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Old 08-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #61
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What brought all this up?

chuck
what the future holds...2018 right around the corner

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Man Enough about the motor doesnt matter its only the racer BS!
huh...
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:29 PM   #62
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It surprised me that The Classic is doing the handout motor thing, since it is the home track for TSR. I would think that if everything went handout for spec, why would I ever buy "the one" again? I have a hard time believing manufacturers are for this and not complaining.
Back in brushed days, you could buy the tuned motors from EA, Fantom and such, or you could just buy the regular old blister-pack. When I started going to events 25 years ago, getting 3 motors at each event, I never purchased one from a shop, just ran the old handouts, mostly.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:34 PM   #63
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Ill take that...makes sense

so in your opinion, will ROAR benchmark the spec motors like with 25.5

or will they drop the ball
I think they will end up like the 25.5 BUT, the 25.5 market has been primarily VTA and now recently F1. I think once the concept goes industry wide we'll see the manufactures look for the next loophole or advantage, after all it is racing.

I also think ROAR will drop the ball as far as plugging those loopholes. History says they will fail to pro-actively define the next step.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:43 PM   #64
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what the future holds...2018 right around the corner



huh...
Nevermind, It was a comment on the quote of a quote didnt hold up

This tread was moving at Lightspeed for awhile.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:55 PM   #65
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I think they will end up like the 25.5 BUT, the 25.5 market has been primarily VTA and now recently F1. I think once the concept goes industry wide we'll see the manufactures look for the next loophole or advantage, after all it is racing.

I also think ROAR will drop the ball as far as plugging those loopholes. History says they will fail to pro-actively define the next step.
and what then?....whats our next move?

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Nevermind, It was a comment on the quote of a quote didnt hold up

This tread was moving at Lightspeed for awhile.
lol...it really is
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:06 PM   #66
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so what do the big guns think about this?....the stock, or super stock racers that really make the class...what are you guys plan?...

are you willing to give up years of tuning and perfecting and building one of the biggest onroad classes in the country, to let it fall to the waste side of yet another "option" in a handout motor, or even a spec motor?...

you guys have the real say imo...I barely run 17.5 TC, and I think even less of 21.5 TC...and God forbid 25.5 TC....but I think your 50+ class followers should have a voice....

are you willing to take a shot at this new idea to level the playing field and cut motor cost and eliminate the motor war?....

or to just show a heck no, and resume racing as usual?....

we all know there is an issue, but we have to understand ROAR is our(ya'lls) #USVTA4Life for me...j/s..., ROAR is the active gov body for RC in the US... we have to assume they are going to help this situation and help us help our racing as a whole. Have some faith in ROAR and lets see what come out Sept 1st...

Im willing to wait, how about you
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:08 PM   #67
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one more thing...if you have a New Gen motor...it will still be fast come Oct, Nov,Dec, Jan......its not going to change that much that you will notice on the track
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:37 PM   #68
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First step in all of this is ROAR needs to actually define the classes again. Since 17.5 is being ran as prostock and no definitive answer has been made for stock. Some places are running 21.5 but paved nats is 25.5 stock with a handout motor
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:41 PM   #69
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First step in all of this is ROAR needs to actually define the classes again. Since 17.5 is being ran as prostock and no definitive answer has been made for stock. Some places are running 21.5 but paved nats is 25.5 stock with a handout motor
ROAR is probably going to be dropping the names Stock and pro stock. It will just be called wind Spec class (17.5 Spec) (21.5 Spec) etc. There is no such thing as a stock class anymore.

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Old 08-11-2017, 02:44 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
I think they will end up like the 25.5 BUT, the 25.5 market has been primarily VTA and now recently F1. I think once the concept goes industry wide we'll see the manufactures look for the next loophole or advantage, after all it is racing.

I also think ROAR will drop the ball as far as plugging those loopholes. History says they will fail to pro-actively define the next step.
Have you seen any of the loop holes in the current proposal? No one else has yet and we haven't seen them. But by all means if you find one please make ROAR aware now so that it can be plugged.

Part of the problem in the past is manufactures were left in the dark. This round of proposals has more feedback from manufactures (all in favor) than Ive ever seen.

Is it perfect? NO. Its also about 2 years too late but at least its an effort to go in the right direction.

