Jon Carlson

iTrader: (48)

How can you have 5 pairs that you know will work but if you spec a tire you won't know what works anymore? If the spec tire is a one run tire so will the tire you want to run.
Right?

Holmberg418

iTrader: (10)

Nooo!

Wade....

iTrader: (2)

+1 thanks andrew for saying what I was thinking. I occasionally off road race, spec tire is appealing to me.

Jakesterama

iTrader: (68)

Really interesting conversation here. I love the concept of a off road spec tire, but I am not sold on the execution as I have never seen it done in person. I would try it in 1/8th scale ebuggy or etruggy. It is hard enough for me to afford tires for a 4wheeler, I didn't last long in the 1/8th scale game because of tire cost. It also seems like the 1/8th scale chassis are all closer in handling when equipped with the same tires, but this might be an ignorant view as again, I didn't last long. Having the ability to stock universal pre-mounts is a huge positive too.

I agree with the 'spec everything' too. If it is open compound, open foam, open modifications, you better believe I am showing up with just as many tires as I would if it was open tread and I would spend the day trying different foam (there are many more options than just open and closed), cutting pins, 1/2 M2 1/2 M3 tires, maybe 1/3 M2 2/3 M3, etc, etc.

One thing I think we all need to do is explain to people interested in the hobby how much these damn rubber circles cost if you want to be competitive. I think anyone here that has raced to win has probably spent as much money on toy car tires as they have on real car tires (unless you ridin on 22"s). At the Benton County Fair race this year (thanks again Sean) when people would ask about getting started I would show them my tote of tires and explain what it takes to get a car that is comfortable and consistent on any given track and condition.

AaronG

iTrader: (1)

I think that doesn't really help people interested in the hobby who may want to try it for fun. Let's be honest and understand that most people understand that any activity that they may be involved with has a competitive side that can drain the wallet as well as time should they pursue that course. Fishing, hunting, swimming, motocross, drag racing, etc etc. All these things, as does RC racing can be fun as is with minimal cost.

Knowing that a very small percentage of people who try racing will stick with it or move to more competitive set ups, there is no reason to shock them into thinking they need thousands of dollars to have fun. Our son is the only one in his school that races and lots of his friends are excited to try it out and his advice to them is to be sure to get a chassis that are accepted at races. One should never let the politics of racing details such as "spec tires" and cost associated to not having them at higher levels of racing, discourage others into joining the racing ranks.

And that would possibly solve alot of issues if there was a huge influx of racers. I read of other venues having classes within classes to offer anyone a flavor of their choice. We can't do that now and understandably so. Even if you had 150 people in 12 classes, then people would say the day gets too long. It never really ends. And while I understand club racing is no where near Nationals, I do believe a few folks from here do well across the states because they put in the time and money into the classes they excel at and get to hone those skills at club races. And alot of those folks have been very helpful in our choices for tires or posting online what works at different tracks.

Personally, I don't feel I could side with a spec tire knowing that those who are there to get better at racing would be affected just so I have a better shot at winning. This only applies to Open Mod classes. And with indoor tracks (we have to try 501 or MMR) I would assume tire choices would "spec" themselves out as the conditions are more controlled than outdoors. And I will be honest and say part of the fun and experience has been getting to the point of actually feeling what good and bad tire choices do on the track. If there was a spec tire rule, we might have lost valuable insights on how our cars work with tuning changes as it relates to tires.

Zach Peterson

iTrader: (38)

As usual this has gone off topic. There are already guidelines on how "spec" anything works. So as far as what spec tire means, most of these people have the wrong idea. "Spec" has been part of racing since the beginning, and done successfully. Maybe this should have just been a post of the established rules. I think you would see a shift in the top dogs if they had no control over ho the tires is manipulated, and a fat stack of tires. Unfortunately you are always going to push the envelope, to get the win.

Kave

iTrader: (17)

Jesus, really? I mean come on. Any kind of spec tire would be track specific and people would still need a pile of tires. As others have pointed out, its not like people are showing up to tracks with no idea what works.

Jakesterama

iTrader: (68)

If you think making on laps on the track and not competing is fun, more power to you. I don't understand why someone wouldn't do everything they could to make sure the car they put on the track is the best car they can produce. It is not fun for me to lose because of my tire choice. It is not fun for me to lose because of a bad setup change. It is not fun for me to lose because someone in a clapped out ride takes me out because they don't know how to hold a line. It is not fun for me to lose to a cheater. If I lose, I want it to be for one reason and one reason only, because of skill. I am not going to spend $10 on gas, $30 on entry fees, and $10 on food to go to the track and be way off pace because I don't have a $40 set of tires. If you beat me and I take a few laps with you vehicle and I am faster with it, I am going to do everything I can over the before the next race to make my vehicle more like yours. Tires. Setup. Add-ons. Electronics. Even chassis. If I want to make laps, I will build a track in my back yard. I go to the track to compete with racers, and do everything I can do within the rules to win. This isn't Field Day, we aren't all winners.

rider313

iTrader: (94)

This whole spec tire thing bringing down tire costs doesn't make sense. The proposed idea to just limit the tread and nothing else won't cut costs, here's why. I like to go to a track knowing what tire will work and have at least 2 sets and a compound above and below what's suggested. Now bring a few other treads that work at other tracks with similar dirt and even your favorite tread. Your at about 6-7 pairs for a given race day. Now if it was just club racing that will be less since you have been there before and know what works, so 4 sets.

