what makes a savage so durable??
11-13-2011, 04:09 PM
#46
I'm fine with the rtr's needing some improvements. I don't mind that at all, I like the idea making it your own. All I know is when I owned my xxl even tho its not a big issue. Losing my grub screws everyday was a big pet peve. I even put lock tight on there and let it sit for two hours and that still didn't help..
I will say this tho. My xxl was a beast. That truck has seen four ditches full of water two mini lakes four fences two trash cans three mail boxes and six trees its also seen hat tricks as well. Where it would hit a mail box bounce off that into a trash can into a fence and finally ending on its lid in the ditch full of water.
Only thing i ever broke on my xxl after beating the piss out of it was. One head sink one set of a arms a shock and one steering linkage also my tranny and a spider gear in the front diff. The motor had 13+ gallons threw it FYI.. I don't have any doubts in my mind that the savage will be able to hang with the good old xxl and i do believe that its going to be a fun experience for me..
Here are some pics of the old xxl
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HIT A TREE AT 30+ MPH :-)!!
TRUCK VS WOODEN FOR SALE SIGN..
FORD BODY AND BLAST RIMS..
RIGHT BEFORE I GOT RID OF IT. WITH THE SHARPIE CHEVY BODY, PAINT IS DONE WITH A REAL SHARPIE :-)
Thanks all for the comments and feed back. I will update this tread when i get the savage x..
I will say this tho. My xxl was a beast. That truck has seen four ditches full of water two mini lakes four fences two trash cans three mail boxes and six trees its also seen hat tricks as well. Where it would hit a mail box bounce off that into a trash can into a fence and finally ending on its lid in the ditch full of water.
Only thing i ever broke on my xxl after beating the piss out of it was. One head sink one set of a arms a shock and one steering linkage also my tranny and a spider gear in the front diff. The motor had 13+ gallons threw it FYI.. I don't have any doubts in my mind that the savage will be able to hang with the good old xxl and i do believe that its going to be a fun experience for me..
Here are some pics of the old xxl
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HIT A TREE AT 30+ MPH :-)!!
TRUCK VS WOODEN FOR SALE SIGN..
FORD BODY AND BLAST RIMS..
RIGHT BEFORE I GOT RID OF IT. WITH THE SHARPIE CHEVY BODY, PAINT IS DONE WITH A REAL SHARPIE :-)
Thanks all for the comments and feed back. I will update this tread when i get the savage x..
11-13-2011, 08:20 PM
#47
Not sure I believe that.....ive been through truggies and yes they have nice suspension but im not sure they have more suspension than a savage. I can see the long a arms on the truggy being the difference but the savage has some long travel. I have my savage set up with arms level to the ground too
11-13-2011, 09:28 PM
#48
Not sure I believe that.....ive been through truggies and yes they have nice suspension but im not sure they have more suspension than a savage. I can see the long a arms on the truggy being the difference but the savage has some long travel. I have my savage set up with arms level to the ground too
measure your savage and I'll measure my 6T....... since I have done this already I Am pretty confident in the results...But like many, your going to need to see it yourself to believe it.....tomorrow I will try to get some measurement photos to show ya....
As for suspension, the best thing that can happen is for the chassis to bottom out.... if you try to absorb all the impact strictly thru the suspension the truck will blow to pieces....Bottoming of the chassis allows for a big amount of energy to be absorbed without damaging the truck......On our track the triple jump destroyed the Savages....But the jump was big, fast with a very hard landing....14' air traveling 45' between takeoff and landing.....
11-13-2011, 09:42 PM
#49
I just measured the travel on my stock flux savage at 92 mm's and I have the stock bump stops in the shock which are 5mm so 97 mm's of travel. Measure your 6t and dont fluff the #'s because my buddy has a 6t and im going to measure it next time I see him...
I know all about large long jumps.....one of the tracks I visit is revelation raceway.....they have plenty of large long jumps
I know all about large long jumps.....one of the tracks I visit is revelation raceway.....they have plenty of large long jumps
11-16-2011, 03:28 PM
#50
A Losi XXL is an LST2 with a stretched chassis. RTR out of the box of course the engine, rims, and body are different. The servos are slightly upgraded and stronger. Beyond that, transmission output gears and +1 on the clutch-bell, HD diff cups(totally unnecessary) maybe, and yeah, the XXL doesn't have the Hi-lo option like the LST2.
But beyond those things, almost all of the plastic bits are the same. The hubs and carriers, cups, arms, tanks, diff-to-wheel- shafts, 2-speed(with bearing, not bushing like in the Aftershock..), etc.. all the same. And in both cases much beefier than an Aftershock. There used to be some comparison picks of the LST2 vs. AS arms and spindles and carriers and shafts and cups - all much beefier on the LST2. And all that is identical on the XXL.
The LST2 was a HUGE upgrade over the Aftershock(which itself was a slightly rebadged LST1..)
