Vintage RC10 built for modern racing
01-24-2011, 07:52 PM
#46
Jeff, as usual your vintage cars are works of art! Very well done! Cant wait to see this race!
01-25-2011, 05:51 AM
#47
Jimmie Cooper and hayden will running at the spring fling also. The cars are being now and our tekin power is here. Can't wait
01-25-2011, 07:39 AM
#48
It would be great to see a large turnout for this race, especially in the vintage class. I know there's plenty of you guys out there (Ruona, Rooster, Kowal, Fulp, Roly, Sumasky, John G....) that have cars ready to go. Last time I talked to him Jay Halsey said he would be here too. Perhaps he will also be sporting a Harris built RC10 in the vintage class. That alone would be worth it; to race a vintage class with the 1st ever IFMAR off road 1/10 world champion!
If all that isn't enough keep in mind that I am donating a new built RC10 for the winner. The car will use all new parts and will be built to the same standards as my current race vehicle. There are no short cuts or cheap parts on this one!
I'd be happy to help anyone wanting to build a car. Finding parts isn't easy and there's no need to do all the work to find them if it's already been done.
01-26-2011, 05:20 PM
#49
Hey Jeff this syndrome is very addictive and you are spreading this like an infection to a lot of people, keep it going man. 
Very cool cars.
A good infection I have to add.
Very cool cars.
A good infection I have to add.
02-02-2011, 07:38 AM
#50
There has been some question lately about how "vintage" the cars I have built are and if they fit the true spirit of a "vintage" class. Let me address the known areas of concern individually:
Shocks and shock towers-
My cars are equipped with carbon fiber shock towers. The rear is an exact copy of the RC10 worlds rear tower. The original part is no longer available and when found on eBay goes for over $50. The front is also an exact copy, but adds a row of mounting holes above the stock mounting holes. This allows the use of the .89 front shock. The original world's front tower is also unavailable and in excess of $50 when they come up on eBay.
The shocks I use on my cars now are 1.32" rear bodies with 1.02" shafts and .89" front bodies with .71" shafts. The rears are the same dimension as the stock RC10 shocks. The only difference between the stock RC10 shock and the ones I run is the outer threading. This isn't all that "modern" since the RC10 I raced from 1986-1994 had threaded shocks. The front shocks are in fact B4 parts. The reason for this is the availability of the .71 shocks. Part of the fun of vintage is racing what we had back then. It shouldn't cost a fortune to do it and finding new parts that are no longer available will drive the cost through the roof. Additionally, the .18" longer body and outer threading offers NO performance advantage.
Slipper shaft-
The Stealth slipper shaft IS still available, but the slipper assembly is NOT. The B4 shaft can be used and offers the same ratio. The B4 slipper offers no advantage. For me, I actually prefer the original Stealth slipper since the spur gear can be changed without removing the slipper or changing the settings. This modification is (as with the shocks/towers) because of parts availability. With no performance advantage, I fail to see the issue.
Tire/wheel adapting-
My original "modernized" RC10's used B4 carriers, caster blocks, axles, CVD's and more just to run the modern tires/wheels. The original wheels are no longer available. They go for about $25+ per pair on eBay. With those prices an alternative is necessary. So, I created an option that allows adapting the tires/wheels most of us already have in our tool boxes. Again, keeping cost down was the point. Since then I have found an alternative that allows keeping 100% of the stock RC10 suspension components. This comes by using Thunder Tiger rear wheels and Duratrax front wheels. They are dimensionally the same as the original wheels and readily available. My cars have all been converted.
Driving a vintage car is unlike driving a modern car in every way. For some, it is reliving the glory days and for others it's an opportunity to get more track time and run a car that's a completely different animal. Whatever the reason for running a vintage car, those who do enjoy it! The rules established are not written in stone and certainly not governed by any sanctioning body since vintage is not a recognized class. If someone feels there is a performance advantage to running a threaded shock body or a front shock that is .18" longer (but available) then come see me. Look at my car. Drive it. You will see that the modern parts on my car are there because they are available.
Although my own car uses carbon towers and threaded shocks (no other mods), I will build cars for Josh and Jeremy for the Spring Fling that will use fiberglass towers and smooth body 1.32/.71 shocks so there is no issue. Their cars will also be equipped with the Stealth slipper. It will be obvious (and should already be obvious by watching Ruffy) that there is NO performance advantage to a carbon tower or .18" longer shock.
Shocks and shock towers-
My cars are equipped with carbon fiber shock towers. The rear is an exact copy of the RC10 worlds rear tower. The original part is no longer available and when found on eBay goes for over $50. The front is also an exact copy, but adds a row of mounting holes above the stock mounting holes. This allows the use of the .89 front shock. The original world's front tower is also unavailable and in excess of $50 when they come up on eBay.
