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NORTHERN MINI RACERS, MINOT

Old 10-10-2007, 06:58 PM
  #16  
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hobby plex is not running brushless and 27 stock together because the brushless has way more performance to be a far race. they are running 10.5 and 19t together as they are fairly equal. They think the new 17.5 is more equal to stock.
Brushless is coming, the problem is finding a fair and balanced way of bringing it into the club type racing as many members may not have the funds to compete on an even level if brushless is just thrown into the mix.
I just switched my three vehicles to spectrum, that was a big enough expence for me this season.
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:56 AM
  #17  
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Personally I would prefer not to mix the old 20th century stock mtrs with the new 21st century BL stock. I would like to see a whole new class of 13.5 BL with LiPo. There is only one or two suppliers now for 13.5s so I don't see much of an issue. As with any mtr next years will be faster! Heck take a ROAR stk from 3 years ago and try to keep up with todays. Every year they are changing!

And not too mention just how many different stk mtr are there out there today that are all ROAR legal? More than two! But what happens, we all seem to run the same because that is what was found to be the hottest for this season.

If you allow us to run a new class and heck I could care less if we had trophies or not. I'm sure if you had the class they would come!

As of right now I have everything needed just would need to get a couple of the ORION 3200s. (Safety shouldn't be a issue since they are in a case)

If I have to buy NiMh, then I guess I'll be seeing you guys latter, have fun racing without me.....

Thanks guys.
Bill
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by billneu
I would like to see a whole new class of 13.5 BL with LiPo.

If I have to buy NiMh, then I guess I'll be seeing you guys latter, have fun racing without me.....

Thanks guys.
Bill
Bill first of all it is NMR's race. Which means they setup the classes that will be run. I'm sure, just like at our track, if there are enough people to make a class they will. Brushed might be the old school tech. but it is the MAJORITY currently. Just like every other debate, election, or what ever Majority WINS...

You are always saying how cheap it is to run BL. Currently I have a Pulsar2 charger like most people and it doesn't charge lipo's. New Charger Pulsar3 is $150, new GTB and BL motor $250, and a new LIPO pack $150. That makes it $550 just to race a new class. That doesn't seem to cheep to me. I can buy a new stock motor for $35 twice a year and three new packs every year at $160. That is much cheaper then buying LIPO's.

Brushless belongs in the OPEN class or modified. That is what OPEN means anything goes. Brushless stock belongs in its own class, not with brushed stock. Just like in Nascar or Wissota or any other racing organization, when they make a change and have a ruling every club or track tries there best to follow the rules. When ROAR makes a change to the BL motor rule things may be different. Currently just like ROAR the majority likes brushed stock.

This all comes down to a bigger issue. Why do you race? I know I do just because I like the guys a race with, the competition, and just having a great time. I don't even need to race to go to the track. The best races are not always the fastest or Amains. Some of the best racing I have seen is the B and C mains. I like watching lead changes and very close racing.

Bill if you don't want to run the classes that NMR sets up, thats your choice and sorry you won't be there. But don't make us all feel like we are all against you. It is not like that. I don't email and put posts all over so that I can race BL stock truck at the MN Nitro series races. If you want to race a BL stock class and you can't find a track that does. Build you own track and see who shows up. I hate to say it, but this has been going on way to long about your BL motors.

If your there great if not I plan on still having a great time.
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Old 10-12-2007, 05:52 AM
  #19  
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I'm not trying to tell NMR what to do, I'm asking them if they would have a Stk BL, Lipo class. Nothing more nothing less. If you look at any of my other post they are all just that asking!

I ran stk BL last year once and I am hooked! It is not the speed of the BL because I was just as fast/slow as everyone else. It was because of the maintenance! Period! And now since I personally have no more of the POS NiMhs in my arsenal I will need new bats to actually race at all. So instead of POS NiMh I would like to venture into the new world of LiPos. Not because they are faster but because they are low maintenance. Period! I love the idea that I can get to the race charge my pack (Heck even charge the pack two days ahead) and race. Everything I have heard about Lipos is that they have a higher IR and lower Voltage, meaning they should be slower, so speed is not what I'm after. Low maintance....

