To Blink and Wink?
01-18-2013, 11:45 AM
#46
And not to defend anyone but I would have to agree their has been lots of drama lately in the world of RC racing. It really has taken the fun out of the hobby for me.
01-20-2013, 03:44 AM
#48
If someone were talking how Letko sucks or not that is FINE with me. I have been experimenting with a balance of track styles with different purposes. I am a little rusty, sometimes I don't have the energy to make some of the changes I would like.
I have always said positive things about Jakes, and Fastlane. I believe there are a LOT more racers who can be invited out of the ranks of R/C owners and we are growing a fair amount of them now.
The fact that we operate with a more open rule set in Stock classes hurts nobody. I blame ROAR either for being short sighted in this area or they just don't really care about stock racing. Fastlane, and Jakes by following ROAR are making a fair decision, a decision that I don't make, but if we make enough noise maybe ROAR will insert some common sense in their motor rule. I could be wrong, but what they have now sure seems more of a game than a competition rule.
I strongly believe a long term fix will come from the use of dynamic ESC timing and an increase in the winds, to a 21.5 or even a 22.5 new motor phased in or announced for 2014. That would reduce the overall potential, but still allow for advance and crisp operation in the class. Heat would be reduced and we would not be heating so much from high static timing.
Let me return to why I posted this reply. I have read nothing slamming Letko, and I am aware of the mild criticisms, that's okay, we are growing and steadily improving. I would invite anyone to come and check us out, if you don't like it yet wait some time and try it again, or not. You are the customer, and I respect your decisions like us or not.
I have always said positive things about Jakes, and Fastlane. I believe there are a LOT more racers who can be invited out of the ranks of R/C owners and we are growing a fair amount of them now.
The fact that we operate with a more open rule set in Stock classes hurts nobody. I blame ROAR either for being short sighted in this area or they just don't really care about stock racing. Fastlane, and Jakes by following ROAR are making a fair decision, a decision that I don't make, but if we make enough noise maybe ROAR will insert some common sense in their motor rule. I could be wrong, but what they have now sure seems more of a game than a competition rule.
I strongly believe a long term fix will come from the use of dynamic ESC timing and an increase in the winds, to a 21.5 or even a 22.5 new motor phased in or announced for 2014. That would reduce the overall potential, but still allow for advance and crisp operation in the class. Heat would be reduced and we would not be heating so much from high static timing.
Let me return to why I posted this reply. I have read nothing slamming Letko, and I am aware of the mild criticisms, that's okay, we are growing and steadily improving. I would invite anyone to come and check us out, if you don't like it yet wait some time and try it again, or not. You are the customer, and I respect your decisions like us or not.
01-20-2013, 08:39 AM
#49
Bill, although some will share your opinion. From looking at this whole mess from this trinity stock motor thing many also argue that stock blinky has made tech much easier and racing closer than ever.
Honestly things are no different then they were in the 90s. Back then you had to find matched batteries with that little bit more voltage and peoe thiught roar should have done something about that, you had the expensive stock comm lathe many thought should have been outlawed. When you look at costs. I remeber back then stock motors were 35 bucks but normally you had to have 2, then you had to have a supply of brushes because the soft ones wore out faster. Batteries you needed 3 one for practice and I remeber to be competitive my dad spent 80 to 100 per pack....so really and not counting inflation how much more does it cost now to be competitive compare to all those years ago?
Funny the timing of the post due the trinity motor so I am betting roar is not very popular right now. But I recommend writing a letter with your suggestions bill and sending them to roar. There is a new front office there so you never know. But it is what we have. Aside from stock motors the tires, wheels, car/truck specs all conform to roar and ifmar.
Honestly things are no different then they were in the 90s. Back then you had to find matched batteries with that little bit more voltage and peoe thiught roar should have done something about that, you had the expensive stock comm lathe many thought should have been outlawed. When you look at costs. I remeber back then stock motors were 35 bucks but normally you had to have 2, then you had to have a supply of brushes because the soft ones wore out faster. Batteries you needed 3 one for practice and I remeber to be competitive my dad spent 80 to 100 per pack....so really and not counting inflation how much more does it cost now to be competitive compare to all those years ago?
