Vintage trans Am racing Twin Cities and Duluth
01-27-2012, 12:06 PM
#61
Jay mmr wont change so you don't have to worry.
The club racers for lsrcc and torc should do what the club racers want to do... It's their club and they are the ones that race there every week. There isn't a reason for the regular racers at mmr to get on this thread and bash the idea for OTHER clubs. They need to make their 25 racers happy because those are the guys that keep their doors open.
This is a conversation for the clubs to have the next time they meet with their racers that attend and support their club regularly.
The club racers for lsrcc and torc should do what the club racers want to do... It's their club and they are the ones that race there every week. There isn't a reason for the regular racers at mmr to get on this thread and bash the idea for OTHER clubs. They need to make their 25 racers happy because those are the guys that keep their doors open.
This is a conversation for the clubs to have the next time they meet with their racers that attend and support their club regularly.
01-27-2012, 12:07 PM
#62
Suspended
iTrader: (1)
You are talking about $10000.00 for our regular drivers to swap.. And thats if they do not look at the competetive edge. There is not such thing as all motors are equal. take 100 motors one will be faster.. Same with speedo and battery.. Racing never changes it is always the same battle and the discussion on how it you fit it in the box.
MMR VTA club Spec is what we run, just like Duluth does with the Trinity Spec pan car class.. It is great that others have choosen to follow what we are doing and have had this class repeatly show to be equal or the largest class they have running on the track.. Which is exactly why it works.. Club level racing is not about what you can bring to the snowbirds or National Championships it is about what you can do to get your local racers having fun around the track. We have all those other classes when VTA is too slow for you, or you get too many traffic issues, or you just need a break from the class.
I think outside of all the other discussion we have a lot better ways to spend 10k just to race each other in the same class..
MMR VTA club Spec is what we run, just like Duluth does with the Trinity Spec pan car class.. It is great that others have choosen to follow what we are doing and have had this class repeatly show to be equal or the largest class they have running on the track.. Which is exactly why it works.. Club level racing is not about what you can bring to the snowbirds or National Championships it is about what you can do to get your local racers having fun around the track. We have all those other classes when VTA is too slow for you, or you get too many traffic issues, or you just need a break from the class.
I think outside of all the other discussion we have a lot better ways to spend 10k just to race each other in the same class..
I'm talking per individual $200 is not a big investment considering you can sell the other motor/esc if you desire to trim the cost and not if there is a large interest in inter-club competition. Maybe there is no interest, but imho, if I could travel in MN (or outside) as an American to other cities for fun invitationals for a day every few weeks I'd think that was awesome! I mean we in TBay often drive to Duluth & back for a days shopping trip, that 4 hours both ways. Maybe I'm missing something here.RE: 1 in 100 motors will be faster... what???
I'm sure if you an time every motor/esc combo don the exact same race line for 50 laps everything equal you might find a couple 10th second difference... but I'm pretty sure you're name insn't Gordon, Earnhardt, or Jimmie Johnson nor any other club member so I'm pretty positive none of you are that precise in your driving skills all other things in a race considered that you're 1 in 100 motor theory is going to mean anything in measurable terms. I mean geez, feed a buddy a burrito and get him to fart at the other cars as they pass and you'll likely see about as much measurable advantage. 
01-27-2012, 12:20 PM
#63
Tech Adept
iTrader: (3)
RE: 1 in 100 motors will be faster... what??? I'm sure if you an time every motor/esc combo don the exact same race line for 50 laps everything equal you might find a couple 10th second difference... but I'm pretty sure you're name insn't Gordon, Earnhardt, or Jimmie Johnson nor any other club member so I'm pretty positive none of you are that precise in your driving skills all other things in a race considered that you're 1 in 100 motor theory is going to mean anything in measurable terms. I mean geez, feed a buddy a burrito and get him to fart at the other cars as they pass and you'll likely see about as much measurable advantage.
I'm sure if you an time every motor/esc combo don the exact same race line for 50 laps everything equal you might find a couple 10th second difference... but I'm pretty sure you're name insn't Gordon, Earnhardt, or Jimmie Johnson nor any other club member so I'm pretty positive none of you are that precise in your driving skills all other things in a race considered that you're 1 in 100 motor theory is going to mean anything in measurable terms. I mean geez, feed a buddy a burrito and get him to fart at the other cars as they pass and you'll likely see about as much measurable advantage. 
01-27-2012, 12:24 PM
#64
Dude, if you're going to talk to $ you can't talk the collective cost if everyone bought when I'm talking on a per individual basis... or did I miss something and you guys buy the electronics for every club member? I'm talking per individual $200 is not a big investment considering you can sell the other motor/esc if you desire to trim the cost and not if there is a large interest in inter-club competition. Maybe there is no interest, but imho, if I could travel in MN (or outside) as an American to other cities for fun invitationals for a day every few weeks I'd think that was awesome! I mean we in TBay often drive to Duluth & back for a days shopping trip, that 4 hours both ways. Maybe I'm missing something here.