I hate having to baby the POS NiMh. I hate having to solder them, I just hate them...... But that is just me.......

I personally just love racing and tweaking just a little...... If I make the A then great if I don't well so be it, not a BIG DEAL.

What it costs should have no bearing for anyone in this hobby, if you can't afford it you are in the wrong hobby. There is only one hobby that cost more than this one and that involves full size race cars. So cost is not an issue, but I would still rather buy 2 packs than buy 6 packs that I have to solder and baby throughout the season. I personally just don't have the time for it during the winter, my job is just way too busy during the winter. But that is just my reasons.

If I remember right we did bring this up last year and I also remember this being tabled until a latter date. We'll being right before the winter onroad season I would hope this would be the perfect time to bring the question up. I do see that Omaha has stepped into the 21st century, just wish the race wasn't during deer season. (Took me 5 years to get my non-resident Mule deer buck tag in ND).

Don't take anything personal about this. But I do seem to be one of the only ones that ever signs my post with my real name! I'm no troll with only one posting and no real name!

Bill Neuhauser
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:39 PM
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The time will come for BL/Li-po..It just may not be now...accept it or not, that may be the truth.
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Old 10-12-2007, 04:04 PM
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Bill I wasn't hiding my name I just didn't think it was that hard to figure out. I only have one post because until know I haven't had anything to say. I'm just tied of hearing about BL.

Mike Seaburg
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here is all my info if you need to contact me.
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Old 10-12-2007, 04:26 PM
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Rusty has nailed it on the head. Whether its the right time or not depends on what the membership of any given club decides. For us (MCRC) it was decided that creating a BL-only class would only serve to dilute the existing racer base with no real improvement in cost or the actual racing. The thing that DOES improve, to Bill's point, is reduced maintenance but until enough people decide that it's worth buying new gear and obsoleting often substantial investment in the incumbent technology to gain that reduction in maintenance it's a hard pill to swallow collectively.

Racing 4-cell 19-T only last season for the ENTIRE season including away races I turned and re-brushed two motors twice each for a total of four rebuilds. Figure (generously) an hour for each rebuild cycle (both motors...probably a good bit less than an hour). It gets up to an hour if you figure the stock motor I rebuilt three times. I'm MAX at 3 hours total on motor maintenance for the season for the entire season last year, and I wouldn't have had to do those three hours had I been running brushless. I may not win much, but I'm NEVER short of horsepower. HP ain't what's holding me back.

Granted if I were racing 6-cell T(axi)C(abs) that motor maintenance would increase. Maybe three times what I did (would probably be overkill, but I'll throw it out there as it weakens the argument below) and what follows STILL holds true, just on a somewhat accelerated cycle.

Now take that three hours and divide it over the cost of buying TWO brushless systems I'd have had to buy. At about $260/car (GTB-4 plus 10.5 and 13.5 motors) I'd have to spend over $520. The brushes I installed in the motors weren't free, nor were they particularly pricey. Figure $3/pair (I don't think I paid that) times seven rebuilds and I get $21 for brushes. So figure $500 is my bogey number. By running my "incumbent" equipment I paid myself $167/hour of motor maintenance. If I ran the second season the same as the first the price "saved" drops by half...but you can easily see that it's a few years out before the "pay" per hour of maintenance falls even CLOSE to my hourly pay rate at work (or whatever).

THIS is the question that everybody needs to answer at the club level. Hopefully before more "Bills" feel they've been left out. Keep in mind this argument COMPLETELY disregards any value of "incumbent" equipment that is obsoleted.

I entirely agree that Brushless IS the future AND that it has a place in the present. At the present it is 100% the way to go in Mod where there isn't a "spec" and there is a LOT more required motor maintenance. In the future when there is either a "spec" or a spec motor they will be the answer in "spec" classes (i.e. 19T and Stock) but ONLY if the above economic argument can be answered satisfactorily at the club level. I'm with you Bill...I'd go to brushless/"spec" tomorrow (assuming there really was one) but it is not a pill our club here is willing to swallow yet, nor does it sound like NMR are keen to either.