Funny the timing of the post due the trinity motor so I am betting roar is not very popular right now. But I recommend writing a letter with your suggestions bill and sending them to roar. There is a new front office there so you never know. But it is what we have. Aside from stock motors the tires, wheels, car/truck specs all conform to roar and ifmar.
01-20-2013, 01:07 PM
#50
Tech Adept
iTrader: (1)
nah i actually took all my meds this morning thanks! but everytime i hear someone from topeka talking shit on letko, i just shake my head. they are trying and doing a damn good job with what they are working with.... if letko sucks so bad, and jakes n fastlane are so great, maybe you should go check out some facilities on each coast. just saying again!
01-20-2013, 01:25 PM
#51
Boost will never be allowed again on the national level. 17.5 is pretty much settled law for stock. On a track like mine there is a 2 second or more difference per lap between it and modified. I would hate to have to tell my customers that they have to buy a 21.5 or whatever to compete in stock after it took so long to finally agree on what a brushless stock is.
We did that enough when we went from 10.5 to 13.5 to 17.5 in the early years.
We did that enough when we went from 10.5 to 13.5 to 17.5 in the early years.
Last edited by FroBoy; 01-20-2013 at 02:04 PM.
01-20-2013, 01:50 PM
#52
Tech Adept
I love this Track.....
01-21-2013, 06:56 AM
#53
Write Roar--- Okay...
Bill, although some will share your opinion. From looking at this whole mess from this trinity stock motor thing many also argue that stock blinky has made tech much easier and racing closer than ever.
Honestly things are no different then they were in the 90s. Back then you had to find matched batteries with that little bit more voltage and peoe thiught roar should have done something about that, you had the expensive stock comm lathe many thought should have been outlawed. When you look at costs. I remeber back then stock motors were 35 bucks but normally you had to have 2, then you had to have a supply of brushes because the soft ones wore out faster. Batteries you needed 3 one for practice and I remeber to be competitive my dad spent 80 to 100 per pack....so really and not counting inflation how much more does it cost now to be competitive compare to all those years ago?
Funny the timing of the post due the trinity motor so I am betting roar is not very popular right now. But I recommend writing a letter with your suggestions bill and sending them to roar. There is a new front office there so you never know. But it is what we have. Aside from stock motors the tires, wheels, car/truck specs all conform to roar and ifmar.
Honestly things are no different then they were in the 90s. Back then you had to find matched batteries with that little bit more voltage and peoe thiught roar should have done something about that, you had the expensive stock comm lathe many thought should have been outlawed. When you look at costs. I remeber back then stock motors were 35 bucks but normally you had to have 2, then you had to have a supply of brushes because the soft ones wore out faster. Batteries you needed 3 one for practice and I remeber to be competitive my dad spent 80 to 100 per pack....so really and not counting inflation how much more does it cost now to be competitive compare to all those years ago?
Funny the timing of the post due the trinity motor so I am betting roar is not very popular right now. But I recommend writing a letter with your suggestions bill and sending them to roar. There is a new front office there so you never know. But it is what we have. Aside from stock motors the tires, wheels, car/truck specs all conform to roar and ifmar.
In the end the customers will get what they want, ROAR or not.
01-21-2013, 07:06 AM
#55
"Part of the resistance to ESC timing comes from those who have perfected the blinky mode, they do not want other drivers to be the same speed as they are." - Bill Williams.
"I can impose rules which create fairness and sportsmanship, that I can defend, there is no way to explain or defend the idea that you can advance however you like on the motor, but you can't do the same in the ESC. To me it is not a discussion worth having." - Bill Williams.
Both statements sound very logical to me...does logic rule in America today?...nope!...can logic compete in America today?...there were over 50 entries at Letko (RCR MS) Saturday night...
"I can impose rules which create fairness and sportsmanship, that I can defend, there is no way to explain or defend the idea that you can advance however you like on the motor, but you can't do the same in the ESC. To me it is not a discussion worth having." - Bill Williams.
Both statements sound very logical to me...does logic rule in America today?...nope!...can logic compete in America today?...there were over 50 entries at Letko (RCR MS) Saturday night...
