R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > North American Regional Forums > Kansas/Missouri Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-21-2009, 01:39 PM   #151
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,264
Trader Rating: 33 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TfnG View Post
so...im new to this on road stuff also. not sure which class i should try...1/12or touring car? is one considered easier to tune and be competitive?

also, the motor and battery topic. i wanna run 17.5 class...and i wanna run a brushless motor. what are my options in each class?

and finally, will the track be open for road course practice any day of the week?
I think you should start in 1/12th scale. 1/12th will be easier to drive and set up, and you also get to race for 8 minutes, but you do have to run foam tires. You can either run a 17.5 brushless motor with a 4cell NIMH battery, or a 13.5 brushless motor with a single cell LiPo. These will run in the same class together as they are about the same speed. LiPo will be easier to maintain. The cars I recomend for LiPo are the AE, BMI, or the CRC. You could run a 12L or XII (T-Bar Cars) if you run the LiPo on one side with the electronics on the other, and maybe a little weight to balance the car. But if you run 4cell NiMh any of the cars are great. There will be more new racers running 1/12th than TC so you won't be the only rookie running. Just remember when you run, some of us have been doing this for many years and the talent level and knowledge in road course in this area is second to none! So don't be intimidated by some of us, we are really there to help the new guy, and get practice ourselves. So if you have a question, don't hesitate to ask. This has been the main issue I have seen in this area in carpet racing, new racers get scared because they see the equipment and skill of some of the top racers and feel like they can't compete, just remember we were all rookies at one time, and the only way to get better is to practice!

TC rubber on the other hand is a little more expensive to start in, and a little harder to drive, but you can run 17.5 motor with a regular LiPo with no problems, plus the tires will last longer. TC's are harder to set-up and maintain, plus they hit the walls alot harder.

And I think they are going to leave the road coarse set up most nights, but I'm not for sure. I imagine at first that is what will mostly be ran.
__________________
Chris Lockhart

**TEAM RCAMERICA**XRAY**HUDY**PROLEVEL RC**
chensleyrc1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 02:17 PM   #152
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 904
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default

I have to agree and disagree with Chris in that I think a TC is easier to drive than 1/12 scale IF the car is set up right, primarily because it's a little (not much) slower and it's four wheel drive. 1/12 scale being a little quicker and VERY responsive can be tough for new guys as they expect them to drive like an off road car and turn in way too early in the corners. It's all about timing and having the car set up right. The biggest mistake I see with new guys in 1/12 scale is that they have their turning radius set waaaaay too tight, making the car twitchy and too agressive. I've always set my cars up to push just a little which makes it easier to drive and if my timing is off a little I will end up blowing past a corner instead of turning in to a board. A missed corner cost you about .01-.02 seconds where a hit board can cost you 3-4 seconds if you have to be marshalled. My car usually takes about 3/4 of the lane width to turn around and most new guys want their car to be able to turn around on their pit table. All this will do is scrub off spead in the corners unless you are very, very controlled with the sterring wheel. I'm a lock to lock kinda guy so I have to build the car accordingly.

When I first started racing 1/12 scale at big races 20 years ago I always wanted to have the fastest car but soon found out that it's more about being able to run for 8 min. with as little as .02-.03 spread across all the laps. The guy that runs clean for 8 minutes will be in the top 10 no matter how slow his car is. Frequently the guys posting the fast laps of the weekend end up in the B main because of mistakes.
SteveL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 03:45 PM   #153
Tech Master
 
TfnG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 1,262
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

thanks for the information you guys. it left me with....i still dont no where to start!! haha. i think id like to stay away from foam tires. i see everywhere on here talk about shaving them, then re gearing the car, etc. that is just 1 more pain.

1 other question. ive also seen talk of traction compounds. does that apply to rubber and foam? or just foam?

ok, 1 more. where can i find a 1s lipo?
TfnG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 05:50 PM   #154
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 904
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TfnG View Post
thanks for the information you guys. it left me with....i still dont no where to start!! haha. i think id like to stay away from foam tires. i see everywhere on here talk about shaving them, then re gearing the car, etc. that is just 1 more pain.

