danih

this would be my first nitro rc truck.
i started researching a few weeks ago and just got more and more confused
from MGT 4.6 to MGT 8 tp Revo 3.3 to savage x to xl
every time i go online to try to read through, i just find everyone with an opinion
even at my LHS, 1 went twice and each time was a different sales guy who recommended the opposite of his colleague!!!

now its down between those 2:
losi lst xxl: i like the engine 3.5 bhp, i like the handling, i love the spectrum rc with telemetry. I am not sure of its wheelie and bashing ability, heard a lot about bad differentials,
hpi savage x ss 4.6 kit with spectrum: almost same price as lst and i get the radio with telemetry. I like: engine, wheelie and bash ability, durability, availability of hop-up parts. I hate, handling, less attention to detail, less "racy" parts out-of-the-box

i dont have much hope that i will find an answer here, but your honest opinions will sure be helpful.

440swinger-kid

iTrader: (50)

Savage....

Had a few of them and they are great and they DONT fail like Losi crap..... Also the 3.5bhp is not even close to what the hp really is.... The Savage is a beast but if you want to learn how to build/re-build something over and over get a Losi LST.

The only things on the Savage that I would replace is the roto start needs a pull start, better steering servo, and do the ofna brake/throttle mod. Then the only thing that fails is the fuel tank but you can get a guard for it or do a mid tank mod using a 1/8th buggy tank. Everything else holds up great.

Also the Savage was not made to be a "Racer" if you want a racer get a truggy.

Just my few cents.

Herrsavage

I completely disagree, and my experience is the complete opposite.

I gave up on Savages and HPI forever after my second Savage. It was horrible - bad quality throughout... Now, with the Savage XL, you also have what by many accounts is a not very good engine.

Losi on the other hand just makes superior products. Going from Savages to a a Losi XXL is like going from a Model T to a Bugatti Veyron - it's just more evolved. Like that t-shirt showing the evolution from football to soccer player. The Savage is a knuckle-dragger, the Losi writes symphonies.. (Ha ha yeah I'm getting carried away, but you get the idea..) It handles a lot better, and will be faster. The plastic is better quality, and the engine is better. Then there's the radio. The Losi drivetrain is likely to be more reliable and robust..

In the Savage's favor the stock A-arms are probably stronger, so you're less likely to break them when bungling huge jumps and cartwheeling down a hill. I just get a set of stockers for the Losi on ebay and it's a cheap and easy and quick repair if you do break one(you may well not..) RPM's are an option too, but IMHO they're overpriced and not necessary.. The stock arms are plenty strong. I bashed my LST2's and Muggy(same arms..) plenty and the arms withstood a lot. I.e. this one advantage of the Savage is by only a very thin margin..- if it even is one, to be honest.. My main gripe with the Losi is the 1/16 screws and generally needing non-metric tools..

For the XXL all you really need to get going is the Dynamite engine brace, and to threadlock metal to metal stuff.

I say get the Losi - it's just all around a superior truck. My stock LST2 is 3 1/2 years old, and is the best RC I've ever had. My Savage XSS was the worst.

(The XXL is just a lengthened LST2.., more or less..)

440swinger-kid

iTrader: (50)

He was not asking about the Savage Xl motor... I have heard guys that loved that motor and hated it......

IMO the Losi LST2 truck was/is a POS...... I have had 3 Savages and loved them all except for the fact they were nitro.......

Get the X SS.... you'll love it.

Herrsavage

So, in your opinion, "the LST2 is/was a POS".. And what personal experience precisely is this well-informed and objective opinion of yours based on?

The Savage XL is funny. It has tough a-arms, so newbies think it's tough when it cartwheels down a hill and doesn't break(then you hear that old pukey line - "and comes back for more..." ), but the rest of it is pretty useless. Put a more powerful engine in it and it falls apart from the inside out - tranny, diffs, cups, etc.. Just poor quality. It's probably a halfway OK first RC for somebody who wants to bash. But the Losi is just superior across the board. Handling, speed, quality.. HPI is kind of good at marketing I guess, so people will believe it's good I guess based on the shiny ads.. But yeah, ads are one thing - handling, speed, quality, etc.. something else.