01-21-2013, 07:19 AM
#56
Timeline
Boost will never be allowed again on the national level. 17.5 is pretty much settled law for stock. On a track like mine there is a 2 second or more difference per lap between it and modified. I would hate to have to tell my customers that they have to buy a 21.5 or whatever to compete in stock after it took so long to finally agree on what a brushless stock is.
We did that enough when we went from 10.5 to 13.5 to 17.5 in the early years.
We did that enough when we went from 10.5 to 13.5 to 17.5 in the early years.
I'm curious, you mention it took a long time to go from 10.5-17.5, that was clearly prior to advancing ESC's.
I'm guessing the rational was to create a stock class which was more drivable and better for the sportsman and learning masses, whatever you want to call them.
With the advent of improved technology i.e.: ESC-Timing advance, wouldn't it make sense to at least review the clearly arbitrary choice of a 17.5, and add in the possibility of ESC advance and review the choice in light of the problems it creates?
A variable timing is clearly a better and more efficient use of brushless motors. Since it was not around at the time of the decision to go 17.5, perhaps a review would be in order. Not making it today's rule, but phase it in.
ROAR is not going to tell TRAXXAS what to do, nor is any hobby store. This type of consumer (Traxxas buyers) are supporting most all the sport. Instead of digging in and saying never, they might be better served to be responsive and create a solution which addresses more factors without conflict.
Do you know the argument or reasoning to allow end-bell timing but not ESC timing? To me that makes little sense, or I'm just not getting it.
01-21-2013, 07:23 AM
#57
"Part of the resistance to ESC timing comes from those who have perfected the blinky mode, they do not want other drivers to be the same speed as they are." - Bill Williams.
"I can impose rules which create fairness and sportsmanship, that I can defend, there is no way to explain or defend the idea that you can advance however you like on the motor, but you can't do the same in the ESC. To me it is not a discussion worth having." - Bill Williams.
Both statements sound very logical to me...does logic rule in America today?...nope!...can logic compete in America today?...there were over 50 entries at Letko (RCR MS) Saturday night...
"I can impose rules which create fairness and sportsmanship, that I can defend, there is no way to explain or defend the idea that you can advance however you like on the motor, but you can't do the same in the ESC. To me it is not a discussion worth having." - Bill Williams.
Both statements sound very logical to me...does logic rule in America today?...nope!...can logic compete in America today?...there were over 50 entries at Letko (RCR MS) Saturday night...
01-21-2013, 07:31 AM
#58
Letko Name Change
"Part of the resistance to ESC timing comes from those who have perfected the blinky mode, they do not want other drivers to be the same speed as they are." - Bill Williams.
"I can impose rules which create fairness and sportsmanship, that I can defend, there is no way to explain or defend the idea that you can advance however you like on the motor, but you can't do the same in the ESC. To me it is not a discussion worth having." - Bill Williams.
Both statements sound very logical to me...does logic rule in America today?...nope!...can logic compete in America today?...there were over 50 entries at Letko (RCR MS) Saturday night...
"I can impose rules which create fairness and sportsmanship, that I can defend, there is no way to explain or defend the idea that you can advance however you like on the motor, but you can't do the same in the ESC. To me it is not a discussion worth having." - Bill Williams.
Both statements sound very logical to me...does logic rule in America today?...nope!...can logic compete in America today?...there were over 50 entries at Letko (RCR MS) Saturday night...
The week we should put the expansion to bed, then I will make it all published beyond a BBS or forum...
Getting back to timing, it seems odd to allow the literal meltdown of motors from physical timing advance but outlaw the more practical and efficient use of dynamic advance.
You do see where ROAR is going GREEN and starting to promote 4-strokes in 1/8th scale. Isn't it more GREEN to save energy and use it more efficiently as in dynamic timing? What if we had to drive our Chevrolet, Fords, and automobiles without dynamic timing, they would terrible and inefficient.
How can they defend a rule which assures the waste of resources? In melted motors, energy converted to heat instead of motion? One might extrapolate the numbers and discover megawatts of energy being wasted in a year or so!
SAVE THE EARTH, ALLOW DYNAMIC TIMING!