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Old 06-12-2017, 10:47 AM   #16
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Or tires with stronger sidewalls.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalsoft View Post
Well it is a solution to a problem that black CRC carpet brought. In the name of hauling ass each time we go race, the new carpet and tire compound gives the cars so much traction, that there is NOT a way to tune it out with suspension and stay competitive. If you try, you will have a setup that is not as fast. I have tried every wrenching technique ( roll center, shock weight, caster, camber, increase width, decrease width, increase wheel base, decrease wheel base etc ) and gluing the tires is the best option.

It is a new way to tune, and it is not going away in the foreseeable future. Now you have to learn how .045 of glue feels compared to .050 or .060

We are pushing these little cars to the absolute max of their capability.
Thing is I think you're right. I have a collection of tires given by fellow TC racers and most, if not all, have the front tires worn on the outside sidewall. They don't race on tracks with traction as high as you do and it's already an issue.

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it's a traction issue. To much traction. Convincing racers that they need less traction is a losing battle. However, I believe that is what's needed.
Keeping traction low would be great, car wear, development and driver stress would be lower. IMO of course.

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Or tires with stronger sidewalls.
Medial Pro had 1/10th and 1/8th tires made of solid race rubber(Medial Pro Tarmac II), no air gap, no insert, just rubber. I have one of those for 1/8th GT and they work "very well" so maybe they should make a comeback?
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:45 AM   #18
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Or tires with stronger sidewalls.
Now the question is, how much do you want your tires to cost. Right now, tires are just molded balloons.

have you seen what goes into "real" tires? between the belts, beads, carcasses, and tread and body materials?

.... I've thought about this quite a bit.

I have seen the 1/8 scale people put tape inside their tires to control balooning, effectively putting belts on their tire treads.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
Now the question is, how much do you want your tires to cost. Right now, tires are just molded balloons.

have you seen what goes into "real" tires? between the belts, beads, carcasses, and tread and body materials?

.... I've thought about this quite a bit.

I have seen the 1/8 scale people put tape inside their tires to control balooning, effectively putting belts on their tire treads.
Most of the competition tires in use are already belted.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:09 AM   #20
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i'm really only familiar with VTA, off road, and Mini rubber. :-) shows what I know. What sort of belting are they using?
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:59 AM   #21
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it's a traction issue. To much traction. Convincing racers that they need less traction is a losing battle. However, I believe that is what's needed.
Finally, someone that I agree with! Less traction and slower speeds where driver finesse is what I'd much rather see. Everyone else just wants slot cars without the slots.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:48 AM   #22
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Finally, someone that I agree with! Less traction and slower speeds where driver finesse is what I'd much rather see. Everyone else just wants slot cars without the slots.
Me too. Not sure how to accomplish lower traction now that the cat's out of the bag. E.g. too many tracks have the high grip carpet.

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Old 06-13-2017, 11:37 AM   #23
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Tires. Tires are how you do it. Spec tires.

Some good things that would come with spec low traction , racing. First, longer tire life, reducing running costs. Second, an emphasis on driving skill, with less traction you need to be more careful on the throttle, and braking. Third, a reduction on the "motor of the week", if you're limiting your car based on traction, the motor matters much less. Fourth, an empasis on chassis setup. Instead of seeking the most stable, and most consistant setup that won't flip, you'll be seeking the highest traction setup, even at the cost of some stabilty. "Fourth" would also lead to more interesting racing.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:00 PM   #24
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It doesn't have to be low traction. It just has to be less traction. You don't need drift cars everywhere. It's insane to me that any on road car should be able to traction roll. A slightly harder tire compound and no traction compound is all that is necessary. I'd actually like to see rear wheel drive 2wd tc style cars but too many people that live and die by the "it's no fun unless it's so fast that I can't see it anymore" crowd think it's a stupid idea. My old RC10DS was an awesomely fun car.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:20 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
It doesn't have to be low traction. It just has to be less traction. You don't need drift cars everywhere. It's insane to me that any on road car should be able to traction roll. A slightly harder tire compound and no traction compound is all that is necessary. I'd actually like to see rear wheel drive 2wd tc style cars but too many people that live and die by the "it's no fun unless it's so fast that I can't see it anymore" crowd think it's a stupid idea. My old RC10DS was an awesomely fun car.
Enforcing the no traction sauce would be nearly impossible. And that's the problem. I think any tire can be made to traction roll on the new CRC carpet with enough traction compound.

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Old 06-13-2017, 08:25 PM   #26
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It's easy to enforce. If anyone is caught saucing,
they are kicked out of the building for the rest of the day with no refund. If soneone cries, they were clearly a cheater anyways.
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Enforcing the no traction sauce would be nearly impossible. And that's the problem. I think any tire can be made to traction roll on the new CRC carpet with enough traction compound.

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Old 06-13-2017, 08:25 PM   #27
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Dp

Last edited by fredswain; 06-13-2017 at 08:26 PM. Reason: double post
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Old 06-14-2017, 12:27 AM   #28
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Our cars don't really traction roll, they roll simply because the tire sidewall is too weak. I am sure that if we had a tire with a stronger sidewall and current grip levels the cars wouldn't roll over.

Okay, I never raced on the new black carpet everybody seems to complain about, but even on our low grip asphalt outdoor track I find signs of the tire bead rolling about and this is a problem for pretty much everyone from what I have seen. You can see the tire peeling off the rim slowly around the outside. And we don't have anywhere near the grip expected on carpet. Like I said, bring back the foam.

Fredswain, I agree with your view, but in my neck of the woods any attempt to control speed (that is to quash motor of the week out of control spending) never had a chance. Last I counted there were two votes in favour of introducing a spec motor to the club. And without a strong spread of the sport to bring some outside regulation like in Europe or the US our clubs are pretty much dependent on what the local majority wants.

Luckily, the 1/8E on-road class has taken off.
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Old 06-14-2017, 07:29 AM   #29
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It's easy to enforce. If anyone is caught saucing,
they are kicked out of the building for the rest of the day with no refund. If soneone cries, they were clearly a cheater anyways.
What about cleaning tires? Do we prohibit this too?

Because if you don't, what do you allow as a cleaner?

Again, difficult to enforce.

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Old 06-14-2017, 07:54 AM   #30
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For racing, "buyout" rules works. If you think someones tires are better than yours, you buy them a set of wheels and tires, and they give you the set they're running. Save this buyout for just before the A-main.

Build your car for out of box tire performance, or you're gonna lose that main.
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