Fargo / Moorhead Area Radio Control
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#107
Tech Initiate
iTrader: (3)
Our next "Saturday - all classes" race at Dilworth's - Red River R/C Car Club Track is planned for Saturday, September 2nd - 10AM.
Corner of County Road 9 and 1st Ave NW - Dilworth, MN
Stock Slash
2wd Stock Buggy 1/10
4wd Buggy 1/10
Sportsman
2wd Open SC
4wd Open SC
***DATE CHANGE*** Due to a schedule conflict with another local RC event in Barnesville we have moved our race to Labor Day weekend. Saturday, Sep 2nd.
Corner of County Road 9 and 1st Ave NW - Dilworth, MN
Stock Slash
2wd Stock Buggy 1/10
4wd Buggy 1/10
Sportsman
2wd Open SC
4wd Open SC
***DATE CHANGE*** Due to a schedule conflict with another local RC event in Barnesville we have moved our race to Labor Day weekend. Saturday, Sep 2nd.
Last edited by 50stang; 08-08-2017 at 07:43 AM.
#112
Tech Initiate
iTrader: (3)
Our next "Saturday - all classes" race at Dilworth's - Red River R/C Car Club Track is planned for Saturday, September 2nd - 10AM.
Corner of County Road 9 and 1st Ave NW - Dilworth, MN
Stock Slash
2wd Stock Buggy 1/10
4wd Buggy 1/10
Sportsman
2wd Open SC
4wd Open SC
***DATE CHANGE*** Due to a schedule conflict with another local RC event in Barnesville we have moved our race to Labor Day weekend. Saturday, Sep 2nd.
Corner of County Road 9 and 1st Ave NW - Dilworth, MN
Stock Slash
2wd Stock Buggy 1/10
4wd Buggy 1/10
Sportsman
2wd Open SC
4wd Open SC
***DATE CHANGE*** Due to a schedule conflict with another local RC event in Barnesville we have moved our race to Labor Day weekend. Saturday, Sep 2nd.
#115
1/8 E Buggy Lite Proposal
Based on discussions with various people, I would like to propose that the club takes up for a vote the allowance of the class 1/8 E-Buggy Lite. The following I hope will address some of the questions that have come up:
Question:
Are you proposing running the 1/8 E Buggy class on the track?
Answer:
No.
1/8 E Buggy is not a class that I believe should be ran at our track
Question:
Okay hold up, I thought you were going to propose 1/8 Buggies?
Answer:
What I am proposing is not the 1/8 E Buggy class.
I want to make this very clear as there seems to be some confusion as to what that entails. Basically, 1/8 E Buggies in general use 4S lipo packs that can vary in capacity and size. They also use very powerful motors that are larger in length and diameter than a 550 motor that is common to the 1/10 4x4 Short Course Truck class. These vehicles are also significantly heavier than a 1/10 4x4 Short Course Truck.
Question:
Okay, I get it, there is something different here you are proposing, so what exactly is a 1/8 E Buggy Lite?
Answer:
A 1/8 Scale E Buggy Lite is a vehicle that is configured like 1/8 E Buggy chassis but utilizes:
- 1/10 4x4 SCT style motors with a maximum 550 size
- 1/10 4x4 SCT style 2S Lipos
Question:
Is this basically like running 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks but as 4wd buggies with the same power?
Answer:
Yes!
These vehicles are similar in dimensions to the 1/10 4x4 SCT trucks.
The E-buggy lite class started from people looking to run the buggy vehicles indoors in a safer manner than what the traditional E-Buggy configuration offered. As 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks were sufficiently safe to run indoors at these tracks and the similarities between the vehicle types is very close, it was accepted to use a very similar power package for the vehicles which also have similar or in some cases less weight than a 1/10 4x4 Short Course Truck.
Question:
Okay so I think I get the fact that the power plants are the same to what we see in 1/10 4x4 Short Course Truck. Why does that matter for our track?