As far as Savages go, I had a 25 RTR, and it was undeniably bullet-proof tough - at least the chassis and plastics. The drivetrain exploded after 4-5 gallons though. I later had an XSS, and it was much poorer quality - especially the plastics. The metal in the cups too was soft. But the plastic was the worst. I felt you could practically scratch the skid-plate with your finger nail for ex. Maybe HPI was experimenting with plastic recipes or something and I got mine from a weak batch. But weak it was. I ended up actually replacing quite a few parts with stuff from my 25 - which at that point had been sitting in a box for 2+ years.. - and yes it was just better quality. You can see it and recognize the difference visually almost immediately. I also had bought a Savage X 4.1 when they came out, and was very disappointed by the quality. Ended up selling it. Maybe HPI has improved their plastic and drivetrain quality by now though.
Why are Savages tough? The TVP layout, and maybe because their A-arms are kind of short. True though, you never break an A-arm on a Savage.. But the price of course is the laughable handling(which is actually fun sometimes..)
Back in the day I got my Savage XSS and LST2 new at the same time. I had issues hand over fist with the Savage, and the LST2 just did everything right - including lots of jumping and being very tough throughout it all. Five years on and it's still going strong - albeit now with some slop in the steering, so need to probably replace some stuff up front, but after what it's been through, no prob...
But beyond those things, almost all of the plastic bits are the same. The hubs and carriers, cups, arms, tanks, diff-to-wheel- shafts, 2-speed(with bearing, not bushing like in the Aftershock..), etc.. all the same. And in both cases much beefier than an Aftershock. There used to be some comparison picks of the LST2 vs. AS arms and spindles and carriers and shafts and cups - all much beefier on the LST2. And all that is identical on the XXL.
The LST2 was a HUGE upgrade over the Aftershock(which itself was a slightly rebadged LST1..)
As far as Savages go, I had a 25 RTR, and it was undeniably bullet-proof tough - at least the chassis and plastics. The drivetrain exploded after 4-5 gallons though. I later had an XSS, and it was much poorer quality - especially the plastics. The metal in the cups too was soft. But the plastic was the worst. I felt you could practically scratch the skid-plate with your finger nail for ex. Maybe HPI was experimenting with plastic recipes or something and I got mine from a weak batch. But weak it was. I ended up actually replacing quite a few parts with stuff from my 25 - which at that point had been sitting in a box for 2+ years.. - and yes it was just better quality. You can see it and recognize the difference visually almost immediately. I also had bought a Savage X 4.1 when they came out, and was very disappointed by the quality. Ended up selling it. Maybe HPI has improved their plastic and drivetrain quality by now though.
Why are Savages tough? The TVP layout, and maybe because their A-arms are kind of short. True though, you never break an A-arm on a Savage.. But the price of course is the laughable handling(which is actually fun sometimes..)
Back in the day I got my Savage XSS and LST2 new at the same time. I had issues hand over fist with the Savage, and the LST2 just did everything right - including lots of jumping and being very tough throughout it all. Five years on and it's still going strong - albeit now with some slop in the steering, so need to probably replace some stuff up front, but after what it's been through, no prob...
11-17-2011, 12:03 AM
#51
Muggy, LST2, XXL plastics - carriers, spindles, arms, skidplates, bumpers - with LST2 and XXL the bulkheads and towers - etc.. ALL the same.. I know - I have a drawer full of parts I've never needed. Maybe they tweaked their recipe or something like any other company does from time to time, but all those plastic bits are %100 identical. And even if they did tweak their recipe(IF...), it wasn't necessary.. Again, I have a drawer full of LST2, Muggy, and XXL parts that I've just never needed.. And in any event, a "new plastic recipe" was never a selling point for the XXL. If anything(IF...), just a coincidence..
11-17-2011, 12:21 PM
#52
I am going to buck the trend here and say that I don't find the Savages to be that tough, or that reliable....Usually they can't make 2 laps at the track without breaking something, and as a rule when when we run with Savages the owners spend most of their day wrenching on the tailgate and not running on the dirt.... Definitely nowhere near as durable as the race machines we run..... Nice fun trucks to run, but extremely high in the maintenance scale compared to the race grade machines we run...... Its amazing they hold up to bashing so well as they fall apart like Lego on the track.....
edit... I have no doubts the Savage is a durable basher, it would not have the reputation and following it has if it wasn't.....for some reason tho they don't seem to hold up well on the track at all....And the only ones that held up good were so radically modified that they could barely be considered a Savage any more...Is a track more punishing then then bashing ? or are the angles and types of hits different ?
edit... I have no doubts the Savage is a durable basher, it would not have the reputation and following it has if it wasn't.....for some reason tho they don't seem to hold up well on the track at all....And the only ones that held up good were so radically modified that they could barely be considered a Savage any more...Is a track more punishing then then bashing ? or are the angles and types of hits different ?
11-18-2011, 07:03 AM
#53
I own a brushless lst2(non losi conversion) with xxl diffs, and other upgrades, a savage x ss, and a 2011 savage x. I love my lst2, I even owned an original lst back in the day, and I have to say the savage does beat it in durability, but handling, my lst takes the cake. I believe both have their strong point, but head to head stock, my savage is able to out bash my lst2. I haven't upgraded a single part on my savage the 3 months I've owned it/ beat on it, and the only thing I've replaced is a grub screw. I wish we could merge the 2 trucks together, now that would be awesome.