The shocks I use on my cars now are 1.32" rear bodies with 1.02" shafts and .89" front bodies with .71" shafts. The rears are the same dimension as the stock RC10 shocks. The only difference between the stock RC10 shock and the ones I run is the outer threading. This isn't all that "modern" since the RC10 I raced from 1986-1994 had threaded shocks. The front shocks are in fact B4 parts. The reason for this is the availability of the .71 shocks. Part of the fun of vintage is racing what we had back then. It shouldn't cost a fortune to do it and finding new parts that are no longer available will drive the cost through the roof. Additionally, the .18" longer body and outer threading offers NO performance advantage.
Slipper shaft-
The Stealth slipper shaft IS still available, but the slipper assembly is NOT. The B4 shaft can be used and offers the same ratio. The B4 slipper offers no advantage. For me, I actually prefer the original Stealth slipper since the spur gear can be changed without removing the slipper or changing the settings. This modification is (as with the shocks/towers) because of parts availability. With no performance advantage, I fail to see the issue.
Tire/wheel adapting-
My original "modernized" RC10's used B4 carriers, caster blocks, axles, CVD's and more just to run the modern tires/wheels. The original wheels are no longer available. They go for about $25+ per pair on eBay. With those prices an alternative is necessary. So, I created an option that allows adapting the tires/wheels most of us already have in our tool boxes. Again, keeping cost down was the point. Since then I have found an alternative that allows keeping 100% of the stock RC10 suspension components. This comes by using Thunder Tiger rear wheels and Duratrax front wheels. They are dimensionally the same as the original wheels and readily available. My cars have all been converted.
Driving a vintage car is unlike driving a modern car in every way. For some, it is reliving the glory days and for others it's an opportunity to get more track time and run a car that's a completely different animal. Whatever the reason for running a vintage car, those who do enjoy it! The rules established are not written in stone and certainly not governed by any sanctioning body since vintage is not a recognized class. If someone feels there is a performance advantage to running a threaded shock body or a front shock that is .18" longer (but available) then come see me. Look at my car. Drive it. You will see that the modern parts on my car are there because they are available.
Although my own car uses carbon towers and threaded shocks (no other mods), I will build cars for Josh and Jeremy for the Spring Fling that will use fiberglass towers and smooth body 1.32/.71 shocks so there is no issue. Their cars will also be equipped with the Stealth slipper. It will be obvious (and should already be obvious by watching Ruffy) that there is NO performance advantage to a carbon tower or .18" longer shock.
02-02-2011, 04:37 PM
#51
Let me go on record saying that I too believe that there is no performance advantage, but if someone wants to say there is let's not debate about it, it is if anything very minimal.
I applaud Jeff for trying to build his cars as close to a stock RC10 as possible and despite the grumblings we sometimes hear about "Hybrid RC10" from time to time, we should probably think about what it takes to be able to continue to race/maintain not only a stock RC10 but also those that want to run their vintage Schumacher, vintage Losi, Vintage Traxxas and Vintage Tamiya 2WD cars with us together on the track.
In essence, Vintage racing should take us back in time to when things were a bit different from our youth. so let's all just have fun.
I applaud Jeff for trying to build his cars as close to a stock RC10 as possible and despite the grumblings we sometimes hear about "Hybrid RC10" from time to time, we should probably think about what it takes to be able to continue to race/maintain not only a stock RC10 but also those that want to run their vintage Schumacher, vintage Losi, Vintage Traxxas and Vintage Tamiya 2WD cars with us together on the track.
In essence, Vintage racing should take us back in time to when things were a bit different from our youth. so let's all just have fun.
02-02-2011, 05:08 PM
#52
Thank-you
I want to thank-you for getting me back into a r/c car that I love to own and drive.If someone has not tried to find a vintage r/c car you have no idea of what it takes. I have been buying parts for five months in six different states.I now own three well used (six gear transmission) r/c 10's. I hope to build two good cars at a cost of lets say equal to 4 factory team B4.1. and I still have to buy wheels and tires.
If it was not for Jeff Harris and his help(on-line) I don't think I could have done or would have done vintage cars (r/c 10). I do not think in any way or shape he or his cars are cheating. So I say until you have done it or try it, don't talk about things you have no idea about.( that last statement is for The person or persons who says Jeff is cheating!) Thanks again Jeff !
John Grant
If it was not for Jeff Harris and his help(on-line) I don't think I could have done or would have done vintage cars (r/c 10). I do not think in any way or shape he or his cars are cheating. So I say until you have done it or try it, don't talk about things you have no idea about.( that last statement is for The person or persons who says Jeff is cheating!) Thanks again Jeff !
John Grant
02-02-2011, 05:31 PM
#53
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (13)
The difference between my car and Ruffy's car this last weekend was 4 seconds, and I believe that was due to some lap traffic. His average time and "hero" lap was faster than mine, I just didn't get caught up with anything. I do remember seeing his car in the corner of my eye towards the end, and he was coming quick.
This class has resparked my intrest in the buggy class. I struggled with the B4 for quite some time, and traded it for this buggy I have now. I will say that this car is glued to the ground, and is a blast to drive.
Guys like Ruffy and Jeff work very hard to build a car and class that we can all enjoy. Thanks to Jeff and Ruffy, and I hope to have a great race again with you guys this Friday night.