Answer:
One of the biggest concerns about running 1/8 E Buggies has been the wear we would see due to the weight and power they have. I agree that we should not run those platforms in that configuration. With the 1/8 E Buggy Lites however, the amount of wear and tear that would be seen on the track would be the same or even less due to possibly lighter weights that we see with the 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks.
Fun fact: These have already been ran in some form at our track too in race conditions.
Question:
What?? When??
Answer:
At our Saturday event an out-of-the-area driver arrived with a 1/8 E Buggy Lite that would meet the criteria that I am proposing as his vehicle was running a 2S lipo and 550 motor. After some discussion, we decided to convert the vehicle to a 4x4 SCT so there were no class rule concerns.
We went as far as adding the body mounts, bumpers, and body as well as removing the wing. We left the 1/8 Buggy tires on as another entrant in the class was running 1/8 Buggy tires without an issue being raised. However, we did have the axles with to turn it fully into a 4x4 SCT, wheels and all.
Total time it took to do this was about 10 minutes.
Question:
Wow, so they are that similar?
Answer:
Yes! The vehicle in question was a Tekno EB48SL. This is basically the Tekno SCT410.3 truck but in E-Buggy Lite form. You can then share pretty much all the parts between the vehicles cutting down on the amount of vehicle specific parts you carry. The big thing though for the class is that you meet the criteria I stated above.
Question:
So why don’t people just run vehicles as 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks then?
Answer:
The nice things about different classes is that it offers us more outlets for our RC addiction. Some like Trucks, some like buggies. Some like both. This will offer that option for those who like E-Buggy Lites.
Question:
Okay so lets say we decide to do this, what are the benefits and negatives?
Answer:
The Benefits would be:
- Additional entry fees
- Class for those who prefer to run buggies instead of trucks but like the setup of 4x4 SCTs
- Those traveling from areas like Pingree where 1/8 E buggy is common can equip their vehicles with legal electronics and race
- Those traveling from our track to other areas where 1/8 E Buggy is commonly run can compete at those tracks with that platform.
o Fun Fact: A 1/8 E Buggy lite in the proposed configuration leads the Pingree point series
Negatives:
- An additional class will be added
- More track wear similar to what we see with 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks
Question:
Do you have a proposal on when these should be ran?
Answer:
If it is approved by the club membership, I would suggest the following:
Based on the amount of classes we currently run on the 2 race nights where Mondays has 3 classes (2wd buggy, 4wd buggy, sportsman) and Thursday has 4 classes (2wd truck, spec slash, 4x4 sct, sportsman), I would suggest that we run 1/8 E buggy on the Buggy night since we are allowing right now 4 classes on Thursdays and that appears to be a upper maximum at this time.
If however it is decided to see how it goes before adding it to our nightly program, I would suggest that we look into running these during our Saturday races. This will allow racers from other areas to join us with their class legal vehicles and may help encourage them to come down since tracks like Pingree are more 1/8 oriented and could convert their vehicles over easily.
Question:
So now guys with these vehicles in other areas would have to buy new gear?? Would they do that??
Answer:
As with anything RC, if you want to play you must pay.
The good thing however is that converting over looks to be primarily focused on the motor and battery only if you already have a buggy. If you also run 4x4 Short Course Truck, you already have batteries.
Question:
Okay, so you have basically laid the case out, but I still don’t like it. What now??
Answer:
Seriously, vote what you believe.
Just because we may disagree doesn’t mean we can’t still have fun. As I have always said, I am game to run whatever works for our area. If the club feels that there is a benefit to running the class or doesn’t feel there is benefit to running the class, either option is fine by me and I’ll support that decision.
Question:
Are you proposing running the 1/8 E Buggy class on the track?
Answer:
No.
1/8 E Buggy is not a class that I believe should be ran at our track
Question:
Okay hold up, I thought you were going to propose 1/8 Buggies?