Losi ftw.

Cummins Driver

iTrader: (19)

Good golly. Pull it together guys.

I own all 3 now. Have had monster GT's and Savages for a while, and just got my Losi LST2.

My savage after over 10 gallons is still going strong. Have yet to break anything other than a rear differential and regular maintenance items.

Ill list what i feel are some pro's and cons of each truck

Savage

- Extremely durable
- Handles like a monster truck. Not a racer by any means, but its a blast to drive
- The driveline in the new savage is strong. The differential cups need replacing every few gallons, but its cheap
- Time consuming to work on since you have to take a chassis plate off to do much of anything
- Stock brakes arent much good without a better servo or some mods

Monster GT

- Durable, but i feel maybe not quite as durable as the Losi or Savage
- Extremely easy to work on
- Handles surprisingly well with the right tires
- Transmission can have problems, but with the right mantenance shouldnt be an issue. Didnt care a lot for the reverse in the tranny though.
- Driveline is strong. Drive cups and differentials last extremely well
- Brakes are great

Losi LST2/XXL

- Best Handling MT i have driven out of the box
- Reverse works well, and the transmission is strong
- Some have had a lot of issues from the one way bearing on 1st gear
- Brakes are good
- Fairly easy to work on and the differentials and driveline is pretty strong
- Jumps great and is very easy to control in the air. The huge shocks make it land great
- Engine brace is extremely weak. I have already broken mine from light jumping
- Really dislike the tiny standard bolts on the truck

Those are just my opinions on all the trucks. I havent owned the losi as long as the others yet, but i never have broken a thing on my others jumping so I feel the engine brace is definately a weak spot.

Anybody that says one of these trucks is leaps and bounds better than the other is biased IMO. Now there is no doubt that one truck may be better for what a certain person is doing than the other, but to say one is just better at everything is not correct IMO.

Eric

Herrsavage

Couple minor points(not arguing, just making points ha ha...)

1.) Your Savage is a 25 I believe. Notice I said my XSS was crap - and it definitely was. It was my second Savage. My first was a 25. And it was really very good - except the diffs. With the X-generation Savage part quality went WAY down. I owned both trucks for a couple years, had them(or at least the parts..) side by side. For me the difference was very obvious. With the X-gen the plastic was maybe a little greyer, and bendier, and overall cheaper feeling. And in practice it proved to break a LOT easier.. The drivetrain, which was supposedly upgraded, still sucked on the XSS. I understand the XL has been improved yet another step - but I don't trust HPI anymore. Shiny, high-on-image, low-on-quality, fairly high-price 1st RC's for newbs pretty much.. Good 1st RC basher IMO for those who can't afford a Losi XXL. But inferior.. Not saying the XL is total crap as I haven't had one. But based on my other Savages, and the umpteen threads about blown out HPI engines and trannies and gears on the XL, the Savage XL is just not of the same caliber as the LST2/XXL. Just talking quality there too. Performance there's no question..

2.) The 2-speed issue on the Losi trucks happens when people mod them for racing and put lighter, smaller truggy tires on them. I don't know why exactly this happens - but I have suffered from this. My second LST2 was my "racer" - Muggy shocks, LPR truggy tires, etc.. Had lots of 2-speed headaches, so finally gave up on it.. My first LST2 though is a champ. If you're gonna bash and jump and stuff, you want those huge, heavy stock wheels anyway..

Cummins Driver

iTrader: (19)

Both my savages are .25 versions. They may have changed the plastic a little on the X's, but honestly, I havent heard many complaints. I believe you may have just had a "lemon" of sorts with your XSS. The kit is the worst savage you can buy anyway, but I believe the savage is an extremely tough truck. I have bashed with X's that could take a beating too. HPI may be good at marketing, but traxxas is better at it, and you dont hear that many people on the forums defending a t-maxx these days. Marketing cant sell everything. It helps make it more popular, but 90% of the people are extremely happy with their savages not because of marketing, but because they are just a great basher even if they arent as refined as the others. I still dont think the Losi trucks are superior by any means, only different.