RE: 1 in 100 motors will be faster... what??? I'm sure if you an time every motor/esc combo don the exact same race line for 50 laps everything equal you might find a couple 10th second difference... but I'm pretty sure you're name insn't Gordon, Earnhardt, or Jimmie Johnson nor any other club member so I'm pretty positive none of you are that precise in your driving skills all other things in a race considered that you're 1 in 100 motor theory is going to mean anything in measurable terms. I mean geez, feed a buddy a burrito and get him to fart at the other cars as they pass and you'll likely see about as much measurable advantage.
I'm talking per individual $200 is not a big investment considering you can sell the other motor/esc if you desire to trim the cost and not if there is a large interest in inter-club competition. Maybe there is no interest, but imho, if I could travel in MN (or outside) as an American to other cities for fun invitationals for a day every few weeks I'd think that was awesome! I mean we in TBay often drive to Duluth & back for a days shopping trip, that 4 hours both ways. Maybe I'm missing something here.RE: 1 in 100 motors will be faster... what???
I'm sure if you an time every motor/esc combo don the exact same race line for 50 laps everything equal you might find a couple 10th second difference... but I'm pretty sure you're name insn't Gordon, Earnhardt, or Jimmie Johnson nor any other club member so I'm pretty positive none of you are that precise in your driving skills all other things in a race considered that you're 1 in 100 motor theory is going to mean anything in measurable terms. I mean geez, feed a buddy a burrito and get him to fart at the other cars as they pass and you'll likely see about as much measurable advantage. To your second point a .10 of a second per lap is an eternity in this class.
I no longer think there is any real debate or discussion here. MMR has already stated that the class will remain unchanged. TcORC and LSRCC can make the best decisions for their respective clubs.
01-27-2012, 12:24 PM
#65
This debate is no different from what we have today? I already have a revtech how is telling everyone to buy the same one going to allow me to buy a faster motor then that?
Maybe we are changing the topic? Pretty sure we have more opportunities to get tuned motors at 17.5 and 1 cell batteries with 70c then we will with usvta and more voltage.
Maybe we are changing the topic? Pretty sure we have more opportunities to get tuned motors at 17.5 and 1 cell batteries with 70c then we will with usvta and more voltage.
01-27-2012, 12:29 PM
#66
Tech Adept
iTrader: (3)
This debate is no different from what we have today? I already have a revtech how is telling everyone to buy the same one going to allow me to buy a faster motor then that?
Maybe we are changing the topic? Pretty sure we have more opportunities to get tuned motors at 17.5 and 1 cell batteries with 70c then we will with usvta and more voltage.
Maybe we are changing the topic? Pretty sure we have more opportunities to get tuned motors at 17.5 and 1 cell batteries with 70c then we will with usvta and more voltage.
01-27-2012, 12:47 PM
#67
I would never say the racing we have now is a negative it has been very competitive. I would say that 2 cell voltage will get rid of the fade at the end of the run though so people don't have to buy 100 dollar 1 cell batteries to keep up
01-27-2012, 12:53 PM
#68
MMR isn't changing...simple as that.
LSRCC and TCORC might change, depending on racer's choice.
I say let the two clubs discuss this at their respective club meetings, where they can give everyone involved a voice on the matter, not just the opinion of the rctech superusers that peruse these forums 24/7.
01-27-2012, 12:54 PM
#69
Suspended
iTrader: (1)
Lol silly Canadians with your funny colour money. Guys would without a doubt buy cases of motors and find the fastest ones. Also the speed shops will offer speedshop stock motors. Specifying a motor just makes a good one that much more expensive. 1/10th of a second is not the difference here pulling 2 car lengths down a straight or through the twisties is. That's the difference.
And if that's just the case... then you just validated my comment that $200 per individual is peanuts.
Seriously, did I miss something, are you guys running for big cash prizes at year-end? Because we run for dinky $7 trophies and bragging rights.
01-27-2012, 01:00 PM
#70
Tech Adept
iTrader: (3)
Gimme a break... you expect me to believe for a "fun" class which is the point of VTA, starting everyone off stock,you're going to go out (and most other members of the class) and drop several $1000 dollars on bunches of the same motor to find one a millisecond faster?
And if that's just the case... then you just validated my comment that $200 per individual is peanuts.
Seriously, did I miss something, are you guys running for big cash prizes at year-end? Because we run for dinky $7 trophies and bragging rights.
And if that's just the case... then you just validated my comment that $200 per individual is peanuts.
Seriously, did I miss something, are you guys running for big cash prizes at year-end? Because we run for dinky $7 trophies and bragging rights.
They will be bending the rules and finding that extra 10th every way possible including finding that one in 100 motor. It is the same way at every track...
01-27-2012, 01:22 PM
#71
Suspended
iTrader: (1)
Asking an existing race class to collectively spend $200/ea on a new rule set is ridiculous as a business owner. Regardless if they can sell their existing equipment I would never ask that of my client base. Especially since a driver that is consistently in the B-Main will remain in the B-Main...minus $200.