Answer:
What I am proposing is not the 1/8 E Buggy class.
I want to make this very clear as there seems to be some confusion as to what that entails. Basically, 1/8 E Buggies in general use 4S lipo packs that can vary in capacity and size. They also use very powerful motors that are larger in length and diameter than a 550 motor that is common to the 1/10 4x4 Short Course Truck class. These vehicles are also significantly heavier than a 1/10 4x4 Short Course Truck.
Question:
Okay, I get it, there is something different here you are proposing, so what exactly is a 1/8 E Buggy Lite?
Answer:
A 1/8 Scale E Buggy Lite is a vehicle that is configured like 1/8 E Buggy chassis but utilizes:
- 1/10 4x4 SCT style motors with a maximum 550 size
- 1/10 4x4 SCT style 2S Lipos
Question:
Is this basically like running 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks but as 4wd buggies with the same power?
Answer:
Yes!
These vehicles are similar in dimensions to the 1/10 4x4 SCT trucks.
The E-buggy lite class started from people looking to run the buggy vehicles indoors in a safer manner than what the traditional E-Buggy configuration offered. As 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks were sufficiently safe to run indoors at these tracks and the similarities between the vehicle types is very close, it was accepted to use a very similar power package for the vehicles which also have similar or in some cases less weight than a 1/10 4x4 Short Course Truck.
Question:
Okay so I think I get the fact that the power plants are the same to what we see in 1/10 4x4 Short Course Truck. Why does that matter for our track?
Answer:
One of the biggest concerns about running 1/8 E Buggies has been the wear we would see due to the weight and power they have. I agree that we should not run those platforms in that configuration. With the 1/8 E Buggy Lites however, the amount of wear and tear that would be seen on the track would be the same or even less due to possibly lighter weights that we see with the 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks.
Fun fact: These have already been ran in some form at our track too in race conditions.
Question:
What?? When??
Answer:
At our Saturday event an out-of-the-area driver arrived with a 1/8 E Buggy Lite that would meet the criteria that I am proposing as his vehicle was running a 2S lipo and 550 motor. After some discussion, we decided to convert the vehicle to a 4x4 SCT so there were no class rule concerns.
We went as far as adding the body mounts, bumpers, and body as well as removing the wing. We left the 1/8 Buggy tires on as another entrant in the class was running 1/8 Buggy tires without an issue being raised. However, we did have the axles with to turn it fully into a 4x4 SCT, wheels and all.
Total time it took to do this was about 10 minutes.
Question:
Wow, so they are that similar?
Answer:
Yes! The vehicle in question was a Tekno EB48SL. This is basically the Tekno SCT410.3 truck but in E-Buggy Lite form. You can then share pretty much all the parts between the vehicles cutting down on the amount of vehicle specific parts you carry. The big thing though for the class is that you meet the criteria I stated above.
Question:
So why don’t people just run vehicles as 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks then?
Answer:
The nice things about different classes is that it offers us more outlets for our RC addiction. Some like Trucks, some like buggies. Some like both. This will offer that option for those who like E-Buggy Lites.
Question:
Okay so lets say we decide to do this, what are the benefits and negatives?
Answer:
The Benefits would be:
- Additional entry fees
- Class for those who prefer to run buggies instead of trucks but like the setup of 4x4 SCTs
- Those traveling from areas like Pingree where 1/8 E buggy is common can equip their vehicles with legal electronics and race
- Those traveling from our track to other areas where 1/8 E Buggy is commonly run can compete at those tracks with that platform.
o Fun Fact: A 1/8 E Buggy lite in the proposed configuration leads the Pingree point series
Negatives:
- An additional class will be added
- More track wear similar to what we see with 1/10 4x4 Short Course Trucks
Question:
Do you have a proposal on when these should be ran?