Herrsavage

I actually think Savages are fun to drive - it's a challenge keeping them upright. Like an old mucle-car - all image and zero handling.. But yeah, they have a certain something. Had mine stayed in one piece and not been such a PIA, my comments would be more favorable. My main gripe was part quality and the drivetrain - less the handling, and I'm not completely convinced it was just down to me having a lemon - all kinds of guys in the various MT forums have problems with exploding tranny gears, diffs, etc.. Not a truck IMO you can get five more-or-less problem free gallons out of.. - at least if you're a WOT junkie like I am..

Fave old pic of mine.. - this was after max three gallons..(maybe even less than two.. I don't keep precise track, and it was a long time ago.. I think this was due to riding too many wheelies.. Still, it was WAY too early to be seeing this kind of wear.. My LST2 has 10+ gallons on it and the original cups - no significant wear to speak of..)






Back in the day the knock on Savages was that you had to upgrade the HELL out of them to be able to take more powerful engines. The wear in those pics is from a lowly Axial 28. Now you have the Savage XL, which has an engine many consider to be subpar and problematic. So what do they do? Upgrade to better, more powerful engines.. Then you get the exploding tranny gears, etc.. Not saying the Savage totally sucks - it's OK. It's just lowish on quality compared to the Losi. And again, we're not even talking handling, speed, jumping, reverse, stock engine and radio, etc.. - just part quality..


These engines - which truck?, which engines? etc.. are always totally subjective I suppose.. So yeah, I guess, for a first RC, the Savage XL is good. Having been in RC for a while and had several different brands, I just think the Losi is better. To each his own - but this is a forum where people ask for opinions, so that was mine.. Happy bashing..

ntrain42

iTrader: (33)

My vote is for the LST XXL. Much stronger drivetrain period. Its handling is night and day better than the Savage especially on the XXL due to the increased wheelbase. Tuned right it will wheelie without much effort.

Few misconceptions here:

A. The drivetrain/diffs are extrememly strong(The diffs the XXL comes with are the HD ones with the metal slug inserts for the spider gears)
B. The OWB is an issue: not true at all. A few of the smart people(me being one of them)have found that the majority of people with issues had a OWB/2 speed assembly issue due to too much grease being applied in the area(easy 5 minute check)from the factory.

The facts:

A. Eninge brace is weak: THis is true. Its a 5-10 dollar part that should be upgraded from the start. Its a very small piece that is easy to replace. Also, the diffs are not a weakpoint, they are actually very strong.
B. Aftermarket support: The LST has an insane amount of optional hop up parts, only a few are needed to make it a bullitproof basher. You can spend countless hundreds of dollars on this vehicle if you really want to, LOL! Check out my XXL thread if you didnt already. I have 2 XXL's, one for racing, one for bashing.
C. Easiest MT to work on. The LST is a very well designed and thought out MT. Acess to everything is relatively easy once you get to know the truck.
D. Geometry is superior. Think of literally a 1/8th scale truggy with MT rims/tires. The COG is nice and low on it, the suspension design is the best there is period, same with the steering.
E. The plastic on the Losi is superior to the HPI's plastic, the Losi LST XXL uses the same composite material the new Losi 8ight 2.0 race rollers are made out of. And if you boil the parts they will become ALOT stronger and more pliable for extreme impacts.

Out of the box stock, the Losi comes with a stronger LRP Spec3 .28 motor, and the spinstart system for the Losi is more robust than the rotostart system the Savage uses as well, and in honesty the Losi LST XXL has a much higher upgrade ceiling than the Savage.

440swinger-kid

iTrader: (50)

So why are you still talking about the XL for???? He does not want a XL. I personally loved my X the most. I had the 21, 25 and X. The X was a lot better set up with better parts and a lot faster out of the box......