To your second point a .10 of a second per lap is an eternity in this class.
I no longer think there is any real debate or discussion here. MMR has already stated that the class will remain unchanged. TcORC and LSRCC can make the best decisions for their respective clubs.
To your second point a .10 of a second per lap is an eternity in this class.
I no longer think there is any real debate or discussion here. MMR has already stated that the class will remain unchanged. TcORC and LSRCC can make the best decisions for their respective clubs.
First off, I stated "if the club wanted to"... no ones forcing anyone to do anything... you guys can bring it up, weigh the merits and vote on it if you want, if you don't want to then don't... but geez, don't join a discussion if you aren't going to listen to other viewpoints and weigh them out.
Maybe I'm not in the loop here but do you OWN the race track? Because I have no idea how a hobby shop owner would be against an increase in business. Even if you own the track, your points seems moot because as I said above any club is clearly going to go with what it's majority wants. How that negatively affects you as I business owner I'm confused on.
Obviously any time difference is a difference in overall time at the end of a race but geez, you're focus is so finite in view it's negating your own point.
Mechanical things that are going to affect speed to name a few:
motor
esc settings
radio settings
tire traction
tire wear
tire prep
servo speed
car balance
just about every adjustable feature on a car affecting acceleration/deceleration/balance/corner roll/tight vs looseness
Non-mechanical factors:
race line
consistency of race line
driver skill overall
patience/decision-making when in turns or traffic
do you get bumped during a race? if so how badly and how often?
do you get in and come out of the corner smoothly, cleanly and with minimized loss of speed?
The point is clearly there are a tonne of factors every lap that can positively or negatively affect your times.... but when you start everyone off with core set stock standards of minimum weight, only certain tires/tire compound, only certain motors/escs, and minimum specs for ride heights etc you start everyone off at the same point. Then it comes down to a person tuning/tweaking their car within the rules to their driving style and driving skill.
I could take a car that's 0.5 a lap quicker and still lose to you every time if I run a poor line, over shoot turns, push bad situations and flip my car in a wreck in traffic, etc, etc...
You're talking like you plug in the cars and they go out there and run perfectly every time and every driver is error free........ there's tonnes of factors every race that influence who wins..... how is a stock starting point for everyone bad? Like I said, I don't think any of you have million dollar sponsorships tied to your year-end points totals so I'm pretty sure not many are going to "buy a box of motors" for $10,000 as was suggested by a previous poster to find a 0.1 performance difference.
01-27-2012, 01:30 PM
#73
Jay mmr wont change so you don't have to worry.
The club racers for lsrcc and torc should do what the club racers want to do... It's their club and they are the ones that race there every week. There isn't a reason for the regular racers at mmr to get on this thread and bash the idea for OTHER clubs. They need to make their 25 racers happy because those are the guys that keep their doors open.
This is a conversation for the clubs to have the next time they meet with their racers that attend and support their club regularly.
The club racers for lsrcc and torc should do what the club racers want to do... It's their club and they are the ones that race there every week. There isn't a reason for the regular racers at mmr to get on this thread and bash the idea for OTHER clubs. They need to make their 25 racers happy because those are the guys that keep their doors open.
This is a conversation for the clubs to have the next time they meet with their racers that attend and support their club regularly.
Sorry if you though what i wrote was bashing it was not intended to be that. Just an eye opener that if this rule changes you are fore surly cutting out a large portion of small portion of racers, and as Scott B stated that is just bad business decision. And if the clubs are looking to bring people in the door this is not the best way to do it.
I am 100% support of your comment that conversation should have not posted in a public forum, but on a race day with each clubs supports there.
Jay Shelley
01-27-2012, 01:39 PM
#74
Mysterious:
I think the point that might have been missed and not stated at is that, yes the top half of the amain driver will spend the 200 with out even thinking about it. But what about the lower half all the way through the C main? are those the guy that are going to willing to drop the extra 200? NO. So why would you even consider as a business or club president making the majority of your racers buy something that more than likely they are not going to buy from you any way or even barley afford? That $200 cost could go toward race fees, part at the shop that they do not have (which most of time lower main racers do not have enough of) and so on.
Jay Shelley
I think the point that might have been missed and not stated at is that, yes the top half of the amain driver will spend the 200 with out even thinking about it. But what about the lower half all the way through the C main? are those the guy that are going to willing to drop the extra 200? NO. So why would you even consider as a business or club president making the majority of your racers buy something that more than likely they are not going to buy from you any way or even barley afford? That $200 cost could go toward race fees, part at the shop that they do not have (which most of time lower main racers do not have enough of) and so on.
Jay Shelley
01-27-2012, 02:12 PM
#75
For your MMR Spec viewing pleasure.
| + YouTube Video | |
| + YouTube Video | |
| + YouTube Video | |
| + YouTube Video | |
| + YouTube Video | |
| + YouTube Video | |