This class has resparked my intrest in the buggy class. I struggled with the B4 for quite some time, and traded it for this buggy I have now. I will say that this car is glued to the ground, and is a blast to drive.
Guys like Ruffy and Jeff work very hard to build a car and class that we can all enjoy. Thanks to Jeff and Ruffy, and I hope to have a great race again with you guys this Friday night.
02-03-2011, 08:12 PM
#54
What about hand made parts? I usually cut towers, braces and bumpers by hand for my old RC10 (did it back in the day). Would this disqualify my car from being vintage? Let's keep in mind that the original RC10 was hand made.
And back in the day some people use long shock in front with aftermarket parts like A&L Towers. Using a .18 longer shock should not be a problem.
And back in the day some people use long shock in front with aftermarket parts like A&L Towers. Using a .18 longer shock should not be a problem.
02-12-2011, 04:28 PM
#55
Cool, just found this thread while paint was drying. 
I would say if they are close by eye to the stock dimensions, have at it. Things that keep costs down are ok with most of us. (The ones that want to race these cars to remember when things were more innocent and more fun!)
I am finally working on my car to make it better by adding the correct length shocks, the front shorties made it impossible to jump the car. I am also adding inline front axles and 25 or 30 degree front castor blocks. Haven't decided yet which to try first. As well as the second gen rear bulkhead so I have the updated inner camber link location and a notch if I want to move the rear arms forward for more bite...but I would be surprised if this car needs more rear traction.
Looking forward to the next race with it.
Before pic. I'll post after updates pic in a week.
Jim
W.E.D.
www.wedjim.com
I would say if they are close by eye to the stock dimensions, have at it. Things that keep costs down are ok with most of us. (The ones that want to race these cars to remember when things were more innocent and more fun!)
I am finally working on my car to make it better by adding the correct length shocks, the front shorties made it impossible to jump the car. I am also adding inline front axles and 25 or 30 degree front castor blocks. Haven't decided yet which to try first. As well as the second gen rear bulkhead so I have the updated inner camber link location and a notch if I want to move the rear arms forward for more bite...but I would be surprised if this car needs more rear traction.
Looking forward to the next race with it.
Before pic. I'll post after updates pic in a week.
Jim
W.E.D.
www.wedjim.com
02-12-2011, 05:01 PM
#56
Love that vintage paintjob Jim!!
Looks killer!
I need to find myself one of my old paintschemes I used to do back in the 80's and remake it today. This way the car and the paintjob look old school.
Looks killer!
I need to find myself one of my old paintschemes I used to do back in the 80's and remake it today. This way the car and the paintjob look old school.
02-12-2011, 06:02 PM
#57
Jim,
Ruffy and I use very similar setups. We both prefer the inner camber link mount in the rear, forward position for the rear mounts and 25 degree caster blocks. The problem is they only make 30 degree blocks now so like many other parts, eBay is your friend.
Let me know when you're going to the asylum again and I'll meet you there. You're welcome to drive my car and see if that's a good starting point for you. I think you'll like it
Ruffy and I use very similar setups. We both prefer the inner camber link mount in the rear, forward position for the rear mounts and 25 degree caster blocks. The problem is they only make 30 degree blocks now so like many other parts, eBay is your friend.
Let me know when you're going to the asylum again and I'll meet you there. You're welcome to drive my car and see if that's a good starting point for you. I think you'll like it
02-13-2011, 02:51 PM
#58
Jeff can you PM me some contact info for Atlas I'm looking for some of his gold aluminum for my RC10 build up.
Also I'll be tapping your brain for some parts and numbers in the coming weeks
I wont be making the race in april other than as a viewer but i'm making my brother in laws rc10 runable again
Also I'll be tapping your brain for some parts and numbers in the coming weeks
I wont be making the race in april other than as a viewer but i'm making my brother in laws rc10 runable again
02-13-2011, 05:02 PM
#59
Thanks Jeff, I really appreciate all the help you and Ruffy have given me getting this car going already. Lending me tires to run when I didn't have my wheels yet, set ups, etc.
I miss the days when I was at the track often and offering set up help a lot, lol.
My car was actually handling decent last race, just needed the shocks and some other minor tweaks. Steering and traction was pretty good, I was surprised. I was running the stock castor blocks(15 degrees?), rear arm mts back, the old rear bulkhead with the ballstud at the innermost top hole about a 1/2 inch shorter link then the new bulkhead offers, haha.
Should be leaps and bounds better next time. We hope to make it out next weekend, since Jeremys VE8 stuff will all be here in time for that. He has been jonesing' to run it.
I miss the days when I was at the track often and offering set up help a lot, lol.
My car was actually handling decent last race, just needed the shocks and some other minor tweaks. Steering and traction was pretty good, I was surprised. I was running the stock castor blocks(15 degrees?), rear arm mts back, the old rear bulkhead with the ballstud at the innermost top hole about a 1/2 inch shorter link then the new bulkhead offers, haha.
Should be leaps and bounds better next time. We hope to make it out next weekend, since Jeremys VE8 stuff will all be here in time for that. He has been jonesing' to run it.