EA
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:46 PM   #71
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I think 17.5 needs to remain stock....in offroad it still is...yeah yeah speed difference

the funny thing is most of the rest of the world think 17.5 is a joke...most other places run 13.5 or 10.5 as stock...and dont give me the crap about bigger tracks...we have some pretty boss tracks too...indoors and outdoors...

but we are going backwards...13.5 at the birth of brushless was considered stock or equal to 27T brush...now we are thinking about dialing it down another step to 21.5?.. and in the mean time, Mod TC doesnt get any love...hench no US World Champion as of late in Onroad...j/s
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:17 PM   #72
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Have you seen any of the loop holes in the current proposal? No one else has yet and we haven't seen them. But by all means if you find one please make ROAR aware now so that it can be plugged.
The inclusion of minimum resistance was an excellent step, and probably the most important, but there are still many more that can be taken-- none of which will adversely affect manufacturers, but will benefit racers in the future.

I have mentioned the following several times to the gentlemen at ROAR: Require that stators be symmetrical (non-directional); no electronics allowed in the motor other than the Hall sensors, an optional thermistor, and a bypass capacitor (to prevent the inclusion of dynamic timing in the motor). Doubtless there are many other items which can and should be addressed.

I first presented all of these ideas-- including minimum resistance rules-- 4+ years ago when I was the Technical Director. So far, only minimum resistance has been ratified.

As miller tyme said, ROAR does need to be proactive, not reactive.
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Last edited by howardcano; 08-12-2017 at 07:21 AM. Reason: Moved "non-skewed stators" from not-ratified to ratified.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:48 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
Have you seen any of the loop holes in the current proposal? No one else has yet and we haven't seen them. But by all means if you find one please make ROAR aware now so that it can be plugged.

Part of the problem in the past is manufactures were left in the dark. This round of proposals has more feedback from manufactures (all in favor) than Ive ever seen.

Is it perfect? NO. Its also about 2 years too late but at least its an effort to go in the right direction.

EA
I agree, no disrespect meant to the effort. But it's racing, make a rule, the manufactures WILL find something to gain an edge. Nothing is perfect and I feel the resistance spec is a good step, and also need to have a cutoff in approval per year. Maybe a late summer for the onroad season and late winter for outdoors. At least it would slow the cost down some too.

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The inclusion of minimum resistance was an excellent step, and probably the most important, but there are still many more that can be taken-- none of which will adversely affect manufacturers, but will benefit racers in the future.

I have mentioned the following several times to the gentlemen at ROAR: Require that stators be symmetrical (non-directional); no skewed stators; no electronics allowed in the motor other than the Hall sensors, an optional thermistor, and a bypass capacitor (to prevent the inclusion of dynamic timing in the motor). Doubtless there are many other items which can and should be addressed.

I first presented all of these ideas-- including the minimum resistance rules-- 4+ years ago when I was the Technical Director. So far, only minimum resistance has been ratified.

As miller tyme said, ROAR does need to be proactive, not reactive.
Yep, wondering when someone would figure dynamic timing out in the motor.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:01 PM   #74
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I think 17.5 needs to remain stock....in offroad it still is...yeah yeah speed difference

the funny thing is most of the rest of the world think 17.5 is a joke...most other places run 13.5 or 10.5 as stock...and dont give me the crap about bigger tracks...we have some pretty boss tracks too...indoors and outdoors...

but we are going backwards...13.5 at the birth of brushless was considered stock or equal to 27T brush...now we are thinking about dialing it down another step to 21.5?.. and in the mean time, Mod TC doesnt get any love...hench no US World Champion as of late in Onroad...j/s
I dont Know , I ve never raced there .
Do they have the same cross section of racers there . One of the tracks I go to there are kids 10-11 years to Some men in their Mid to Late 80s I dont think they want to race 13 or 10.5.
Isnt RC racing a rich mans game in Europe?
I could race the 13.5 outside but I prefer VTA.GT (and would like to do F1)

I have a first get 13.5 and it still a little faster then Some of my 27 turn Midnight II (lipo)
Ive tried all these motors in My old TF5 a few years ago at Leisure Hours on a practic night
The 27 turn was slower then a SP Gen3 21.5 but the 27 turn could easily out accelerate it.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:07 PM   #75
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All this talk about brushless, anyone looking for some hurricane golds? Have around 40 pairs...����
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