Answer:
If it is approved by the club membership, I would suggest the following:
Based on the amount of classes we currently run on the 2 race nights where Mondays has 3 classes (2wd buggy, 4wd buggy, sportsman) and Thursday has 4 classes (2wd truck, spec slash, 4x4 sct, sportsman), I would suggest that we run 1/8 E buggy on the Buggy night since we are allowing right now 4 classes on Thursdays and that appears to be a upper maximum at this time.
If however it is decided to see how it goes before adding it to our nightly program, I would suggest that we look into running these during our Saturday races. This will allow racers from other areas to join us with their class legal vehicles and may help encourage them to come down since tracks like Pingree are more 1/8 oriented and could convert their vehicles over easily.
Question:
So now guys with these vehicles in other areas would have to buy new gear?? Would they do that??
Answer:
As with anything RC, if you want to play you must pay.
The good thing however is that converting over looks to be primarily focused on the motor and battery only if you already have a buggy. If you also run 4x4 Short Course Truck, you already have batteries.
Question:
Okay, so you have basically laid the case out, but I still don’t like it. What now??
Answer:
Seriously, vote what you believe.
Just because we may disagree doesn’t mean we can’t still have fun. As I have always said, I am game to run whatever works for our area. If the club feels that there is a benefit to running the class or doesn’t feel there is benefit to running the class, either option is fine by me and I’ll support that decision.
Last edited by Cain; 08-16-2017 at 12:35 PM.
#116
Tech Initiate
iTrader: (3)
I think open discussion among the club is good and we don't necessarily get time on race nights to chat, so I'll post up my thoughts on this...
It's a new growing club that is getting established. There will be changes along the way and things to vote on. That's how these things work.
I want to first say that I absolutely value Marco's opinions on everything R/C. I borderline stalk his RCTech posts for setup and component advice as he is consistently one of the top couple finishers pretty much anywhere he runs and he does a lot with helping others get things setup and running properly!
During our last club meeting (due to a rain out), we discussed the lack of participation in 2wd Open SC. That class has struggled to stay afloat and as a result we've had more people running Sportsman because there hasn't been enough to fill the 2wd SC class. I think we need to promote and help grow the classes we do have before we try to add any others at this point in time.
Sportsman really needs to be a beginner class that people almost graduate out of and move into other classes. If we have experienced people forced into running Sportsman just because there aren't enough to run a full class of something else, it does have a negative effect on the other rookies/beginners trying to get their feet wet in R/C racing that "should" be running Sportsman. The new drivers shouldn't have to and most don't want to go against Pro-Level competition when they are starting out. It's intimidating and after they run against pros a couple of times with no chance of winning, they'll likely find something else to do. We don't want that. We want the club to grow and to bring in as many new racers as we can. You may only get one chance with some people out there. If they come out, borrow a car, run Sportsman and get lapped 10 times by a pro, they won't have much fun. That very well could be your one and only shot to get that person interested in the hobby & club.
Again, IMO we really need to push and promote the classes that we currently do offer and wait until they are stable before adding more.
We don't want to start adding 1/8 E Buggy with pro-level drivers to Sportsman because the class isn't full.
Right now, our average entries for a Mon/Thurs sit somewhere around 25. Is it better to keep those few grouped tightly into a couple of classes for better competition/full classes or spread them out even thinner with an additional class added?
I'd rather not spread ourselves too thin.
Another point is track maintenance. At this point the club really only has one volunteer that has consistently stepped up week after week to grade the track and keep it in good shape (thanks Cody!). Our track equipment is questionable right now. The tractor actually broke down the last time the track was graded and last I heard, the carburetor needs work before we can use it again. We really don't want to rip up the track with big/fast cars any more than we need to for the time being until we get a bigger maintenance team with better track equipment.
There are alot of projects that need to get done at the track (wire the scorekeeper booth, build tables/benches in it, paint it, build pit tables, bury additional electrical and get wired to the pit tables, adjust light direction, etc.).
Ultimately the less time we need to spend on track maintenance for now, the better.