1 other question. ive also seen talk of traction compounds. does that apply to rubber and foam? or just foam?

ok, 1 more. where can i find a 1s lipo?
Shaving foam is not a big deal. Take the new tires out of the package and run them. As they wear, you go up in pinion to maintain the roll out you want. If you want, you can start the tires at 1.75"/44.5mm for the rear and 1.65"/42.0mm for the frt and get a bunch of runs out of them. The newer foam compounds last a lot longer than the old green foam of long ago. I think changing a pinion gear once a week is a lot less work than building four shocks. A number of us will have truing machines and more than willing to cut some tires for you. About the only time you need a tire truer is when they are new if you manage your tires well and swap sides every other run so they wear evenly and you have the camber set right in the front so they wear flat.

Most guys use traction compounds on both foam and rubber. The compound of choice will be Jack the Gripper which is not near as nasty as Paragon. Yea, Paragon works better, but a lot of people can't stand the smell, so most tracks are banning it. I personaly have no problems with the Paragon but that may be due to all of the dead sensory cells that have come from using it for years. I do however miss that wintergreen smell.

The only place I've seen 1s lipo's being marketed is from SMC but I've also seen some guys taking a 2s saddle pack and just splitting it in to two packs. You can check the Single Cell Hardcase Lipo thread in the Electric On Road forum for more info.
SteveL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 07:12 PM   #155
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,264
Trader Rating: 33 (100%+)
Default

I think I would still go with the 1/12th scale, like Steve said, TC's are great when they are set up right, but it takes a little more work to get it right. And there is alot less to break on a 1/12th scale.
Personally, I turn faster lap times with my foam TC than 1/12th, but thats just me
__________________
Chris Lockhart

**TEAM RCAMERICA**XRAY**HUDY**PROLEVEL RC**
chensleyrc1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 08:28 PM   #156
Tech Adept
 
Merminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Creve Couer
Posts: 193
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

I would go with the 1/12 scale. Fun and pretty easy to set up for the most part. Not as much maintenance as a touring car. I'll be back there with you letting the "fast" guys lap me too.
Merminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 09:03 PM   #157
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,834
Trader Rating: 195 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TfnG View Post
thanks for the information you guys. it left me with....i still dont no where to start!! haha. i think id like to stay away from foam tires. i see everywhere on here talk about shaving them, then re gearing the car, etc. that is just 1 more pain.

1 other question. ive also seen talk of traction compounds. does that apply to rubber and foam? or just foam?

ok, 1 more. where can i find a 1s lipo?
I can appreciate that no one is saying get 1 brand of car Nice to see this happening in this thread. As onroad has so many good choices for brand of car.

Now to answer your question, you will want to go touring car. Let me explain... with TC rubber, once you get a setup you will not touch your car. You will not have to worry about ride height changes, truing tires, gear ratio changes. Since you would be running 17.5 lipo most likely (you can still run brushed and sub c if you want) you will not have to do anything but oil the bearings in the motor and keep the lipo charged and balanced. This all adds up to a huge amount of track time and their chance to tune the car when you want.

Now 12 scale does take a little more set up knowledge. When 12 scale is not set up correctly they are the worst to drive. They have a very quick response to input. They are fun to drive when you can drive it and they are set up. Now they do run foam tires, so you will have to adjust ride height, gear ratio, you will chunk tires. If you are just starting out in racing on a track 12 scale will be difficult.

Now Chris and Steve are correct in the amount of experience you will find at the on road track. All of us seasoned guys (some are overly seasoned...cough cough Steve) are more than happy to help a new guy out.

I know Drew, a past ROAR national champ will be at the track often. As he only lives about 6 minutes from the track. He really likes to help out on set ups. Larry is another great guy to ask questions on set up.


Traction compound works on both rubber and foam. Corally Jack the Gripper will be the stuff to use. As this is the only stuff you will be allowed to use at the track. This stuff hardly has a scent to worry about. You will also be able to buy it at the track.

You can order an SMC 1 cell pack at Glidescope. The part number is SMC4025S.

I hope this helps.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 09:13 PM   #158
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 904
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy View Post
All of us seasoned guys (some are overly seasoned...cough cough Steve)
Thanks Kev! So how did the maiden run of the X12 go today?
SteveL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 09:24 PM   #159
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,834
Trader Rating: 195 (99%+)
Default

OK a small practice report.

