RedEnzo

iTrader: (2)

Just to compliment the thread SPEED SECRETS, I'd like to invite anyone of you out there to disclose/share some "tricks of the trade" the art of cheating in RC Racing or, compilation of any one, (name withheld of course)caught cheating be in intentionaly or by accident......or any outrageous or hilariously funny unbelievable cheats.

Why do racers cheat? Glory? Kiasu? you name it.....

A classic case was the recent TAC Finals. The debate was, did the winner of the M-Chasis cheated or did he not? This was hotly discussed here:

Please click --> http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...hip-final.html

RedEnzo

iTrader: (2)

Just to start rolling, let me share an incident that happened to me 10 years ago. I won B Main in the 27 turn stock beating a Singaporean Racer. After finishing the race, without hesitation, I immediately took my car to the control stand to be weight and check for any irregularities..... You know what? The car was a couple of grams underweight from the regularotory 1500 gram rule..... I WAS IMMEDIATELY DISQUALIFIED! I missed the chance of winning a SANWA aka Airtronics Radio

Come to think of it, If I want to cheat, I could have easily (secretly) pasted a few grams before I gave the car for scruteneering. You know, the rules here is a lil bit loose. No racers are suppose touch their car after each race and the car should be parked at the Park Ferme (I hope I got the spelling right). Well, that's not always the case..... So there is a chance for the racers to cheat here.

Well, in my case it was actually all innocently unintentional. During the race heats, I had check the weight of the car and it was a few grams over weight. During the heats, I used the 1800 mah Nicad batteries. But for the final, the battery that I had left was the 1700mah Nicad, without realising it was a few grams lighter.....(don't laugh Eric....)

So, moral of story, please check your weight (I mean the car weight) before every run or you'll only embarass yourself.....

yeahjamal

iTrader: (14)

hi there...

even tough i didnt go for the TAC Finals, but reading all the tread...and i did found that DAMN...some wrong must be going on here n there... fell sorry for the racers who felt cheated... any ways its only a hobby.. cheaters will always be cheaters meh..

MAVICXXX

manusia suka buat benda yg dilarang..tu baru thrill bila depa lepas..kalau tak lepas..depa gain glamour as a 'cheater'!!

yeahjamal

iTrader: (14)

kt cup yg dorg menang tuh ada engrave "1st place (by cheating)" tak??? hahaha

MAVICXXX

bukan kat dahi ka?or 'cheat' tu depa punya mid-name..

mytoda5

kalu i cheat pun atau bagi pusing advand 5 lap pun takkan menang punyee..tak terrerr...so takde problem pun..hehehe

RedEnzo

iTrader: (2)

Problemnya yg cheaters tu depa duk kat depan......bukan back markers. ADa juga case backmarkers tipu supaya tak duduk belakang.... heh heh heh

Still remember F1 year 2000 kat sepang masa traction control masih diharamkan, engine kereta Ferrari masa corner misfiring. Itu tanda traction control was activated.

Kereta lain tak ada pun bunyi misfire. Selepas traction control dibenarkan semua kereta engine misfire semasa corner..... So, moral of story apabila stakes are high. Kalau ada kesempatan even a few reputable team/driver akan cheat to win.....

Mc laren/Ferarri pun sama.....

tan guan hup

Some racers felt that there was some 'manipulation' of the rules. As such, some protests were lodged but the people in charge decided (in some cases, I think) to 'close 1 eye'.

Cheating only happens when a racer is caught and disqualified for not playing by the rules (which should be very clear and 'carved in stone' in the 1st place). Therefore only the people in charge have the power to decide who is cheating.
In football, there is the famous 'Hand Of God' goal by Maradona. The goal was allowed even though the picture clearly shows a handball.

In a lot of competitions, the entry forms will have the clause 'The Decision Of The Judges Is Final .....blah, blah, blah'. So everytime you enter a competition, you are at the mercy of the judges !

With TAC 2008 over and the winners declared (their driving skills were very good, no doubts about that !), we have to look forward and plan for the next race.

BTW, where were you when the TAC was going on ? I kept 1 cup of starbucks for you

mytoda5

yo bro..can i have java bean also..

tan guan hup

You're in luck. That cup of Starbucks happens to be java bean flavour.
Let me check the receipt.... Yup, it says here September 6th,2008 grande size.
I can keep it for you until the next TAC race, OK?

RedEnzo

iTrader: (2)

I heard by rubbing very powerful magnet to your motor can, will make your motor torquey. Is it true? Might it ruin your precious motor if you did it wrongly?

My idea of legally increasing your handout motor rpm is by correctly running it. I have tried a few trick but still from my best experience, the best option is still dipping the motor in a pail of water and running it with a 4 cell battery.

Occasionally take out the motor and check whether the brush is properly set to the comm. Clean it with motor cleaner and continue running the motor as before.

