What constitutes a ROAR legal stock arm?

Old 03-27-2007, 11:44 AM
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BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH Next argument will be whos meatwhip is bigger and why.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by brian cox
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH Next argument will be whos meatwhip is bigger and why.
That one's easy--GENETICS
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:56 AM
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My offer, Masami gets a shoebox powered by a mubachi and has to drive backwards with his feet, he will still wax anyone in MN and ND.

I still hope some day folks will realize that motor is only a small fraction of what it takes to go fast. Setup and driver skill are waaaaaaay more important!

Yes is sucks to lose, but we all have, and it's frustrating not knowing what one can do to go faster but thats racing. You have to test adn learn, use data to make decisions, you can't just throw down a car and expect to win out of the box, it can take years.

If we spent all this energy on organizng racing in the Midwest and helping a fellow racer out instead of sarcasm, think how nice the racing community could be...just a thought.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:13 PM
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[QUOTE=wildman]How many times do I need to repeat this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill never said he could beat Mitch or Randy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He was talking about drivers around his own skill level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scottrik,
What part of the ABOVE did you not read?

Why not give me the 23t and Mitch the 27t and see who win's? I'll take the bet! HP WILL WIN AS LONG AS THE DRIVERS ARE CLOSE TO THE SAME SKILL LEVEL!

You are compairing drivers of different skill levels!

Why not have Bill race you?

I'll take that bet Bohlman!
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:29 PM
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Interesting proposal.

I would say maybe make it a round a beers and wings instead and just patch things up afterwards.

Curious, why only $100 for 19 turn?
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Old 03-27-2007, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cain
Curious, why only $100 for 19 turn?
FAR closer race...poorer odds...lower bet.

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Old 03-27-2007, 01:17 PM
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[QUOTE=wildman]
Originally Posted by wildman
How many times do I need to repeat this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill never said he could beat Mitch or Randy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He was talking about drivers around his own skill level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scottrik,
What part of the ABOVE did you not read?

Why not give me the 23t and Mitch the 27t and see who win's? I'll take the bet! HP WILL WIN AS LONG AS THE DRIVERS ARE CLOSE TO THE SAME SKILL LEVEL!

You are compairing drivers of different skill levels!

Why not have Bill race you?

I'll take that bet Bohlman!

Brian--I may have missed it, but I haven't heard BILL say those magic words "at his own skill level". That one's you. What I HAVE heard Bill seemingly indicate is that horsepower is what's keeping him from running at the front of 1/12 stock...and my point is the front of 1/12 stock are significantly better drivers than Bill. They don't need ANY horsepower advantage to beat him, in fact my bet puts them at a significant horsepower disadvantage.

I'm probably right at Bill's skill level, maybe just below it, but based on what he's claiming it takes to make a stock motor go he should be beating me like a drum because I don't even do what HE does.

No bets on that race--he or I will trade "wins" (more like sixths and sevenths ) back and forth. We're consistently inconsistent.

And don't get me wrong. I think Bill is, all things considered, a heck of a pleasant guy the few times I've met him. I just think he's looking for reasons he loses in the wrong places. I'm losing by every bit as far as he is but I'm comfortable knowing that the vast majority of my disadvantage is my own driving.

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Old 03-27-2007, 01:21 PM
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You guys just don't understand the effects of this ruling do you!

This will effect more than just balancing of armatures!

This has nothing to do with Randy and or Mitch! This effects everyone using ROAR rules! Not just here in ND or MN or SD......... you guys just don't get it!...

Why do we have rules at all?????? The only thing that we can really tech is the weight of our cars!..


When in Rome do as the Romans!

Bill

Again refer to my WHY? Posting! And tell me what of that list you don't do now...... it all adds up guys, it all adds up....whether you like it or not it all adds up..............

Again for those of you that are deaf!!!!! THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RANDY OR MITCH........ can you hear me now!!????
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Old 03-27-2007, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by billneu
Again refer to my WHY? Posting! And tell me what of that list you don't do now...... it all adds up guys, it all adds up....whether you like it or not it all adds up..............
Why do we use wheel bearings instead of brass bushings?

I haven't seen a 1/12 kit with bushings since... This is a non-issue.

Why do we lower the car to the min clearance?

I don't. Run mine at 4-4.5 on our track, ran 3.5-4 on your smoother carpet.

Why do we oil the mtr bearings?

Maintain the life of the investment. Pretty sure they run faster (for a while) w/o.

why do we use 4200s and not 3800s, when we still have 1200mah left in our batteries?

Ya got me there. Higher voltage, able to gear car higher/faster. etc. Paid for speed. Then again, 3300's were plain wore out and my 3800's managed to short themselves out in my battery box, so I really did need new batteries.

Why do we re-peak the batteries?

I really don't. Complete the charge, strap 'er in and go.

Why do we check to see if all of the tire sizes match?

I do this--handling gets a bit wonky otherwise.

Why do we use Paragon instead of the other non smelly stuff?

I don't. Had my trusty bottle of Niftech and used it at both Degelmann races and PKC I.

Why do we use traction compound at all?

'Cause someone told me a long time ago I had to. But I see where you're going.

Why do we cut the armature?

Yeah, maybe 1-2 per season. I finally broke down and serviced my KD 19T motor I've raced all year at Colorado as the endbell almost fell off.

Why do we put in new brushes?

See above. Something has generally gone very wrong if I remove a motor from my car.

Why do we buy new motors?

Pretty much one per season per class.

Why don't we use the motors we had in the 90s?

I will if you will. If I'm not mistaken, those motors no longer comply with ROAR regs. Similarly, a non-issue.

Why did we buy the newest version of the car we drive?

You're talking to the guy who built 2 new 3.2R's for this year, eschewing the newer, supposedly better Gen-X. Saved a bundle too.