Also you keep talking about handleing, it's a DAMN MT..... not a TRUGGY! You can add XL axles to the truck and work on the suspension and make it handle a lot better but it is a MT not a "Racer"

ntrain42

iTrader: (33)

Your right, the Savage ins't a racer, but the LST XXL has its roots planted in racing. Won quite a few major national races in MT class too through the years too.

Quite honestly, what handles better on the race track applies to bashing as well. The track/wheelbase ratio on the XXL and geometry are simply the best of all the MT's for handing, and it has a lower COG while maintaining the same ground clearance as the Savage. Then add in the extra long travel suspension which is alot better than the Savage along with shocks larger than what you find on alot of 1/5th scale vehicles and you have a MT that is incredibly stable through the rough stuff. It is what it is.

Id rather have a MT that can handle like an oversized truggy than a MT that handles literally like a MT for racing OR bashing.

Herrsavage

Sorry - my mistake in assuming he was talking about the Savage XL. Though if he's talking about the X then I recommend the Losi all the more. The XL is the only Savage I personally would contemplate - and I would immediately change out the engine for an LRP 30 or even a 28.

Cummins Driver

iTrader: (19)

Those drive cups are like butter. They are the kit drive cups and they dont hold up. The regular standard drive cups last twice as long as those. I had about 6 gallons on my standard ones before they needed replacing.

The old savages had some driveline problems with more powerful engines. The new savages all have bulletproof gears in the differentials which takes care of that problem. Replace the drive cups every 6 gallons or so and you are good to go.

The savage transmission is just as reliable if not more reliable than the losi's so there isnt much argument there either. The 2 speed savage transmissions last very well and dont have one way bearing issues like some of the losi transmissions have had.

The losi handles really well, no doubt there. And it is fun to drive like that, but my savage is just as fun in a different way. It takes a little more skill to keep it on its feet.

In regard to Ntrain42

A- Losi engine brace is more like $15-20 shipped. You can get a stock one for $5 but thats a waste of time.
B- Sure, but you can build a $5000 T-Maxx if you want. Doesent mean its better than anything else
C- After owning all 3 of the big MT's, Ill have to disagree. The Monster GT is the easiest to work on to me.
D- I agree suspension and steering is very nice for handling on the losi
E- BS. HPI's plastic is some of the strongest you will find. Not saying the Losi's is bad, but I seriously doubt its stronger than the savage's.

The losi comes with a 454, not a spec 3 LRP .28 .Everything i have heard says they are close, but not identical.

I currently OWN all 3 of the big dogs in the MT market. I like all 3, but the losi is not superior like these diehards say. It is a good truck, and the best for racing, but not head over heels better than the others by any means.

ntrain42

iTrader: (33)

A. Depends on where you get the brace and which one(Hot Racing or Dynamite, both are the same quality). I can get one here for 10 bucks. But Ill go with the assessment of $15-20, still cheap dough though and not an expensive fix/upgrade.
B. The Savage's transmission is definetly nowhere near as durable as the Losi's, the XXL specifically(without the High/lo gear selector). I have seen too many Savage transmissions grenade here locally from robust nitro engines. Didnt matter if it was the XL,X,SS etc. The metal grade is not as good.
C. Problem with a $5k T-maxx or whatever is being built up your still dealing with the design/geometry your building up and its inherant weakpoints. The actual design of the Losi is honestly its strongest selling point of the truck IMO.
D. Give yourself some time with the LST2 that you have, I am familiar with the AE GT but I still feel the Losi is a much more straight forward design.
E. HPI's plastic is good, but the new composite material the LST XXL uses is very robust and I feel is a step better. And since its a composite/nylon blend, boiling with significantly improve its pliability(durability from impact in reality). You have the LST2 and I believe the plastic blend is actually different on that earlier generation. Not sure 100% though. But last time I played with an LST2 the plastic from my recollection had a different texture and weight to it. Ill know better in the next few days on this though.

Oh and concerning the Losi 454. It is a Spec3 motor. Same sleeve,crank,piston, case etc. The only differences are the cooling fin and carb inlet size(9.0mm on Losi, 8.5mm on the spec3 I believe).