RedEnzo

iTrader: (2)

Very long winded comment from Edison_C with regards to the controversial 2008 TAC finals. Nice read:


Wow! I see this thread is still buzzing with activities. I am just astounded at how long this thread can hold its spot there, although it has been demoted to page 2. But I suppose we all hate cheaters and we are even more disgusted by those who conspire with the cheaters. Is there a conspiracy here? Maybe we should have Stephen Spielberg make a movie out of this and have it titled “RC Conspiracy”? I bet it will be quite a hit, but we have to ask Mr. Spielberg to have a disclaimer and letter of indemnity from all that is involve. After all Mr. Spielberg will be portraying a true story and we would not want the good audiences all assembling in Malaysia waiting to give <censored> claiming against Mr. Spielberg, would we?

To answer a few questions or statement that was addressed to me. mitsubishi, is right in saying that “if there's no root, there's no tree or for every tree there's a root... for those cheaters who wants to win all time, just buy trophy for themselves and face the mirror...” , but you see I would like to win too(although I have not bought trophies for myself and look in the mirror), but I would not be stooping so low as to cheat in such obvious ways, although I suppose if you cheat there is always a way to be caught. It all depends on the inspectors, whether he is smart or just another bloke. In our case here, with the new photo evidences, I cannot understand why the inspectors did not just DQ that fellow? It is that obvious! The root are the cheaters, the tree are the inspectors, but roots grow from a seed, only when the environment is right, it will become a tree, if the environmentis not ideal, the seed with its young root, would just be a root and perish. From what I can recall, Park got the ticket to goto Japan although he is classified as 3rd as Perry went last year and Wu ChakMing went for so many years already. But I guess this is not why we are arguing our sock off. It the principle that we are fighting for here, it is for the benefit for all future racers/races and especially for TACs in the future.

We can definitely understand why one would like to cheat, but why did the inspectors let the cheaters off without a DQ or even a penalty? It is just so mind boggling to me! Is it because the cheaters will not be awarded a ticket to Japan so they can be let off? The other part that I cannot understand is how the organizers can just close one eye and let everything off like that!! The other thing that I cannot understand is how so many racers who participated in the event can just leave everything to a few of us here, writing our hands off and not at least have a little point of view towards these matters, may it be pro or against our views here? To be fair, Amat did contribute to this thread albeit in the wrong way. It is not a matter that concerns you I understand, because you are not the one that is ripped off of your title or position, but what would you do if its you? We should all come together and partition to Tamiya Japan to have them overturn the results. I am not trying to be a trouble maker here, we are trying to help Tamiya redeem itself from all racers worldwide as TAC is such an esteem event(Before 2008 that is), it will be a pity to see that the series would be tainted and dwindle because of its inconsistent ruling this year. I do not speak for all, but I can imagine that at least a few countries are more than a little upset and disgusted by these incidents.

So for Malaysian racers, how is the situation there with <censored> ? Remote control atmosphere? I can only imagine here that it will only get from bad to worse, especially with the new photo evidences that was presented by Sean S.. There are certain responsibilities that a organizer should be holding, but I suppose when you have carpet of that quality, all the organizer and his helpers can only have time and effort to help the ailing carpet, but not anything else. This is just B.S. that these carpets can be laid down for races in the first place. I <censored>

I would also like to personally thank Marvi for showing Amat that there is such an equipment in the RC world, maybe its because Amat is just so enclosed in his little house(OK, its just a figure of speech, nothing against people from HK), that he does not know there are so many things that are available to racers, not with the intention to cheat.

So I would have to agree with Wolf, lets all ring Tamiya and give them a piece of our mind. If not we can always make our point known here for them to address.

Cheerio

yeahjamal

iTrader: (14)

aiyoooo...sorry la mr tan...didnt know that u missed me.....currently i am working in a new place...and i do a lot of traveling...tak pe...next year u can kasi to me meh..

RedEnzo

iTrader: (2)

another good read from another angle by Kevin_CBR:

I am amazed at all the accusations flying on this thread. And to think, we thought we had drama at the North America TCS Nationals. I ran and finished 6th in the A main in what we call GT-2 class. Mostly TA05's, TB-02's and TB-03's. MY teamamtes finished, ninth, third and first also in the A main. We had "hand-out" motors and batteries. We ran the 540 Black Sport motor and 2400 LIPO batteries. In our mini (M-Chassis) class, they used silver cans and 2400 LIPO's. There was a lot of cries of cheating and that the winners of both classes cheated. Even an American who was not even at the race who has posted on this thread claimed "the cheaters won" regarding our Nationals. However, there cries were wrong. There was one driver who had a magnet in his pocket in the mini class who was trying to enhance the strength of his motor magnets under the tech table and was caught and disqualified. Now, the person who won mini was called a cheater and he just "had to have" an illegal motor. Well, there was no tire diameter rule and he ran the radilas that baloon and he stuffed the heck out of them with inserts. This gave him a larger tire diameter than those running the 60-D type A tires. Cheating ? Nope, but many accused him of cheating because too many people think that if someone beats you, he has to be cheating. In our GT-2 class, my team mate that won and is going to Japan was accused of using illegal motor drops on his motor when cleaning AFTER Q1 which he TQ'ed. So, they took away that motor, he put in his second motor (we are allowed to buy two for the weekend) and with many people watching another team mate putting in his motor (as he was busy putting in my motor), my team mate went out and ran the only 20 lap run in the GT-2 class to TQ Q2. Moral of this story, cheating is cheating only when there is proof. The guy with the magnet in his pocket and was caught was cheating. The two guys that won were accused of cheating but were not.