It's a new growing club that is getting established. There will be changes along the way and things to vote on. That's how these things work.
I want to first say that I absolutely value Marco's opinions on everything R/C. I borderline stalk his RCTech posts for setup and component advice as he is consistently one of the top couple finishers pretty much anywhere he runs and he does a lot with helping others get things setup and running properly!
During our last club meeting (due to a rain out), we discussed the lack of participation in 2wd Open SC. That class has struggled to stay afloat and as a result we've had more people running Sportsman because there hasn't been enough to fill the 2wd SC class. I think we need to promote and help grow the classes we do have before we try to add any others at this point in time.
Sportsman really needs to be a beginner class that people almost graduate out of and move into other classes. If we have experienced people forced into running Sportsman just because there aren't enough to run a full class of something else, it does have a negative effect on the other rookies/beginners trying to get their feet wet in R/C racing that "should" be running Sportsman. The new drivers shouldn't have to and most don't want to go against Pro-Level competition when they are starting out. It's intimidating and after they run against pros a couple of times with no chance of winning, they'll likely find something else to do. We don't want that. We want the club to grow and to bring in as many new racers as we can. You may only get one chance with some people out there. If they come out, borrow a car, run Sportsman and get lapped 10 times by a pro, they won't have much fun. That very well could be your one and only shot to get that person interested in the hobby & club.
Again, IMO we really need to push and promote the classes that we currently do offer and wait until they are stable before adding more.
We don't want to start adding 1/8 E Buggy with pro-level drivers to Sportsman because the class isn't full.
Right now, our average entries for a Mon/Thurs sit somewhere around 25. Is it better to keep those few grouped tightly into a couple of classes for better competition/full classes or spread them out even thinner with an additional class added?
I'd rather not spread ourselves too thin.
Another point is track maintenance. At this point the club really only has one volunteer that has consistently stepped up week after week to grade the track and keep it in good shape (thanks Cody!). Our track equipment is questionable right now. The tractor actually broke down the last time the track was graded and last I heard, the carburetor needs work before we can use it again. We really don't want to rip up the track with big/fast cars any more than we need to for the time being until we get a bigger maintenance team with better track equipment.
There are alot of projects that need to get done at the track (wire the scorekeeper booth, build tables/benches in it, paint it, build pit tables, bury additional electrical and get wired to the pit tables, adjust light direction, etc.).
Ultimately the less time we need to spend on track maintenance for now, the better.
Last edited by 50stang; 08-16-2017 at 03:24 PM.
#117
Regional Moderator
iTrader: (48)
Cain, I love the effort and passion you put into this and the hobby in general. While we don't always agree on the details you are a great asset to our club.
Your own answers raises one of my concerns though. You say in one answer that these aren't 1/8 scale buggies, they are lighter. Then a bit later you say that the guys running 1/8 scale buggy can just swap the motor and battery and come run. I understand the desire to run 1/8 scale. They are tough and handle great and it really sucks to have a car sit on your shelf not being used. I just feel that our track is doing great keeping a 1/10 based system and this could jeopardize that.
Your own answers raises one of my concerns though. You say in one answer that these aren't 1/8 scale buggies, they are lighter. Then a bit later you say that the guys running 1/8 scale buggy can just swap the motor and battery and come run. I understand the desire to run 1/8 scale. They are tough and handle great and it really sucks to have a car sit on your shelf not being used. I just feel that our track is doing great keeping a 1/10 based system and this could jeopardize that.
#118
I still remember being out there with you when you tried to get that one track setup on that land you were able to get authorized to use but then unfortunately it fell through. Can only imagine if we had the group we had now out there what could have been done as that location was awesome.
Ultimately no worries here. I am fine with whatever the club votes for and look forward to seeing everyone on the track regardless of the class battling it out for bragging rights!
And it looks like with the weather we are having that may not be till monday ...
Last edited by Cain; 08-17-2017 at 07:52 AM.