I went to Carbondale, ILL to an indoor carpet track. Some of you know of this track. It is 2 hours away, not a bad drive. I ran 13.5 rubber and 17.5 12 scale. This was my first night on the 12 scale. I ran the new Xray XII with Jaco Lilac front and yellow rears. I also used sub C cells. Now even thought I run for Xray I will have bias. But I also try to be honest if any thing is good or bad from my opinion. With the box set up the car was very easy to drive. It had very smooth turn in with a very linear amount of mid corner steering with a slight push on corner exit under power. With a little caster change this can be eliminated. I did run the Protoform Speed 12 body. I did not try the Speed 12b that I had with me. Since I only had 1 battery pack with me I did not have time to run the second body. Overall the instructions on the Xray 12 scale was amazing for a 12 scale. The design is old but the refinement that Xray made to the design works on the track. I rolled out a 85mm that is right a 78 spur with a 47 pinion and a 45mm tire. I know a large tire, but they were new with a truing done. At this point I can not find a down side to this car or design.

Now for touring car. The car was bad when I got there. I first had to much droop. So I went to 1mm up travel on the rear droop. This helped the car, as the car was spinning off power in a turn if I gave a little to much turn in. So to much weight transfer to the front. I made a few other changes, like a larger rear sway bar and leaned the shocks in some, this all helped. The last change I made was I added 1mm to the rear camber link at the hub. This was a huge change. The car was planted on power with no more spinning out off power. I was able to turn a 10.0 lap time for my fast lap. 9.8 was a locals fast lap on the current layout. I had a blast driving the 13.5 rubber car. It was fast and stable. It was one of those days of practice when you walked off the driver stand with a big smile because it was a good day at the track.

I look forward to our new track opening up and having some fun racing and rubbing doors with you local guys.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel

Last edited by dodgeguy; 02-21-2009 at 09:42 PM.
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 09:31 PM   #160
Tech Master
 
TfnG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 1,262
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

thanks for all the help guys. im leaning toward getting a tc5r. then i can use the same lipo's i run in my off road trucks.

in TC 17.5, will they run a 13.5 if running a brushless/lipo setup like 1/12 class?

do all classes run 8 minute races?
TfnG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2009, 09:39 PM   #161
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,834
Trader Rating: 195 (99%+)
Default

TC will be 17.5 lipo and 13.5 lipo.

The TC5r car is a good car. You will find allot of online setup support for the car. This is a very popular car. Glidescope can also order the car for you. They are also looking at a deal where if you buy a car kit from them you get 1 free race pass and a practice day pass. Good deal if you ask me.

TC is 5 minutes, however ROAR is going 6 minutes at all the electric nationals this year. 12 scale is 8 minutes. I would like to run 6 minute TC races. I do not think we will have a problem with running races to late into the night at first.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2009, 07:48 AM   #162
Tech Master
 
TfnG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 1,262
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

what's everyone think of this car?

TC5 Team Associated TC5R - Clean, Lots of Spares and Upgrades + PPD Setup Plate

looks to be in great shape from a racer in ohio. maybe some of you know him? id like to buy new, but this come with lots of spares and looks very fresh for a nice price.
TfnG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2009, 08:04 AM   #163
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,834
Trader Rating: 195 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TfnG View Post
what's everyone think of this car?

TC5 Team Associated TC5R - Clean, Lots of Spares and Upgrades + PPD Setup Plate

looks to be in great shape from a racer in ohio. maybe some of you know him? id like to buy new, but this come with lots of spares and looks very fresh for a nice price.
That would be Tim Sullivan. I raced with him when I lived in Ohio. Nice and and keeps his still in great shape.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2009, 08:13 AM   #164
Tech Addict
 
jcm2mt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 708
Trader Rating: 36 (100%+)
Default pm

yhpm
jcm2mt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2009, 04:29 PM   #165
Tech Master
 
TfnG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 1,262
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

picked up a TC5R !
TfnG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
St. Louis Dirt Burners bigBoyBigToy Kansas/Missouri Racing 11459 09-18-2017 08:17 AM
Fastlane Raceway kansasracer Kansas/Missouri Racing 17300 08-18-2017 04:41 AM
SmacTrac...St.Louis Indoor Off Road smac Kansas/Missouri Racing 24520 04-01-2015 03:02 PM
Saint Louis Carpet Racing!!! evostyle Kansas/Missouri Racing 1379 02-07-2009 08:11 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 07:21 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net