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Old 10-01-2007, 10:31 PM   #1
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Default Is modified engine any better than stock one?

Hi, all.

I am thinking to get a new engine for my hyper 8 pro kit. I currently run Picco P7R- Evo engine, but I want to try a new engine.

I have been reading posts and surfing the web, and have a question. Is modified engine like CEO, Hot, or JP really better than stock engine? Some people say that modified/tuned engines are better performance but have shorter usage time since its performance is peaked out. My friends say that JP racing engines are the best in the market, but the price seems to be very high. Are they worth the money?

The more research I do, the more headache I get.

Someone help me out plz?
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:36 PM   #2
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Personally, I don't see the benefit. On bigger tracks with a huge straight or two, it might be worth it, but for the racing I've done, the guys running the mod motors aren't running any faster laptimes (and usually slower) than guys with standard race motors.
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Old 10-01-2007, 10:44 PM   #3
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i run a stock novarossi p5 and i see no reason for a modded one. its more than enough for me
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Old 10-01-2007, 11:49 PM   #4
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Modded engine are tuned for performance, the benefits are Longer tank times, more power thruout the rev range so in reality you dont have to always use full throttle, you can set your EPA to less so you use less throttle and gain more run time. The engine is basicaly more efficient and therefore more economical.

Considering most engines only put out about 12% of what the engine could make because of , inertia, heat, rotating mass, friction etc then modding an engine is good.

I hand mod all my engines and its a good thing IMO, especialy when your still doing laps while everyone else has to stop for fuel.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:11 AM   #5
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+1

A modified motor isn't necessarily about making more power. It can be about smoothing out the power thats "available", or moving the rev range.

As stated its about making the motor more efficient which in turn can translate into a bit more power.

A modified motor can be easier to drive and still produce great horsepower. As an example, I know alot of motors are like on/off switches or have a very steep power curve. I tend to smooth that out so that when you hold the throttle at 1/4 or 1/2, it feels like that. A more linear and progressive feel to the acceleration...

What I've found with regard to a comment above that someone didn't notice any difference between their motor and the mod'ed ones some guys were running is that there is Driver Ability/skill and Engine Tuning Skill...

I find that its not just the best driver/tuner, thats maxed out his stocker that wants a mod'ed motor, its even the guy thats only but running a month with his RTR that wants one. So, to judge a modified motor based on how well or how poorly someone else is running isn't a real good gauge.

Drive a modified motor and you'll "feel" the difference.

And as stated, a side benefit is usually increased fuel effieciency...




Quote:
Originally Posted by GenReaper View Post
Modded engine are tuned for performance, the benefits are Longer tank times, more power thruout the rev range so in reality you dont have to always use full throttle, you can set your EPA to less so you use less throttle and gain more run time. The engine is basicaly more efficient and therefore more economical.

Considering most engines only put out about 12% of what the engine could make because of , inertia, heat, rotating mass, friction etc then modding an engine is good.

I hand mod all my engines and its a good thing IMO, especialy when your still doing laps while everyone else has to stop for fuel.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:40 AM   #6
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Don't even bother with modified ones.
Most probably they will ruin runtime without adding power.
If there was more into an engine i believe manufacturers would have done it.
We haven't reached the point where too much power compromises lifespan as seen in 1:1 engines so modifying won't really make any noticeable difference. At least not more than a clutch and pipe change would do.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:56 AM   #7
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I agree. Modding is not needed %99 of the time. The only mod I would ever consider would be to increase fuel economy. And that would only be necessary based on the race program/track you're running.

For example, if you're running indoors on a high bite track with very cool air temps then most any good motor will get over 7:30 mins. Assuming a 15 min. A-main then you'll need to pit once. But, no motor, modded or not, will go 15 mins on a 125ml tank.

However, if under these same conditions it's a 20 min A-main, and a modded motor can hit the magic 10 min mark, then it makes sense since you'll only need to pit once instead of twice.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:15 AM   #8
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I had two OPS Speedsters - one modded by RB Mods and another one completely stock. The difference was shocking, but not in a good way. Top end was only a bit higher than the stock stock one, but using the same clutch setup the modded one didn't have any bottom end power at all, i hardly managed to jump a big double jump just after the corner, where's the stock one made it easier. The runtime was similar. The only good points was - the modded one never flamed out, as the stock one flamed out a few times if not properly tuned.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:52 AM   #9
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Kevin-

I have several of the OS Vspec motors, and can tell you that unless you are pro level, spare the expense and skip the modification. Even the best motors offer only a small runtime / power advantage, which is rarely even a factor in lower classes.

In the Expert / Pro A main, 45 minutes, where ten guys are running within a lap and you might be able to win by pitting one less time. In that case there is a good chance you are likely running against Drake, who stretches 9 and a half plus minutes (stopwatched at the OFNA Championships at Revelation Raceway in August) on a tank by running his motor a little leaner than most would. Then tears them down every event or two and re-sleeves or replaces because he has a motor sponsor.