Like Racer Rick said here..."I can buy a LOT of brushes for $250+"
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Old 10-12-2007, 04:28 PM
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That said...LESS THAN 9 WEEKS UNTIL WE HEAD TO MINOT!!!

I can't wait!

Scottrik
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:38 PM
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Bill, did I read that correctly? If I don`t have the money or desire to swap my three carpet cars to brushless and lipo I need to get out of the hobby? Maybe you need to pull your head out and take a deep breath. Maybe the problemis you have to much money to be in this hobby with the rest of us average joes.
I`am grateful to the the people that put forth the time and effort to put on these fun events and will abide by the rules they put forth. Bill, if you really want to race , with all your wealth, buying a few old style batteries and brushed motors should be no problem. Or maybe the wealth has made you to lazy to change brushes occasionally.
Enough writing for now, I need to go balance my armatures and crank my comms a little farther.
Go team horse power........................
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:08 PM
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It is amazing how I can wake the dead with just a simple question....

Yes or no..... That is all I'm asking don't everyone get a so all fired up over a simple question. Zeez guys.... and the season hasn't even started yet...

If no then so be it. Settle down guys. You would think I wanted to date your sister or something.....

p.s. I'm really not that good at getting seeb from Mike Seeburg or magnum from Dale Post....... seeb after I see the name but only after I've seen the name? As for Dale and Magnum?

But then again my login is pretty straight forward. billneu

P.S.

Side note Jon if your out there are you going to have racing in Fergus this winter? (Offroad) Nitro is so much easier, 20% or 30% and how long can you go on a tank........ I'm starting to miss the dirt.....
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Old 10-13-2007, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by billneu
Yes or no..... That is all I'm asking don't everyone get a so all fired up over a simple question. Zeez guys.... and the season hasn't even started yet...

If no then so be it. Settle down guys. You would think I wanted to date your sister or something.....
Who's getting "all fired up" Bill? YOU'RE the one who said, in effect, "If we don't create a class that pretty much exactly suits me I'm not coming to play". That's not a yes-no question, that's an ultimatum.

Given my 'druthers there'd be a 19T class. I asked for one last year, made the case why I think the ND/MN group should have one. Didn't get one last year or this. Oh well, I want to race with the group so I'll figure out what classes they're offering that would be my next two favorites and enter them. Simple. No threats, I'll just re-direct my "fun".

Again, whether a club is a small-ish local club or ROAR itself there is a tremendous challenge when there is a fundamental change in technology. The challenge becomes "who do we piss off?" and rest assured regardless what they decide they WILL piss somebody off. You can elect to change willy-nilly into the new tech that offers no 'real' benefit when objectively measured but that everybody can see IS the future but piss off people who can't or would rather not buy that new technology. OR you decide to err on the side of caution and stick with the status quo which pisses off the guys who want the latest and greatest and are willing to spend what it takes to get there. The sword of Damocles hangs above every clubs collective head. As if the decision itself weren't hard enough, then they get the extreme members on either side who decide to make ultimatums about it rather than respecting the decision that has been made (usually by the people who do all other work to maintain the club as well) and going with the flow.

We are at a crossroad in the hobby (again). I don't think anybody denies that we'll all eventually be using brushless motors and LiPo batteries. It's just a matter of how and when. The sad thing is that elements of this already niche hobby insist on trying to divide it into yet smaller parts in an attempt to force their will rather than work together to create a rational plan to phase-in change so it negatively affects the minimum number of participants.
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Old 10-19-2007, 09:27 PM
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Just wanted to let everybody know that this saturday the 20th, there is going to be a swap meet at buttsy's house to try and get some new racers some gear. Im not a hundred percent sure on the time, if u have any questions get ahold of buttsy
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Old 10-19-2007, 09:41 PM
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What a cool idea. How do you guys work your swap meet?
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Old 10-19-2007, 10:11 PM
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i think everone puts there watches in a bowl, and well you know the drill
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Old 10-22-2007, 08:57 PM
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let the count down to nmr begin!!!!!!! 106 hours
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