Now spec tire. You bring 2 super soft sets, 2 soft sets, but wait, Foams. Open cell and aka reds are popular. So again liking to have two sets per day that I know work that doubles the amount. 2 sets of SS with open, and 2 sets of SS with CC and the same with the Soft tires. So now we are at 8 sets.

So by my thinking the amount of tires doesn't change. Now say local clubs tracks conditions change, damp with overcast or dry and dusty. And the spec tire is for a grooved track. Everyone will be spinning donuts regardless of compounds and foams. No traction results in crashes, crashing makes drivers mad. Mad drivers = less trips to the track. No more racers showing up = closed doors for the track.

Yes I know it might not come to the track closing but it states my point. It's hard to spec a off road tire that will work in every comdition Mother Nature can throw at us. Just do your research before going to a track, buy what's said to work. Bring a few you already have. And your set. Have fun and just race.

Zach Peterson

iTrader: (38)

Why do all of you guys think you would get any options on a "SPEC TIRE"

rider313

iTrader: (94)

Jon has stated several times, just spec a tread, leave compound, foam, and wheel open.

Your suggesting full spec, and were back to the traction Issue with that.

Jon Carlson

iTrader: (48)

Right, my idea was tread only.

I think you math is off though. You said you like two sets of the suggested tire plus two of the compound above and below. 6. Plus a few other treads that work on similar dirt. 3 more or do you mean two of each of those? Now we are at 9 or 12 sets. If I thought of that wrong let me know.

Also, why don't you have to test the foams in the suggested tires like you say you would in the spec tire? I have trouble believing that a tire known to work on a track would go away so bad that cars would start crashing into each other.

Holmberg418

iTrader: (10)

Then if we have traction issue no one will race. Cause its not fun not having any traction even if we are all on the same tire.

Troubles Dad

iTrader: (204)

reading thru the last 2 full pages on the spec tire thread has me wondering, as a racer, what is the best tire for any perticular track, if I knew they had a spec tire class, guess what guys, I would run it, the reason being simple, it keeps the tire count down to a minimum, I have drawers full of tires for 1/10 truck, truggy, sc and the pro4 trucks, but surprisingly enough, only 4 complete sets of tires for the scb class, gotta say Andrew, very nice post about racing, and honest opinion is that I cannot afford to have 180 different combinations for tires for just 1 car, little alone 6 or 7, so what pisses me off the most is when you go to a track with what you think are tires of choice, only to find out they are junk, and have to spend a small fortune to get something better, this really makes me want to go back to the track and race, nope it leaves a sour taste and makes me think about traveling to another track, and besides if their was just one class that had the tire rule, it would make it easier to people who have to travel be able to afford to go and have fun, and Kraig {kiss] that works here

AaronG

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps we are off topic a bit, but my point about educating new people whose interest are peaked at racing should be more about getting them to the track. We started only 4 months ago and want to get to the point as you state, getting everything we can to improve our skill and equipment. We accept the reality that we will need to invest to be competitive in terms of time and money. My point was that if new racers come into the hobby/sport, then in time they will decide on their own whether they are there to have fun/leisure or dive in and get the competitive bug to invest. I can't assume people who want to try racing are hoping to be the next "insert name here" without some lap times of actual event time to see if its something they want to continue doing.

I like to try and educated and direct our hobby in a positive way and leave my pitfalls of spending (and trust me, I have some buying decisions I wish I could take back) out of the equation. Of course if questioned what it takes to be at the top, I won't lie and try to inform as best as I understand it, but will explain its a moot point until you actually try a hand at it. But will point out that a few places do have Spec type racing (Proctor and I think MMR) in the Slash classes for those who want to compete in a budget minded frameset. I am not implying those who want “spec” type rules in this topic to do the same, I am pointing out that for new comers, there are alternatives to compete, have fun, without breaking the bank until they decide (if they decide) to move to more money and time intense competition.

I can see 100% both sides of the tire debate. We will race whatever is laid out and if something changes, we will adjust, adapt, and continue trying everything we can to better our skills with in the rules laid out. The only way to appease both sides is to leave Open Mod as is and have a "Spec" class with those rules spelled out for which ever chassis it is aimed at. And I can't see that happening if the numbers of people are not there. I am not suggesting directors should add classes because to do so I would need to say we have lots of people (10+) to support a move as such. And I know the numbers are not there. But on the same token, I won't ask open mod racers to accept slower lap times with all the work they put in to get where they are (on spec tires) just so I can have a shot of the podium with out putting in the same time and effort it took them.