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Sounds like some good ideas. Some consistency would be great. There are 1/18th that aren't scale, some that are, and then you have 1/14th, 1/17th.........
What's "scale" -- is a 1:1 Corvette not scale because its wheelbase is longer than that of a Honda?
What's "scale" -- is a 1:1 Corvette not scale because its wheelbase is longer than that of a Honda?
For our purposes, 'scale' is a reasonably accurate size comparison of similar vehicles. We are not talking about Corvettes vs. Accords, Civics, etc. If a 1:1 Escalade is ten ft. long and a 1:1 go kart is five ft. long, does that have any relevance to our discussion? I think not.
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Midwest Series Director****RATFactor Racing Products**** www.ratfactorracing.com****ratfactor@live.com**** www.midwestseries.com
For our purposes, 'scale' is a reasonably accurate size comparison of similar vehicles. We are not talking about Corvettes vs. Accords, Civics, etc. If a 1:1 Escalade is ten ft. long and a 1:1 go kart is five ft. long, does that have any relevance to our discussion? I think not.
All I was referencing was, for example, that in 1:1 that a Chevy P/U and a Ford do not share the exact same specifications (wheelbase, width, etc.) and that every time one of these discussions get going someone has to chime in and insist that since they're RCs that they should and seek to blame the manufacturers. A little diversity is good in the real world and I think it is in RC too.
Dr.
We are not trying to lay any blame on manufacturers or anyone else. Just trying to establish rational parameters for racing. Diversity is one thing (and a good one too) but, we must have some established guidlines within which we must operate. In the full scale world, would we race go karts against F1 cars?. In 1/10 TC racing, if you show up at a larger event, your car must pass tech. Several parameters are measured. For width, it must pass through the 190mm wide box (200 for fuel). The racers have a lot of latitude, with regard to custom parts, set up, etc. but it must meet the dimensional requirements.
For local, weekly races, it's fine to put cars or racers together in whatever way makes sense to those involved. However, at Championship level events, where people are comming from great distances, they have a right to expect some continuity. Again, I'm not blaiming manufacturers, just trying to get something started that could encourage some to produce cars that fall within standards, just as they do with 1/10 and 1/8 scale. Without orginized racing and a sanctioning body, their is no incentive to do so.
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Midwest Series Director****RATFactor Racing Products**** www.ratfactorracing.com****ratfactor@live.com**** www.midwestseries.com
Dr.
We are not trying to lay any blame on manufacturers or anyone else. Just trying to establish rational parameters for racing. Diversity is one thing (and a good one too) but, we must have some established guidlines within which we must operate. In the full scale world, would we race go karts against F1 cars?. In 1/10 TC racing, if you show up at a larger event, your car must pass tech. Several parameters are measured. For width, it must pass through the 190mm wide box (200 for fuel). The racers have a lot of latitude, with regard to custom parts, set up, etc. but it must meet the dimensional requirements.
For local, weekly races, it's fine to put cars or racers together in whatever way makes sense to those involved. However, at Championship level events, where people are comming from great distances, they have a right to expect some continuity. Again, I'm not blaiming manufacturers, just trying to get something started that could encourage some to produce cars that fall within standards, just as they do with 1/10 and 1/8 scale. Without orginized racing and a sanctioning body, their is no incentive to do so.
Boy......you sure nailed that one. Wow you hit it right on the head!!!! I agree with Duneland 100%. WE DO NEED TO ESTABLISH DIMENSIONIAL REQUIREMENTS AND CONTINUITY. Especially, at a National or Championship caliber event, just like it is done at any other form of RC racing in all the other scales.
Boy......you sure nailed that one. Wow you hit it right on the head!!!! I agree with Duneland 100%. WE DO NEED TO ESTABLISH DIMENSIONIAL REQUIREMENTS AND CONTINUITY. Especially, at a National or Championship caliber event, just like it is done at any other form of RC racing in all the other scales.
there are dementional requirements are the national events... are there for this one?
there are dementional requirements are the national events... are there for this one?
Yes there are. All rules will be posted very soon.
As far as other events go, yes there often are dimensional parameters posted. These often vary depending more upon what sponsor jumps on board, rather than any adherance to any actual scale dimensions, or even historical precidence. My comments here are not made with intent to belittle the efforts of any other Race event host. It is very difficult to try and make fair class separations within the current offerings. Which is the main reason for this effort. Wouldn't it be nice if more of the name brand race manufacturers produced some high-end vehicles for the 'mini' scene? Why should someone put forth the time and expense to R&D a full race version of a 1/18 touring car (for example), show up at a title event, only to find out they could have made it 6mm wider and still be allowed to compete? A company could loose thousands on such a gamble.
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Midwest Series Director****RATFactor Racing Products**** www.ratfactorracing.com****ratfactor@live.com**** www.midwestseries.com
Dr.
We are not trying to lay any blame on manufacturers or anyone else. Just trying to establish rational parameters for racing. Diversity is one thing (and a good one too) but, we must have some established guidlines within which we must operate. In the full scale world, would we race go karts against F1 cars?. In 1/10 TC racing, if you show up at a larger event, your car must pass tech. Several parameters are measured. For width, it must pass through the 190mm wide box (200 for fuel). The racers have a lot of latitude, with regard to custom parts, set up, etc. but it must meet the dimensional requirements.
