel and others don't, I guess its a pref. thing. I am learing alot on these motors and can't wait to run them. Thanks for all the info, keep it comming.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:27 PM   #84
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I don't have a 367 but I have the exhaust reducer. Is it supposed to go between the motor and manifold or manifold and pipe?

Rex
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:12 PM   #85
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I don't have a 367 but I have the exhaust reducer. Is it supposed to go between the motor and manifold or manifold and pipe?

Rex
Its stacked between the motor and header.
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:10 AM   #86
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What other heads fit a Nova Rossi? I looking at King Headz low pro.
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:07 PM   #87
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What other heads fit a Nova Rossi? I looking at King Headz low pro.
Yah im using king headz for my 367,wow turbo head for 367 looks intresting
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:17 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
99% of modded motors sold have zero timing alterations...just to make that clear.. I have purchased modded motors from almost every reputable modded and checked the timings against stock.. you would be suprised how stock most of these modded motors really are...even a so called drag modded mill from a big name modder had zero timing changes done to it...Now i am sure some modders somewhere do change timing on the motors, but i yet to see any hard evidence of any timing changes done by another modder ( 1 exception though, AB Mods)

by contrast I modify my engines almost strictly based off timing changes, all my motors have both sleeve and crank timing changes, as well as port shapes and entry angles altered, Some modders may shim the sleeve up inside the block to raise timing, I actually re-cut the sleeve ports to my own timing profiles.... and as a rule my motors are much stronger performers then what most people are used to seeing from a modded motor, Adam from AB also does full timing mods as well.........

the easiest way to tell if your sleeve timing has been changed is to check to see if the tops of your ports are still lined with chrome, or if the chrome has been cut away and the bare brass showing.......If the port is chrome the timing is stock, if the chrome is removed then the timing has been altered.... I have seen many modded motors sold to have timing changes still have full chrome lining in the ports... So if you have a modded mill and are curious whats been done take a look at the tops of the ports, it will tell you the whole story.........
could you explain the relationship between timing and duration, i thought timing was more to do with plug selection.
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:33 PM   #89
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He is talking about port timing. The point in the cranks rotation that the various different ports open and close at. Duration is the total time the ports are open.
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:08 PM   #90
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Wingracer , can you tell me what tools are used in engine modding ?.
What about plug selection on a modded motor , any links to info regarding engine mods and the modification process would be appreciated..
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