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Old 04-04-2017, 12:59 PM   #16
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Good points and well explained.
Those where called foam things, they were used indeed to keep dirt out of the ball stud and ball cup surfaces. Would use them again if I could make myself ones in other material.

I shim arms, hubs and axles to have minimal play and try to keep camber/toe slop maximum 0.5*, more than that and I can't seem to be satisfied when the car is on the set up station.

Also, I want less wheel wobble as I was surprised at how much my AE cars had and how good it felt afterwards. For me, less wheel motion in flex felt so solid I pursued those foam things and lubing the ball studs to have solid consistent handling (lubing was sort of a mistake with foam material, it turns quickly into sandpaper).
Back in the late 90's/early 2000's, we used to put O-rings on the ball studs, and then snap the ball cap on. The soft silicone rings worked well and didn't add any binding. Worth a try if you have some extras on hand.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:05 PM   #17
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Back in the late 90's/early 2000's, we used to put O-rings on the ball studs, and then snap the ball cap on. The soft silicone rings worked well and didn't add any binding. Worth a try if you have some extras on hand.
that's something I'm working on. A nice thing about o-rings is that you can order them in specific durometers. I also get this funny feeling that they'll start to bind in some weird ways. I'm looking more seriously at silicone hose cut into square edge slices..
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Old 04-04-2017, 02:51 PM   #18
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I believe Billy Sydor is the only one qualified to answer this topic.
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Old 04-04-2017, 03:46 PM   #19
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Zero slop is better for me in all cars, including my minis. Helps maximize tire contact patch. Shims, ballcup tolerance and superglue to remove hinge pin to arm slop.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:45 PM   #20
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Zero slop is better for me in all cars, including my minis. Helps maximize tire contact patch. Shims, ballcup tolerance and superglue to remove hinge pin to arm slop.
I'd like you to tell us about using superglue to suck up hinge pin slop. How do you do it?
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:39 AM   #21
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Put a tiny spec of superglue on a pin, and then apply to the holes of the suspension arm where slop has developed. Put very small amount to remove slop but not bind the arm.
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Old 04-30-2017, 10:30 AM   #22
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I read somewhere that Umino sets up Ronald volker's car with a bit of suspension slop. If it works for him, should be good enough for me.
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:44 PM   #23
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I read somewhere that Umino sets up Ronald volker's car with a bit of suspension slop. If it works for him, should be good enough for me.
Yep. I had a bit of a play with his car a couple of years ago and was surprised by the slop. I'd come from TRF where it was a "done thing" - probably from watching Groskamp videos.

When I asked, Ronald said to me "loose is fast, just make sure it's even"
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Old 04-30-2017, 04:55 PM   #24
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Masami's dad built a lot of slop into the cars he raced.. excessive amounts of slop. He did this to make cars easier to drive, dont be hung up on having everything tight. Weve all driven someone's old worn out car and said damn.. this thing drives better than mine
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:59 AM   #25
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So, I am very far from being an expert on RC set up but I have a bit of experience in full scale race cars based on production cars. A lot of time and money is spent to have as little compliance in the suspension as possible while also making sure the suspension is free to move...ie. removing "sticktion".

I for one think shimming is important to get a car that is consistent and have done this on my old TA-03 and F201 as well as on the TT-02 that is being built currently. I just don't see how shimming can hurt the performance of a car as long as it is not causing binding in the suspension.

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Old 05-01-2017, 08:46 AM   #26
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Biggest difference is, we don't sit and drive inside the RC cars. Shimming out all the slop is a dogma people follow, but at the end of the day, racing is about results. Masami and Ronald's track records speak for themselves. Do you think they haven't tried shimming out slop? Confirmation bias is a bitch, isnt it.

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So, I am very far from being an expert on RC set up but I have a bit of experience in full scale race cars based on production cars. A lot of time and money is spent to have as little compliance in the suspension as possible while also making sure the suspension is free to move...ie. removing "sticktion".

I for one think shimming is important to get a car that is consistent and have done this on my old TA-03 and F201 as well as on the TT-02 that is being built currently. I just don't see how shimming can hurt the performance of a car as long as it is not causing binding in the suspension.

my $0.02

Cheers,
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:51 AM   #27
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I wonder if it's a reflection on skill. Masami, very well could drive with a half inch of steering deadband.

My car, goes much straighter if I use rubber buffers to suck the slop out of my steering linkages.

... maybe it's worth directly testing? double blind? I could do the swap from "no slop" to "normal slop" in all of about 10 minutes on any given car.
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Old 05-01-2017, 01:36 PM   #28
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Newer racers who might be reading this thread need to know that there is a difference between normal play in the moving parts of the car and excessive slop. Because most r/c cars weigh so little, they need to have at least a small amount of play or "slop" so that the moving parts and/or suspension can work properly.

Before you set out to eliminate all slop in any r/c car, make sure you understand how the suspension/moving parts are supposed to work. Make sure to test those parts under a load after you remove any slop to make sure they are still working freely.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:08 PM   #29
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Free movement is critical. Losing or gaining a 5 degrees of camber or toe.. well that's something else in my book. :-) I always err on free movement versus the alternative. If it doesn't "flop" it's to tight.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:11 PM   #30
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Intentionally leaving the slop is a huge difference. It's not like they forgot to shim out the slop, while being meticulous with everything else. We can argue all we want about it, but worlds level pros have wins to back it up.

According to theory, front spool is not "supposed" to work, yet it became the standard.

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I wonder if it's a reflection on skill. Masami, very well could drive with a half inch of steering deadband.

My car, goes much straighter if I use rubber buffers to suck the slop out of my steering linkages.

... maybe it's worth directly testing? double blind? I could do the swap from "no slop" to "normal slop" in all of about 10 minutes on any given car.
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