The difference in power between one of my OS VSpec motors and my OS SPEED Factory tuned monster is marginal, and has more to do with the range of power, and of course higher RPMs.

My advice. Do yourself a favor, buy a good base motor (Novarossi, OS Vspec) and save the money for an extra set of Main only tires, or to help on a good temp gun.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:51 AM   #10
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I have to agree with bushyar15.

The benefits of a smoother power band and increased fuel economy were the reasons why I sent my motor over to ProTwisterMods.

I also had a set of Ceramic bearings put in while he had it apart, which also helps the picture.

I am weary of modders who claim that their mods create CRAZY horsepower and insanely high RPMs. That was one of the things that attracted me to PTM: Brian was very humble and honest about his work. He promised increased fuel economy and a smooth power band and that's what his mod delivered.

That being said, I don't know that getting a motor modded is a NECESSITY. But, just like putting every after-market hopup on...it's a preference thing.

That's what makes this hobby so great. There is a fair level of flexibility and preference built into the hobby. Once you have spent the $1000-1200 to get into 1/8th scale buggy (we are talking from scratch here and going with quality components and support equipment)...a few more dollars for a mod isn't even worth mentioning.
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Old 10-02-2007, 11:25 AM   #11
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Would I like a modded motor....YES.....Would I buy a modded motor....NO.....

Now Why would I say that??????

There are soooooooo many other things that you can do to your ride that will increase performance that will offer greater benifits. Now if you are a die hard serious racer that has deep pockets and has done most of these upgrades, then modding a motor does make sense to me. But Buying a modded motor should not be boughten as your first performance upgrade and think that it will bring you up to first place.

I do agree with the pervious post on how a modded motor often will not make it just suddenly become the greatest thing since sliced bread, but many people modd to alter characteristics about the motor, i.e. power curve
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Old 10-02-2007, 11:34 AM   #12
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I HAVE SEEN SOME RYTHYM sections that weren't doable consistently without a mod motor but those are far and few between. and the motor was a factory novarossi mod motor for a nor cal pro driver. that motor was the only one with the grunt to get through it and the lap times were noticeably faster but for the average joe i would say stick with a stock motor as they are fast enough for most and get better fuel mileage.
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:46 PM   #13
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Hand modded engines are NOT worth the money. 2 out of 3 will tune like crap, and usually not last as long(from my experience) You can usually get almost as good of fuel milage out of an unmodded engine, and they are much easier to tune. If you want to take the chance of getting the 1 out of 3 that does run great, that's your choice.
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Old 10-02-2007, 03:54 PM   #14
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I too have both modded and stock engines, most of the time the stocker is totally fine , but Ihave one engine that HAD to be modded as it had totally retarded bottom end power and made it really hard to get hooked up .
The engine is a NovaRossi 421 Now she's a sweatheart and just as smooth as silk yet insainely fast and allows you to sneak up on jumps with out spinning out as you squeeze to get over them. Most V-Specs I have seen modded only loose their famous bottom end power , I like this power and tame it down with clutch tuning ,the motor is a square bore/stroke unit so it has great punch ,smooth mid and needs to spool up to the crazy top end , the 421, smooth bottom with increadible mid range to top end and just never seems to stop pulling ,the V-Spec runs out just short , but only on the longest of straights ,(over 200')
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Old 10-02-2007, 04:30 PM   #15
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Most people that comment that modified motors aren't worth it, haven't owned one, don't have the money for one, or realize that they've still got aways to go before a modified motor will benefit them...

But the truth is they do make a difference. As stated earlier, its not about making power, its about making the power useable....

And the comment below... about manufacturers would have done it....

Thats absolutely not true. That engine you buy is a compromise. A compromise between cost and performance. What you see when you pull apart these engines is the result of machine work. There is almost zero hand work, because it costs too much. Refinement of porting and polishing is manual labor intensive... This cost would be transfered to the buyer who already freaks out over the 250+ price tag...

And if you think the engines are perfect, open one up. Take a good look. Its far from it. I won't go into details but there is a term called "Blue-printing" if you aren't familiar with it, ask your folks...

Another point is that each engine modifier mods their engines to produce different results. Most people that buy modified engines that don't like them didn't do any real research as to what mods does EB, or RB make. They just hear the name, heard from some one that they are great motor and bought one...

RB, EB, CEO, and myself mod motors for different results. The comment about the RB, yup, absolutely. The RB Mods, motors tend to have less on the bottom end. If you compare the crank work that RB does you'll see that he builds them for more power at the top-end, EB makes a V-Spec slightly softer on the bottom and produces a smoother powerband than stock...

If any of you are out in the Metro Denver area for a race, I'll gladly let you drive one of my modified engines back to back with a stocker and let you decide for yourself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vti-chris View Post
Don't even bother with modified ones.
Most probably they will ruin runtime without adding power.
If there was more into an engine i believe manufacturers would have done it.
We haven't reached the point where too much power compromises lifespan as seen in 1:1 engines so modifying won't really make any noticeable difference. At least not more than a clutch and pipe change would do.
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