For local, weekly races, it's fine to put cars or racers together in whatever way makes sense to those involved. However, at Championship level events, where people are comming from great distances, they have a right to expect some continuity. Again, I'm not blaiming manufacturers, just trying to get something started that could encourage some to produce cars that fall within standards, just as they do with 1/10 and 1/8 scale. Without orginized racing and a sanctioning body, their is no incentive to do so.
duneland
I guess we're talking about the same thing and something's getting lost in the translation.
I'm not suggesting that gokarts should compete with F-1 cars, but I am just suggesting that some latitude be given regarding wheelbase as this is something that has changed over time in our hobby and the fact that it doesn't make a car faster or harder to pass. Width I totally understand, as someone could potentially show up with a 2-foot wide custom mini and other cars would find it nearly impossible to pass in a 4-foot lane width.
At the same time if we expect our scale preference to grow and give reason for manufacuturers to produce something new or groundbreaking we need to allow some wiggle room.
Yes there are. All rules will be posted very soon.
As far as other events go, yes there often are dimensional parameters posted. These often vary depending more upon what sponsor jumps on board, rather than any adherance to any actual scale dimensions, or even historical precidence. .
What events are you talking about?
I know that at the Micro On ROad Nats and the 1/18 Indoor Off Road Nats we do not change the rules based on what sponsors "jump on board" Usually because that are all on board right from the start.
What historical precident is there in 1/18 racing?
What are actual scale dimentions of 1/18?
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Dr. I agree that there does need to be some wiggle room, and I believe Duneland does as well. Certain classes such as 18th touring car have been established for several years and have remained relatively pure as to specific size limitations, which was all fine and dandy, untill the detta tc came along. It's physical size is huge compared to the xray and the micro rs4. The claimed 18th scale does not even come close to the earlier mentioned cars. Note, I am not bashing the detta tc, I OWN ONE! but it clearly is larger than the other two vehicals. I am not opposed to minute differences is desinge or size as long as the scale remains close. I also own the other detta vehicals as well, Which I feel do fit in the major scheme of things for the most part.
A governing body for this class of racing may bring manifactures to a more detailed level of scale while boosting the level of performance of these mighty little cars. But if the desinger of these cars remain unchallenged as to size restrictions we may all be racing 12th scale or larger in parking lots again. All that is asked for here is a little uniformaty amongst cars raced together. I think Duneland and yourself are hitting on the same Ideas from the opposite side of the wall. And if that wall was broken down we'd have a bigger better track to race on.
notfastenuff:
I agree, yet I feel that pigeoholing ourselves into a specific formula leaves us just that ----- pigeoholed. I've got both the M18 and the Detta TC and while I've yet to get enough time in on the DTX I will say that laptimes are comperable, and I just feel we need to leave room so as companies willingly participate in onroad, the least popular of the mini's, we're doing ourselves justice and showing interest in attracting additional vendors in the class. Otherwise they'll be but one dominant car, and little reason for anybody else to jump in the pool.
To me it's kind of like SCCA racing, where similarly powered vehicles compete against each other. They're not the same width or wheelbase, but a variety of makes.
I say IT'S ALL GOOD, let's go racing.
the reality is whatever you decide as rules will not make everyone happy.
The thing to remember these are toys and racing should be fun.....
Dont overcomplicate things use common sense and make rules suit the majority of racers....If you follow the model of RC Madness it is a win win situation. Look at the history of the events at Madness and the results....
Nice to see people debateing thinds without being argumentative, but are lap times comparable between the m18 and the detta tc? I don't own a m18, but I was watching laptimes at duneland saturday. the guys running stock m18s (stock there means 5 cell and fireball) were faster than my detta with vr3 and 6 cell. I wasn't runnning foams and was in stock trim. maybe with some chassis work to the detta or atleast foams things could turn out in the dettas favor. but to put these to cars side by side the difference is large. I truely understand what you are saying,and agree very much. But do you have a suggestion as to size restrictions? I'd love to hear em. maybe if enough people got their opinions heard some rational rules for mini racing would be formed. And thats what I personally want to see. I will continue to watch this thread and look for what I feel would make a good set of road rules and see if a governing body should be formed and if it would work.
Berm, about madness, your right thier rules do draw a large crowd and help promote the mini racing I am very fond of. So I wont even try to bash there rules. I just dont agree with all the class designations. I even agree with some of thier logic, just not all. I feel that since they were the first to host a major event in the states for this scale they do hold some president. But the fact is somebody will try to form a governing body for this typ of racing and I look forward to it.
You drive dettas, so do I. But allowing the detta tc to race with m18's just seems a little off to me. As the good doctor said there needs to be a little wiggle room. But the difference between the detta tc and the m18 is alittle drastic, about the same difference between the tc and the recoil. So some one needs to make a limit of some sort here, and now. Or wiggle room may lead to m18's vs. recoils. And the size difference is huge there.
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