Now - here is what Tamiya America did for the spec motor classes (GT-1 was 10.5 brushless) to ensure no "enhacncements" outside the rules happened. All motors in GT-2 and Mini had to use the stock Tamiya wiring and bullet plugs. You went to tech and installed your motor in front of the tech people just before your race. Your motor had to stay above the table. After the race, you had to remove your motor at a second tech table in front of the tech crew. No spec motors ever left the tech area. On top of this, Tamiya dynoed brand new motors to make sure the rpm's were all within about 200 rpm and gave every driver in the A-Main a brand new motor to run your three A mains with. Now, to do this took about 6-8 people to watch both areas of tech to insure no one tampered with their motors. Perhaps TAC could learn from Tamiya America's tight motor control for our Nationals.

As a complete outsider, here are some observations having read this thread from the very first post.

First - The guy in buggy class who did not marshall. It seems there was a number of languages spoken at this event. We are fortunate not to have that problem in our Nationals. However, it is the Race Directors responsibility to have disqualified the driver immediaetly for not marshalling after A2. Calling him a "cheater" because he did not marshall is a joke. Did he understand the language the announcer used ? Did the race directors go to the driver shortly after the violation to tell him he was disqualified so he would then have to ran A3 to try to win ? No they did not. I read that the race directors tore his car down to check legality and did not return the car (in pieces) until after A3. So, you all want to take away his title becuase the Race Directors screwd up ? To me, the Malaysian driver who would not take his 2nd place awards was the poor sport. Face it, he finished second becuase the other driver drove better. Marshalling or not had nothng to do with him getting beat on the track.

The winner of the M-chassis class - Lots of cries that his motor "had to be illegal". There was "proof" as his comm was a red color, not shiny and burnt in the center. Then comes more "proof". Pictures of the illegal motors them selves ! But wait, one picture is blurred. Then the pictures appear again without the blurr. But that comm is not real red and is not burnt. So, which "proof" is now being used to call someone a cheater ? Humm, looks like somebody is pretty good with Adobe Photoshop or other graphic program. Now, based on other points and comments, it looks like there is more accusing and assuming someone was cheating raher then actual proof someone was cheating. For instance:

Was the person who supposedly had the "illegal motors" the faster car on the straight ? Someone posted to look at the videos of the actual race and that others were faster in a straight line than the "cheater". Well, was the guy with the claimed illegal motor the fastest on the straight ? He should have been.

It is assumed the cheater used a motor lathe to cut his comm. I saw a picture of the pit areas. Looks pretty open. How could someone cut a comm without others seeing or hearing this ? Was he hiding in the bathroom ? Could you take the motors away from the track at night ? Did he have some secret sound proof box he was using ?

Motor shavings in the "proof he was cheating pictures". Now, if a person is going to cheat and use a motor lathe on his motor, knowing the motors will be torn down after the race, you don't think he is going to heavily spray his motor to get the shavings out ? There was a lot of shavings in that motor, not a little. You can get a motor, even a sealed end bell motor a lot cleaner than what was seen in that picture.

Someone jokingly mentioned "fingerprints" but is was a good point. Since the pictures were posted to "prove" a motor was illegal, does the same person have a picture that shows the head and body of the Tamiya tech person who is holidign those motors ? If not, that could be me, holding the motors sitting in Southern Cailfornia while my friend adds "TAC 2008" to the picture using and computer graphics program.

I am not saying anyone did or did not cheat in the M-Chassis class. However, if people consider what the buggy class Champion did was "cheating", then I would question the thinking or motives of some of those claiming others cheated. Having just gone through my own team mate being called a cheater, fully knowing he was not, just becuase he was fast and won our National Championships, I do know it is frustrating to be called a cheater by others when they are wrong. So why, as some have asked, don't the cheaters "defend themselves" and post on this thread that they are not cheating ? Why should they ? Those that accuse them now of cheating are convinced they are and will only continue to call them a cheater so nothing will be gained. I personally would not post to defend myself to a bunch of people claiming I cheated just so they can accuse me more and directly. Would you ?

I hope that you guys can work together to improve next years TAC series. I am fortunate to travel to Hong Kong a few times a year and hope to participate in an HK series race some time just for the experience and to make new friends in what I like to think is a great HOBBY ! Yes, this is a hobby. Most of us racing Tamiya regardless of the country are racing for fun and sport, not to make a living being sponsored.