11-18-2011, 07:50 AM
#54
One, your brushless LST2 probably weighs a lot more, and is a lot more powerful, so if it breaks more, that would explain it..
Secondly, three months is too short to make a fair comparison. Try six months. After six months I bet the Losi is in better condition and less so in need of repairs/replacements..
And to the guy earlier with the pics complaining about the drivetrain grub screws in his Losi, you need to leave loctite more than two hours - on any RC... Ideally 12 or more.. Early on in my RC "career" I also had Savage grub screws (especially at the brake hub) pop out after two hours of loctite drying...
Secondly, three months is too short to make a fair comparison. Try six months. After six months I bet the Losi is in better condition and less so in need of repairs/replacements..
And to the guy earlier with the pics complaining about the drivetrain grub screws in his Losi, you need to leave loctite more than two hours - on any RC... Ideally 12 or more.. Early on in my RC "career" I also had Savage grub screws (especially at the brake hub) pop out after two hours of loctite drying...
11-18-2011, 07:54 AM
#55
You forgot to mention the XXL has downgraded shocks compared to the LST2. LST2 has nice aluminum shocks compared to the cheaper plastic shocks on the XXL. I dont know why they did that with the XXL, but it was a bad move IMO.
11-18-2011, 08:00 AM
#56
Good point cummins.. I think the plastic ones are lighter(and cheaper for Losi too.. Plus alu shock bodies are a nice hopup part to sell.. That said, I don't think they're really necessary..)
That's another thing with Savages btw.. You can go big with them, and yeah the A-arms will hold up. But they will blow (or at the very least bend..) shocks much more quickly than an LST2 will. Losi shocks are awesome.. I have plastic Muggy shocks on my one LST2 btw, and they hold up great..
That's another thing with Savages btw.. You can go big with them, and yeah the A-arms will hold up. But they will blow (or at the very least bend..) shocks much more quickly than an LST2 will. Losi shocks are awesome.. I have plastic Muggy shocks on my one LST2 btw, and they hold up great..
11-18-2011, 08:01 AM
#57
One race buddy of mine actually prefers the plastic ones for weight savings at the track. He uses no aluminum parts, all CF and plastic on his XXL. He's never had one issue and his power to weight ratio is impressive.
Either way, any of the losi shock setups can be swapped out or changed and all are fantastic shocks regardless and the best of all the MT's.
Last edited by ntrain42; 11-18-2011 at 08:25 AM.
11-18-2011, 08:07 AM
#58
One, your brushless LST2 probably weighs a lot more, and is a lot more powerful, so if it breaks more, that would explain it..
Secondly, three months is too short to make a fair comparison. Try six months. After six months I bet the Losi is in better condition and less so in need of repairs/replacements..
And to the guy earlier with the pics complaining about the drivetrain grub screws in his Losi, you need to leave loctite more than two hours - on any RC... Ideally 12 or more.. Early on in my RC "career" I also had Savage grub screws (especially at the brake hub) pop out after two hours of loctite drying...
Secondly, three months is too short to make a fair comparison. Try six months. After six months I bet the Losi is in better condition and less so in need of repairs/replacements..
And to the guy earlier with the pics complaining about the drivetrain grub screws in his Losi, you need to leave loctite more than two hours - on any RC... Ideally 12 or more.. Early on in my RC "career" I also had Savage grub screws (especially at the brake hub) pop out after two hours of loctite drying...
Well my 2011 savage x has more use then my savage x ss, I got it for $200 shipped rtr with about 2 gallons ran through it. He said he hasn't replaced anything, and I've drove it a lot and taken some hits that I swore I broke something, but nope. The only thing I've replaced was a slipper pad. I don't know how old it is, or how it was used before, but its still like new after mudding, and bashing.
You have to let loctite dry for 24 hours.
11-18-2011, 09:18 AM
#59
Good point cummins.. I think the plastic ones are lighter(and cheaper for Losi too.. Plus alu shock bodies are a nice hopup part to sell.. That said, I don't think they're really necessary..)
That's another thing with Savages btw.. You can go big with them, and yeah the A-arms will hold up. But they will blow (or at the very least bend..) shocks much more quickly than an LST2 will. Losi shocks are awesome.. I have plastic Muggy shocks on my one LST2 btw, and they hold up great..
That's another thing with Savages btw.. You can go big with them, and yeah the A-arms will hold up. But they will blow (or at the very least bend..) shocks much more quickly than an LST2 will. Losi shocks are awesome.. I have plastic Muggy shocks on my one LST2 btw, and they hold up great..
11-18-2011, 09:19 AM
#60
Surely not.... 
I knew you would for whatever reason. But i have yet to see a case where the plastic version of a shock was better than the aluminum version. So even though im sure the plastics work fine, my opinion is still that the aluminum ones are probably a little better and look much nicer.
I knew you would for whatever reason. But i have yet to see a case where the plastic version of a shock was better than the aluminum version. So even though im sure the plastics work fine, my opinion is still that the aluminum ones are probably a little better and look much nicer.
Last edited by Cummins Driver; 11-18-2011 at 09:31 AM.