Why do we change tire compounds?

I really don't. Though I must confess I actually tried a tire compound change at Denver--first time I've done this since...

Why do we even practice?

SO ALL THE ABOVE MIGHT MAKE SOME SEMBLANCE OF DIFFERENCE IN MY PERFORMANCE.

Why is Stormer selling all of this stuff to us?

'Cause we're weak and will buy it. Gotta pay for Randon's college somehow.

Geez Bill--you should be beating me by 2-3 laps too, 'cause I really don't do much to win. Most of that stuff...just not necessary. I think there is a psychological advantage for some people doing all that, that they pull up to the line knowing their car is the best they can make it. Me...I'm lazy. The day I run two consecutive heats without getting marshalled is the day I start worrying about any of the above that I don't do. It ain't happened yet, so I know there's WAY more time left in me than in my equipment.

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Old 03-27-2007, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wildman
How many times do I need to repeat this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill never said he could beat Mitch or Randy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He was talking about drivers around his own skill level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He never said he could beat them, he said he would be more competetive with them. Which is the same thing. If you intend to be "more competitive" with somebody, that means you feel you can improve your odds and have a shot. This whole thing got started because Bill felt that basically EVERYBODY was faster than he felt they should be.


Originally Posted by Bill
p.s. Bob, 16 years ago when I work at Valley Hobby and raced twice a week I could keep up with Mitch and Randy and you and BB. That was 15 years ago. Right now I'm just trying to catch up again!
Bill
Originally Posted by Bill
Brian or Mitch or Jari are still all going to kick our butts irregardless to what we use! Why not make it more compitive and cheaper (in the long run)?

Bill
And statemtents like this make you look like you have a shot.

Originally Posted by Bill
Well I took 6 or 7th in Minot with Brushless and was TQ until the last qualifier and ended up 1 second away from TQ in Sioux Falls, (Finished 6 or 7th and it was not the Mtr fault). But the Sioux falls race was a real pain running two brushed mtrs in each class. Having to cut them each run and adding new brushes everyother race......
Bill
Originally Posted by Bill
I'm just getting tired of being passed by those others running there so there called stk brushed mts! (no names) That's why I had Brian rebuild my mtrs for Sioux Falls! I was close to TQ in both 1/12 and TC..... with brushed, go figure.......
Bill
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Old 03-27-2007, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by billneu
You guys just don't understand the effects of this ruling do you!

This will effect more than just balancing of armatures!

This has nothing to do with Randy and or Mitch! This effects everyone using ROAR rules! Not just here in ND or MN or SD......... you guys just don't get it!...
Don't get it? Nothing has changed. I think now you're simply over reacting to get under peoples skin for some unknown reason.

You need to do a better job of assembling the COMPLETE puzzle that is your race car and race program.

As I've said before, and this is well known in our industry, the guys that aren't in the hunt are always convinced that the leaders are cheating. Same in practically every sporting event. The guy that can't toss the shotput as far as the guy that won is convinced the guy that won is using performance enhancing drugs... etc.
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Old 03-27-2007, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by billneu
Sounds like stock racing just got real expensive!

Bob? How much did you say a dynamic balancer costs? $11,000 or something? New? or used?

Refer to my why posting! One more ounce of Horse Power to buy!

Bill
Now you're just being absurd. Especially if you think that balancing an already balanced arm is going to get you anything whatsoever. Stop being such a drama queen and go work on your car...

Did you not read the stuff I posted about the Lethbridge race, (I posted it like 20 times). The guys that won stock, DID NOTHING in 1/12th and touring. NOTHING... Not one brush change, not one comm cut. Just ran it.

If the fastest guys were cheating in stock, they would be UNABLE to turn faster laps in 19t and then faster yet in Mod. That's simply not the case.

Typically, the guys in the bottom of the "A" and the "B" can turn faster laps with a 19 or stock than they can with a mod. Why is that? Are they cheating?
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Old 03-27-2007, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wildman
Why not give me the 23t and Mitch the 27t and see who win's? I'll take the bet! HP WILL WIN AS LONG AS THE DRIVERS ARE CLOSE TO THE SAME SKILL LEVEL!
I'll mention it again. There are no drivers of the same skill level. Everybody has a different style and mechanical ability.

I'd like to see a race with you and Mitch, and let Bill do the motors. Leave more room in the "A" for the rest of us.

Tuning your motors is part of racing. It would appear that you are not as good at it as others. There are thousands of posts on this very forum to help you find the missing piece of the puzzle.
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Old 03-27-2007, 02:39 PM
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Travic Schreven won the Carpet Nats this year in Stock and 19T sedan. If you gave his motors to anyone that finished behind him the resuts would have been the same.

Stock is 50% driving, 40% car setup and 10% motors and batteries.

I think most B-main and bottom of the A -main club racers could put 19 turns in, run in stock and still finish exactly where thery usully finish.

If you are slow it because you are slow and your car is slow. Step away from the keyboard and go to the track and get some practice. Work on your car. Make sure the bearings are clean and the diff is smooth. That's the only thing that will really make you faster.
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Old 03-27-2007, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
Travic Schreven won the Carpet Nats this year in Stock and 19T sedan. If you gave his motors to anyone that finished behind him the resuts would have been the same.

Stock is 50% driving, 40% car setup and 10% motors and batteries.

I think most B-main and bottom of the A -main club racers could put 19 turns in, run in stock and still finish exactly where thery usully finish.

If you are slow it because you are slow and your car is slow. Step away from the keyboard and go to the track and get some practice. Work on your car. Make sure the bearings are clean and the diff is smooth. That's the only thing that will really make you faster.
Adrian, you might as well be describing how to glaze a potroast. I think once a persons mind is made up, it's made up.
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